Allison Baden-Clay, GENERAL CASE DISCUSSION THREAD -#31

[Bayside]

Welcome and what weird timing.
I just gave up reading over there, they seem to get some good info but it's just too hard to find. So much so it's made me sleepy :seeya:

Sounds like you Sqiz and Greg may get along well ; )

I agree, I have read it at times but it is too hard to follow.

 

[Berry]

He is due to appear in the Brisbane Magistrates Court on July 9 for committal mention

http://m.news.com.au/QLD/pg/0/fi1625385.htm

Thanks Marly. In this article I read Davis comment:

"Mr Davis said the only injury revealed a chip to her bottom left eye tooth.

"There are no cuts or wounds from which she could bleed," he said."

But prosecution had previously asserted in their affidavit:

"The blood came back as belonging to Allison, the court was told."

This is the 'twist' I find hard to fit.....

 

[KG1]

No update yet for Monday's Court Law List:

http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/__external/CourtsLawList/Brisbane.htm

Won't the mention be at the Magistrates Court rather than the Supreme court? It was only for the Bail application that the Supreme Court was the court of jurisdiction. As this is a mention only, I would imagine it is a lower court matter. The trial will be in the Suprem Court. Happy to stand corrected.

 

[Nads]

Thanks Marly. In this article I read Davis comment:

"Mr Davis said the only injury revealed a chip to her bottom left eye tooth.

"There are no cuts or wounds from which she could bleed," he said."

But prosecution had previously asserted in their affidavit:

"The blood came back as belonging to Allison, the court was told."

This is the 'twist' I find hard to fit.....

People can bleed from lots of things besides cuts and wounds though.

 

[Berry]

Won't the mention be at the Magistrates Court rather than the Supreme court? It was only for the Bail application that the Supreme Court was the court of jurisdiction. As this is a mention only, I would imagine it is a lower court matter. The trial will be in the Suprem Court. Happy to stand corrected.

Yes and correct I agree.......hope the alleged murderer HAS to be there and face all....says he is due to appear....but "precious" of course gets his own way so we never know...ggrrrrr

 

[ozazure]

Does anyone have a link to the actual affidavit?

 

[Keyboredom]

Bit irrelevant, but pastor Ian looks like he would fit in well with the Baden-clay boys brigade...
http://www.northreach.org.au/about-us/whos-on-the-team
'ooooh, Betty, put that out in the morning'. Lucky he has god on his side

 

[Berry]

Does anyone have a link to the actual affidavit?

No honey, the quoter on aussiecriminals.com and the one here have not ever answered repeated questions for that link....sorry. Frustrating too....

 

[KG1]

Sorry Sica case again, so sad for this poor lady : (

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/no-end-to-shirleys-pain/story-fncmmdph-1226418339181

This terrible crime has taken away so much from this family. These poor parents and remaining daughter. No amount of years can take away their collective pain. Shirley Singh's victim impact statement was so heart rendering and powerful. I just do not know how she goes on, also their father and sister.

I am so glad that 9 members of the jury came to court for the sentencing - they will never wonder if they made the right decisions. They were horrified and upset when they hear the true nature of Max Sica, before he killed the Singh children. And remember friends, this man is not mad, just bad to the point of evil. I doubt that he will win any appeal against convictions.

When you eliminate every other random possibility in a circumstantial case, you are left with only one possibility - the charged person committed the crime. Motive can be absent, or unknown, but eliminating all other possibilities, will usually get justice, beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Sheerluck Holmes]

“On Sunday 22 April 2012, police obtained a further Forensic Procedure Order to examine the defendant with the assistance of the Forensic Medical Officer.

“Immediately prior to attending the police station for examination, the defendant was involved in a single vehicle traffic accident in which his vehicle struck a concrete wall at the Indooroopilly Shopping Centre.

Hadn't realised that he was due to attend for examination just before the crash. That seals it for me - guilty - so obvious he didnt want to attend and was hoping for some injuries to the face to explain away his injuries.

Does anyone have a link for this at all, I got confused with his attendance at the Police Station as it was stated in the timeline on Courier Mail that he had gone to Indooroopilly Police Station on the Saturday 21 April 2012 and was phtographed with scratches on his face and torso etc and then he had the car accident on the 22 April 2012 which just didnt add up to me.

 

[DrWatson]

Thanks Marly. In this article I read Davis comment:

"Mr Davis said the only injury revealed a chip to her bottom left eye tooth.

"There are no cuts or wounds from which she could bleed," he said."

But prosecution had previously asserted in their affidavit:

"The blood came back as belonging to Allison, the court was told."

This is the 'twist' I find hard to fit.....

We know she had a chipped tooth. If that were caused by a blow with something hard (unlikely to be a fist) then I'm a bit surprised that there was no split lip as well.

If a blow to the front of the face caused a nosebleed, they can be the source of quite a deal of blood, and would be consistent with those photos of the Luminol tests in the car. Just one possibility. No external cut or wound, but plenty of blood.

