Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #39

[alioop]

Frankly, I don't think there would be any prospects of him getting bail for the same reasons as the judge originally gave, being a flight risk and interference with witnesses. I also think that they would not be wasting money on another bail application at this stage when they will need every cent for the committal.
So have no idea if the Baden-Powell matter has anything to do with the BC's.

 

[alioop]

Just got lucky on a supreme court internet search about the Baden-Powell matter. It is not a typo in the name. A person with the surname Baden-Powell has made an application to the court but I don't know what about. I am not going to name the person for privacy reasons but I can say I have not heard of the name previously. Also the lawyers for the person are specialist compensation lawyers such as for personal injury. So I think it is unrelated to GBC.

 

[alioop]

Thanks Whitechapel, I have done my best to answer your questions. I have answered in capitals to make my answers easier to see.

I have been thinking about the committal hearing and any trial that may follow and came up with a few questions, that perhaps others may also be wondering about...


Is the witness list public information? I DON'T THINK SO. THE PERSON I SPOKE TO AT THE MAGISTRATES COURT SAID THEY DIDN'T THINK SO.

Does the defence have to provide a witness list for the committal? THE DEFENCE DOESN'T PRESENT EVIDENCE AT A COMMITTAL, ONLY THE PROSECUTION. SO IT IS ONLY THE PROSECUTION WITNESSES THAT HAVE BEEN AGREED TO THE PROSECUTION THAT WILL BE ALLOWED TO BE CROSS EXAMINED BY THE DEFENCE, ABOUT 43 WITNESSES.

Can witnesses for the prosecution be added to the list later (after committal but before trial)? YES BOTH SIDES CAN ADD WITNESSES

I understand it would not be wise for the defence to call up any witnesses close to the accused as they may have negative information that has not been given in statements. CORRECT, BUT THIS IS REALLY JUST RELEVANT TO THE TRIAL NOT THE COMMITTAL.

But if I were a jury member, this would make me suspicious that they are so close to the case, but are not willing to say anything under oath and risk of cross examination to defend the accused (possibly because they may have something to hide) YES POSSIBLY

Answering my own question, but I suppose that officially a jury member would not be allowed to take this into consideration (should only consider what is said in the court?)CORRECT, THEY CAN'T INFER THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE INCLUDING THE ACCUSED DOESN'T TESTIFY FOR THE DEFENCE THAT THEY HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE OR IN THE CASE OF THE ACCUSED, THAT THEY ARE GUILTY.

I understand it is their right not to give statements but can NBC/EBC be called as witnesses for the prosecution (say to explain the facetime call)YES THEY CAN BE SERVED WITH A SUPBOENA WHICH IS AN ORDER OF THE COURT MADE AT THE REQUEST OF A PARTY TO ATTEND TO COURT TO PRODUCE DOCUMENTS OR GIVE EVIDENCE. IF THEY DON'T ATTEND THEY CAN BE ARRESTED AND BROUGHT BEFORE THE COURT. HOWEVER IF ANY OF THE BC'S WERE GIVEN A SUPBOENA THEY MUST ATTEND COURT AND I THINK THEY WOULD CLAIM THE PRIVILEGE OF SELF INCRIMINATION. IF THEY DIDN'T CLAIM SUCH A PRIVILEGE OR IT WAS REFUSED BY THE COURT, THEN THEY CAN BE FOUND IN CONTEMPT OF COURT AND PUT IN JAIL FOR A SHORT TIME, PERHAPS OVERNIGHT. EXCEPT PERHAPS FOR ASKING NBC ABOUT THE FACETIME CALL, I DON'T THINK THE PROSECUTION WOULD BOTHER ABOUT IT.

Perhaps you can not be called as a witness if you have not made a statement? NO, ANYONE CAN BE GIVEN A SUPBOENA.

You can see I am confused about this! THATS OK, IT IS CONFUSING.

Hoping for for some answers to help clear up my confusion.

 

[DrWatson]

Another excellent clarification, Alioop - thanks.

 

[whitechapel]

Another excellent clarification, Alioop - thanks.

DITTO - Thank you Alioop - Much clearer now.

 

[whitechapel]

Thanks Whitechapel, I have done my best to answer your questions. I have answered in capitals to make my answers easier to see.

HOWEVER IF ANY OF THE BC'S WERE GIVEN A SUPBOENA THEY MUST ATTEND COURT AND I THINK THEY WOULD CLAIM THE PRIVILEGE OF SELF INCRIMINATION.

If they refused to answer on the grounds of self incrimination, this would not look good for the accused, who is claiming innocence.

I was hoping that by now there would have been more arrests (accomplices before or after the fact)

Do you think (personal opinion only) that no more arrests atm means the case is not strong enough to implicate others?

