Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #41

[emirates1957]

Brilliantly said.

 

[marlywings]

Wondering too, how the funds are going, seeing as there is another big hearing coming up. Time for another desperate email to round up some cash to help prove poor big brothers innocence. maybe?

"To: Our family and friends
From: Ian and Olivia Walton
Subject: PLEASE HELP"


I've just re-read parts of that revolting email, and I must confess that where I said in a previous post that not one of the BC clan had ever cried out for the police to find the real perpetrator of this crime, Olivia did actually, as the closing statement of that email. (not that it was ever meant for the greater publics' eyes?)
So, by mid June, one member of that family appealed for the REAL murderer to be found.

Obsessor....re that email...a gazillion posts on pages before & following this one...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176053&page=41

 

[Obsessor]

Thanks Marly, I was hoping to find Olivias quote somewhere but couldn't find it on regular msm.
Just wanted to give her the credit for having stated ONCE, at least, that they, (Ian and herself) hoped police could find the REAL perpetrator of this awful deed, once Gerard was acquitted.

Many thanks for tracking it down.

Obsessor....re that email...a gazillion posts on pages before & following this one...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176053&page=41

 

[GEANIE]

Can you imagine what might have been going through GBC's mind when he was planning to kill Allison and scoop enough insurance money to rid himself of debts?

This cold, cold, emotionally void man, whom had tormented every aspect of Allisons being- (her emotional well-being, her mental well-being, her financial well-being, her right to feel proud in the community, her right to feel loved by her husband), saw fit to steal her life from her and her 3 little girls, in order to set up the next phase of his existence.

He was totally prepared to accept and revel in the position of grieving widower.

He would have planned to lay low, for the briefest period of time, allowing the public to identify with him as the grieving widower, who is now struggling to raise three young children and manage a business that is thriving and growing (miraculously) amidst the decline experienced all around him, but then, within a few short months, he would have fallen into the soothing arms of dear, always there, Toni, who would have been quietly rallying around, offering Gerard support, and then, to everyone's suprise, and joy, the two would find love amongst the tragedy, and everyone would be happy for them at last.

I can just imagine him thinking this.
I can also imagine him being so confident that this would all work, that he would be in complete disbelief to be in the situation he now finds himself.


I just hope this case helps people to better recognise the dangers of these type of people - the ones without feelings.... the narcissists, the sociopaths and whatever other ones there are that encompass this type of being.
These people are so dangerous.
They dont care!

If anyone is with or knows of anyone who is spending their life with someone that is insincere, hiding the truth, living the lie, different behind closed doors, violent, controlling, manipulative, cruel, we owe it to them and to Allison to help them get away, or get away ourselves.
Dont wait until its too late.
If it seems wrong, it is wrong.
If it seems screwed, it is screwed.
Act now.
We owe it to ourselves and to the memory of Allison.

I believe this is the legacy of the beautiful Allison Baden-Clay. It is for me.

Here is another case if any one interested,,,,a book,,,,,,'Perfect Stranger' by Kay Schubach..very typical of how women get drawn into this type of man...and give everything for them....why can they not see the danger....Kay survived......WAKE UP GIRLS.....there are men out there to do you over.....
And some women to do you guys over too.....anyone remember Katherine Knight....what she did was beyound belief......I have been to the house where she butchered her boyfriend, cut his penis off and threw it in the front yard.....then chopped his head off, skinned his body and was stewing his head in a pot to make soup....it in a pot on the hot plate....when police arrived....meanwhile she had cooked steaks from his buttocks and dished it up for his kids to eat for dinner...........Evil woman....jealous and Nuts....

True story.....I drive past where she used to live once a week...funny thing the place has never sold.......wonder why!!!!!!!!

 

[Obsessor]

Here is another case if any one interested,,,,a book,,,,,,'Perfect Stranger' by Kay Schubach..very typical of how women get drawn into this type of man...and give everything for them....why can they not see the danger....Kay survived......WAKE UP GIRLS.....there are men out there to do you over.....
And some women to do you guys over too.....anyone remember Katherine Knight....what she did was beyound belief......I have been to the house where she butchered her boyfriend, cut his penis off and threw it in the front yard.....then chopped his head off, skinned his body and was stewing his head in a pot to make soup....it in a pot on the hot plate....when police arrived....meanwhile she had cooked steaks from his buttocks and dished it up for his kids to eat for dinner...........Evil woman....jealous and Nuts....