But - another question comes to mind.... if the blood was enough to contaminate the back of the car and show up on the Luminol test - then WHERE was the injury (whatever it was) caused? I would have thought that a decent nose bleed, for example, would cause even more blood at the original site of the attack, and that no matter how carefully the clean up job was carried out, this too would show up on a Luminol test.

So, thinking logically, if that really was Allison's blood in the back of the car, then there almost certainly would have to be more of the same at the actual attack site, plus possibly drips etc if the body was carried to the car.

Of course, the other possibility is that the attack was somewhere very close to the car - maybe a blow to the face to get her into the car - alive (conscious or otherwise) then driven to either Kholo Creek, or the scout camp at Tyamolum, where she died by whatever cause was determined by the autopsy - assuming they DID find a cause.

Still a lot of unknowns - let's hope the police have a lot more knowns....

 

[summer_breeze]

Everyone,

I have started a thread for you in the Crimes in the News forum for the Max Sica trial. Please take the discussion about this case to the below link!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8119398#post8119398"]Australia - Max Sica Trial - Brisbane - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


Thank you in advance!

~Summer_Breeze

 

[Bayside]

Sorry to hear about your Nan Bayside, i hope she gets home to have that scotch

Thanks, we visited her earlier and she has improved a lot. A nurse came by and asked did she want to go for a walk and I joked only if he was going to walk to the pub. Nan sparks up and says hell yeah if he is walking her to the pub lol.

 

[marlywings]

Does anyone have a link for this at all, I got confused with his attendance at the Police Station as it was stated in the timeline on Courier Mail that he had gone to Indooroopilly Police Station on the Saturday 21 April 2012 and was phtographed with scratches on his face and torso etc and then he had the car accident on the 22 April 2012 which just didnt add up to me.

'Taking the fifth': The case against alleged wife-killer Gerard Baden-Clay
June 27, 2012.


April 21, 2012

Mr Baden-Clay voluntarily attended the Indooroopilly Police Station with his lawyers and voluntarily provided a DNA sample and allowed police to take photos of his body.

Scratches and abrasions on his chest, torso and neck were photographed.

April 22, 2012

Mr Baden-Clay was involved in an accident on the way to Indooroopilly police station. Police allege there no brake marks at the scene and Mr Baden-Clay refused to answer questions about the crash.

They allege the crash was staged to "mask injuries or to cause self-injury".

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz1zq5sMNCt

 

[Bayside]

Bay, I say that this morning about WI and in fact I haven't been around much either.

Your gran sounds lovely.......

Thanks, she sure is one of a kind. I think a young doctor was surprised when he asked this sweet looking 98 year old a bunch of questions including who was the Prime minister of Australia.

She answered him that she didnt give a *advertiser censored** about the Prime Minister as she had enough problems of her own trying to get out of there and go home lol.

 

[Berry]

We know she had a chipped tooth. If that were caused by a blow with something hard (unlikely to be a fist) then I'm a bit surprised that there was no split lip as well.

If a blow to the front of the face caused a nosebleed, they can be the source of quite a deal of blood, and would be consistent with those photos of the Luminol tests in the car. Just one possibility. No external cut or wound, but plenty of blood.

But - another question comes to mind.... if the blood was enough to contaminate the back of the car and show up on the Luminol test - then WHERE was the injury (whatever it was) caused? I would have thought that a decent nose bleed, for example, would cause even more blood at the original site of the attack, and that no matter how carefully the clean up job was carried out, this too would show up on a Luminol test.

So, thinking logically, if that really was Allison's blood in the back of the car, then there almost certainly would have to be more of the same at the actual attack site, plus possibly drips etc if the body was carried to the car.

Of course, the other possibility is that the attack was somewhere very close to the car - maybe a blow to the face to get her into the car - alive (conscious or otherwise) then driven to either Kholo Creek, or the scout camp at Tyamolum, where she died by whatever cause was determined by the autopsy - assuming they DID find a cause.

Still a lot of unknowns - let's hope the police have a lot more knowns....

Yes agree, well, to unknown bits... We did read that the blood was one smear and one drop on the floor....so do that logic medically doc .....?????

 

[Berry]

They allegedly found a "blood smear" in the rear of the vehicle and a strand of blonde hair.

Investigators alleged that the smear was "a contact smear" and resulted in "a further droplet of blood falling below the smear onto the floor of the vehicle". Police allege the blood was identified as Mrs Baden-Clay's, but examinations into the hair were continuing.


Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...d-badenclay-20120626-210bz.html#ixzz1zq8ZEEq7

 

[Berry]

So, IMO the chipped tooth causing inside bleeding in cheek and saliva oozing this entering vehicle as a dead person could cause the smear of blood and head over edge of seat then drops a bit more on floor of vehicle.

 

[Berry]

QPS are using this as proof her body was moved by car..hence interfering with corpse

 

[Nads]

I think there was either a lot of blood in the car or a lot of smearing of it, or a lot of bleach, judging from the luminol photo.

It looked like there might have been more on a car mat that was removed. And also the luminol showed up on the handles that you use to move the back seats up and down.