 

[Makara]

Good questions Whitechapel and great answers Alioop, thank you. I was under the impression that if someone is charged with contempt, they face a sentence of life in jail. I was thinking that if any of the BC clan lied on the witness stand or refused to answer questions put to them, they would be locked up. Wishful thinking on my part I suppose.

MOO.

 

[Makara]

I haven't seen the document/list in question, but Baden-Powell isn't the same as Baden-Clay. Same common origin, perhaps, and may well be related. But I don't know who the Baden-Powell would be in this case. Alioop has seen the list, I think - any clues there?

And if it IS to do with the GBC case - why are they using the Baden-Powell name?

Because the name Overland was taken. Sorry Doc, I think I need sleep. :blushing:

 

[alioop]

if they refused to answer on the grounds of self incrimination, this would not look good for the accused, who is claiming innocence. You are right, it doesn't look good but doesn't prove anything. At trial, the jury woud be sent out of the court room so the judge can determine if they can claim this privilege of self incrimination. The jury would be instructed not to infer guilt from a claim of self incrimination by family members of the accused. It is up to the prosecution to prove their case, not for the accused to prove anything.

I was hoping that by now there would have been more arrests (accomplices before or after the fact)

do you think (personal opinion only) that no more arrests atm means the case is not strong enough to implicate others?

yes i don't think there is enough evidence at this stage to charge anyone else.

good questions whitechapel and great answers alioop, thank you. I was under the impression that if someone is charged with contempt, they face a sentence of life in jail. I was thinking that if any of the bc clan lied on the witness stand or refused to answer questions put to them, they would be locked up. Wishful thinking on my part i suppose. Contempt of the court is different to perjury. Perjury is more serious and attracts a penalty of up to 14 years in jail. Contempt generally is punished by a short term of imprisonment, and or a fine.

Moo.

 

[Curiousasacat]

It's a bit silly really but I had wanted to save my 1000th post for Allison's thread.
Instead I used it over at Sarah Cafferkey's thread,which is ok.

So here my 1010th post is dedicated to Allison's justice.

It's coming Allsion, a little while longer and your day in court will come.

Thanks so much in particular to Alioop...What would we do without you. xx

 

[alicat]

Do you think this is the case you guys were talking about on Friday -

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ng-breast-cancer/story-e6freoof-1226520741660

 

[Curiousasacat]

Do you think this is the case you guys were talking about on Friday -

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ng-breast-cancer/story-e6freoof-1226520741660

It's very possible. Good work on that one.

 

[alioop]

Do you think this is the case you guys were talking about on Friday -

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ng-breast-cancer/story-e6freoof-1226520741660

Seeing it is in MSM, yes that is the same lady. It is her application that was on Friday. So it is nothing to do with GBC.

Good sleuthing alicat.

 

[alicat]

Anyone seen Kholo Creek bridge lately? Does anyone want to get together some time and make it prettier again? With all the rain and strong winds it's looking a little drab

We might have to cycle though as there's now the sign that says 'no stopping or turning for the next 500 metres.'

 

[Indromum]

Anyone seen Kholo Creek bridge lately? Does anyone want to get together some time and make it prettier again? With all the rain and strong winds it's looking a little drab

We might have to cycle though as there's now the sign that says 'no stopping or turning for the next 500 metres.'

Sounds like a plan. I haven't visited for about a month, but have some flowers in my car for the next time. I might do a quick round of the fake flower shops to get some more if they are looking bedraggled out there.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Sleuthis-maximus]

I wouldnt mind helping with that. I went to Brookfield recently and I couldnt stop thinking about how tragic this is. I really feel for Allison and her family.

 

[Elspeth]

I couldn't find Friday's law list on line so I dug Friday's paper out of my rubbish bin and yes you are right Woof. I have it in front of me and it is in the callover list for applications to the Supreme Court at 10 am. Baden-Powell v State of Queensland. These matters are usually consents, adjournments, bail applications and short contested matters. They are mostly non criminal matters. Some of these matters take 5 minutes, some up to about 2 hours.

Very interesting indeed!

Alioop...I saw the Baden-Powell case in today's Courier Mail and wondered if there was a family connection to GBC but had forgotten his name was Baden-Clay...

 

[alioop]

Hi Elspeth, whether they have some common ancestry is in my opinion not something we should be sleuthing.

 

[Elspeth]

Hi Elspeth, whether they have some common ancestry is in my opinion not something we should be sleuthing.

My apologies alioop, I wasn't looking for common ancestry at all...I simply saw the heading/name in the newspaper and thought initially it may have been relating to GBC's case as I had forgotten he was Baden-Clay not Baden-Powell...

 

[alioop]

No worries Elspeth.