True story.....I drive past where she used to live once a week...funny thing the place has never sold.......wonder why!!!!!!!!

White collar, blue collar, male, female, it matters not. They are the wolves in grandmothers clothing. Very deceiving, and very good at it, and also good at hiding who they really are for a very long time.
There are plenty of them out there, and the big lessons are to trust your gut instincts when something seems not right, and to have enough confidence in yourself to know its ok to walk away if things are not right.
MOO MOO MOO

(absolutely no disrespect to Allison, who's only mistake was staying and trying to make it work, but sometimes that isn't the answer. More of us need to know its ok to admit it didn't work) again MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

That date will be 13/03/13 - omens, perhaps?

Also, just out of interest, I don't know if anyone has noticed, but the prosecuting counsel in the re-trial of Jayant Patel is none other than Peter Davis - the defending counsel for GBC.

Busy boys, some of these barristers. And I still wonder who is bankrolling the GBC defence team... they would not be coming cheaply!

Jumping off your post Dr W ... and please excuse me showing my ignorance with legal matters again, but a person can be a Crown Prosecutor and a defence barrister at the same time? I understand that is exactly what Peter Davis is, but I always thought they had to work on one side or the other. Would that not make people a little concerned about potential conflicts of interest or potential bias from case to case?

 

[alioop]

Perhaps I can suggest a reason South Aussie. Its about costs and the govt doesn't want to pay to employ full time senior barristers. It would cost too much. It is cheaper to employ on a job by job basis, the senior barristers they need to appear in court to represent the Crown to prosecute people charged with serious crimes.
Any lawyer taking on a matter has to determine that they have no conflict of interest that precludes them from acting for their potential client.

Just because for eg Peter Davis has represented an accused person does not mean he can't represent the Crown and prosecute in a totally different case.

The benefit is that there is a number of senior barristers with wide experience in criminal matters available for the government to hire on top of their full time employed lawyers.

 

[Humdinger]

This case is sounding more and more like Bob Harrod's. All about the money. And now we have an Australian link there too.....well, just wanted to drop in and say you're doing a great job guys.

Zwiebel, good to see you in here! This is the case that originally brought me to WS and Bob's case is the first one I'm now following that's not Australian!

 

[SouthAussie]

Perhaps I can suggest a reason South Aussie. Its about costs and the govt doesn't want to pay to employ full time senior barristers. It would cost too much. It is cheaper to employ on a job by job basis, the senior barristers they need to appear in court to represent the Crown to prosecute people charged with serious crimes.
Any lawyer taking on a matter has to determine that they have no conflict of interest that precludes them from acting for their potential client.

Just because for eg Peter Davis has represented an accused person does not mean he can't represent the Crown and prosecute in a totally different case.

The benefit is that there is a number of senior barristers with wide experience in criminal matters available for the government to hire on top of their full time employed lawyers.

Thanks for this info alioop. Interesting. I certainly can see the practicality and benefit of the Crown’s contracting of senior barristers on a case by case basis.

I guess I struggle a bit in believing that a person can keep changing hats like this, and can still consistently and always maintain an even perspective in each role. But evidently it is believed that they can. Maybe that is why senior barristers are senior barristers, they have more logical minds

While the Crown is benefiting from the wide experience of the defence barrister, the defence barrister is also benefiting by gaining more experience in prosecution and this said experience then expanding his skills and popularity in his private law business, I would think.

 

[Liadan]

He was in to futures trading (top step) with a maxed out credit card and a business that would have been seriously affected by the flooding. He gave TM the deadline which corresponds to the first day of the new financial year. No doubt in my mind/opinion that he would have been working those $ figures like a rubic's cube with his financial advisor.

His mistress Toni McHugh allegedly told police that Mr Baden-Clay had told her he would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".

http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/badenclay-was-in-dire-financial-position-police-allege-20120626-2102n.html

July 1 was Allisons Birthday as well - but that probably slipped his mind.

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry … this has been turning over in my mind …. guess I hadn’t really had cause to think about it before.

This document shows Danny Boyle as “Consultant Crown Prosecutor, Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions”. So presumably Danny is also a senior barrister with a private practice who contracts to the Crown, although I can’t find anything that specifically says that he has a private practice.

http://files.qls.com.au/DVD/120503D.pdf

So, in essence, any trial that GBC may be committed to will be tried by two independent senior barristers who are both highly experienced in prosecutorial methods and thinking, as well as defence methods and thinking. One whose client happens to be the Crown, the other whose client happens to be the accused.

Could be quite a competitive trial!

 

[alioop]

I think that Danny Boyle is employed full time as a prosecutor. I couldn't find anything to suggest he has a private practice.

 

[LadyBird1]

July 1 was Allisons Birthday as well - but that probably slipped his mind.

His mistress Toni McHugh allegedly told police that Mr Baden-Clay had told her he would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".

Liadan, That's a terrible thing to say. Terrible, tragic, and true.
I failed to recognize the significance of that date. Missed it amongst all the other abominable things.
Of course he knew Allison's birthday.
Did he care so little that for Allison that he even used her Birthday to define his newfound freedom for TMcH?
Good heavens! I figured (judging by the diary entries) that GBC treated Allison like a bucket if dirt, and had done so for quite some time. Like he was slowly killing her in life, deliberately, relentlessly suffocating the very life out of her.
But this; using Allison's birthday date, (to announce his freedom) about tops it.

Another proof positive of pre-meditated. IMO.

 

[alioop]

Alioop, what happens to all the people who are owed money by GBC now? Is there any push for him to file for bankruptcy at this stage, or is everything frozen until there is a decision made either way?

Good question to raise Obby. Those creditors can send a letter of demand for any debt that is overdue for payment. They have 6 years to file a court claim from the date the debt was due for payment. For now they would be sitting back and waiting to see what happens with the criminal charges as the money from the life insurances also hinges on the outcome.

GBC is unlikely to make a decision about bankruptcy until the results of the criminal charges are known. Bankruptcy can occur by the person filing for bankruptcy or a creditor can start bankruptcy proceedings. I am sure that some of the creditors would have obtained their own legal advice.

 

[GEANIE]

His mistress Toni McHugh allegedly told police that Mr Baden-Clay had told her he would "sort out his financial situation and they would be together by 1 July 2012".

Liadan, That's a terrible thing to say. Terrible, tragic, and true.
I failed to recognize the significance of that date. Missed it amongst all the other abominable things.
Of course he knew Allison's birthday.
Did he care so little that for Allison that he even used her Birthday to define his newfound freedom for TMcH?
Good heavens! I figured (judging by the diary entries) that GBC treated Allison like a bucket if dirt, and had done so for quite some time. Like he was slowly killing her in life, deliberately, relentlessly suffocating the very life out of her.
But this; using Allison's birthday date, (to announce his freedom) about tops it.

Another proof positive of pre-meditated. IMO.

It would have just been another sick, sick thing for him to do.....if he announced to Allison that he was going leave her on her birthday........that's how they put you down....all part of mental abuse and making one feel worthless...so it's your birthday.......'Business as Usual' I'll be out of here with my lover!!!!:banghead:

Hell on the way to heaven.......for Allison.

 

[Obsessor]

Thanks Alioop. Just wondering too, do the gentlemans agreements stand up in court? Do they carry the same weight as a more formal loan agreement? I presume there was something written and signed between the two parties at some stage- some form of contract??

I wonder if Toni will be likely to try to recoup her money????

 

[alioop]

The term gentlemen's agreement implies no written agreement but hopefully there is some evidence of an agreement . Even a simple IOU would be written evidence or a series of emails leading up to payment in a bank account would be evidence of a loan.

 

[Obsessor]

Thanks again alioop.

It would be tough for the creditors sitting back and watching the amounts of money that are being thrown towards "proving" the poor lads "innocence", knowing that if he is convicted, which looks highly likely, they dont stand to recoup their investments/loans at all.

Even if he is acquitted, there wont be much left will there? (Not that its likely.)

 

[alioop]

Yes I feel for the creditors too. They may have borrowed the funds and they still have to repay their loans. They have every right to pursue repayment.

 

[Obsessor]

Alioop, could you have a stab in the dark at what you think the legal costs, up to and including, a four day committal hearing could be? (presuming there are no more bomb threats)

I think I remember hearing that the bail hearing number 2 would have taken care of $30000 (estimate).

Also, is he only employing one legal team now?