Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #45

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Some people have been convicted without a body, which IMO is THE most important evidence that someone is dead. I think it is the SUM of all evidence that makes it or breaks it.

If GBC had no scratches, bruises, etc. and if he had gone to work that morning and not reported her missing until that evening, maybe I would be inclined to consider that perhaps he had nothing to do with it, but all the inconsistencies and evidence we have seen so far is enough to convince me ... and I could be the average joe bloke being called to Jury Duty for this case. IMO.

I know! I've often thought, if he'd played it smart he may never have been arrested!! If he'd admitted to a fight, Allison storming out and him just assuming she was taking some 'time out' to p*** him off etc. If he'd pleaded for her return, been too stressed to return to 'business as usual'. it might have looked very different for him. Thank goodness he's not that clever really...
 
I know! I've often thought, if he'd played it smart he may never have been arrested!! If he'd admitted to a fight, Allison storming out and him just assuming she was taking some 'time out' to p*** him off etc. If he'd pleaded for her return, been too stressed to return to 'business as usual'. it might have looked very different for him. Thank goodness he's not that clever really...

Yep. A really good lie has to have a high percentage of truth to lie ratio. His ratio is too low, which is where it starts to sound untrue. With all the practise with his ongoing affairs and business practices I would have thought he would be a better liar. Oh well practise doesn't make perfect.

Btw, you would think that the caterpillar jokes would get old, but they just keep on giving. Keep up the good work.
 
Gbc is recorded as saying that Allison was going to meet Kate in the morning to go to the conference . He then says "which I didn't know about ". Kate's statement will be fascinating .imo

That seems to have been inconvenient to him or was he miffed he didn't know? Why should he know? What is the significance of him not knowing?
 
Yep. A really good lie has to have a high percentage of truth to lie ratio. His ratio is too low, which is where it starts to sound untrue. With all the practise with his ongoing affairs and business practices I would have thought he would be a better liar. Oh well practise doesn't make perfect.

Btw, you would think that the caterpillar jokes would get old, but they just keep on giving. Keep up the good work.

If GBC is anything like my ex, it's like they tell so many lies they can't keep stories straight and also forget who they've told what to. My ex will have no recollection of some bull;/$& story he spent ten minutes relating just a couple of weeks earlier and it happens all the time. Then, when caught out or quizzed on it gets angry and defensive and tries to twist it to say you're the one making it up. Sound familiar?

Re life before websleuths....I used to read books once upon a time :). Guess websleuths has saved me money at the bookstore. Thanks websleuths! :great:
 
Aliens abducting her, probing her for hours and gaining much needed scientific data for a future invasion, and then dropping her at Kholo Creek cant be ruled out 100%. But is it reasonable? Is suicide a reasonable alternative explanation that suits the facts of this case? Is walking 14km (unseen, mind you) and jumping off a bridge a reasonable explanation given the circumstances (scratches with all the hallmarks of fingernails on husbands face, extra-marital affairs, googling self-incrimination before calling police, not going to search HQ while wife is missing, trying to collect insurance before positive ID, botanical matter from yard in Allisons hair, dire financial situation, blood traces in third row of car seats, screams heard from neighbours, lack of suicide note, Allison's unending love for her daughters and the FACT that she would never leave them)?

No, the lack of COD does not lead to reasonable doubt.

Sorry, yes bad example!! Was using this case to try and understand RD - not whether that would be a plausible outcome based on all that is known. Kids gone wild and destroying house while I typed!! should have paid more attention to what i was writing! What I'm getting at is that I'm worried about it being proven to a jury during a trial beyond reasonable doubt is all. From what I recall his barrister has a knack of having things thrown out or made inadmissable and that with their comments following committal had me worried. I've never really followed a case like this so closely before but it seems some can go either way. Even despite the seemingly strongest of cases people get off and it comes down to who played the game best iykwim?

As the judge said originally the case against him is compelling and I really don't know how they and OW can be so confident. Perhaps they have no choice and have to be?

So I'm not debating his guilt or innocence, but just trying to understand process and how reasonable doubt may impact the case.

Clear as mud? Good :)
 
If GBC is anything like my ex, it's like they tell so many lies they can't keep stories straight and also forget who they've told what to. My ex will have no recollection of some bull;/$& story he spent ten minutes relating just a couple of weeks earlier and it happens all the time. Then, when caught out or quizzed on it gets angry and defensive and tries to twist it to say you're the one making it up. Sound familiar?

Re life before websleuths....I used to read books once upon a time :). Guess websleuths has saved me money at the bookstore. Thanks websleuths! :great:

Yes sounds familiar BUT I think TM has form.

WTF is she telling GBC to tell Allison that she'll be at the conference? Pushy little thing isnt she. I didn't notice TM backing out. How did she know Allison was going to be there? Was there a mole in this relationship telling TM info? TM must have really had some influence over GBC to have made him loose control that night.
Control v fear ??
AND then she was happy to think she won because Allison wasn't there.
AND then she was worried that Allison will win by teaching GBC a lesson.

I think we have soooo much more to learn because so much isn't adding up in my books
 
That seems to have been inconvenient to him or was he miffed he didn't know? Why should he know? What is the significance of him not knowing?

BJ I'ts just that I'm fixated on why he had to act and call police so early . Him not knowing about Allison meeting Kate kind of threw him . So he's not planning to report her missing till much later. Did Kate ring Allison's phone . Something inconvenient like that
 
Gbc is recorded as saying that Allison was going to meet Kate in the morning to go to the conference . He then says "which I didn't know about ". Kate's statement will be fascinating .imo
Obby is planning on making a list of inconsistencies.
If it's true he said "which I didn't know about " there's one inconsistency right there.
In the recorded police interview, he mentioned calling Kate R this morning.
He was then asked what time did he call Kate R..
His reply was '10 ni... 10 past seven"
Considering the police had been there since 08.45am, he oops cant have called at 10 past nine.
Kate actually called, possibly she was returning his message, when the police were interviewing him and the officer then spoke to Kate.
It appeared to me that GBC had called her in the morning to let Kate know that Allison wouldn't be meeting her at 08.00am.
That phone call at 10 past ni...10 past seven, really needs to put into the timeframe of events that morning.
Where he appears to be trying to stick to some sort of script.
 
BJ I'ts just that I'm fixated on why he had to act and call police so early . Him not knowing about Allison meeting Kate kind of threw him . So he's not planning to report her missing till much later. Did Kate ring Allison's phone . Something inconvenient like that

Yes I think someone was looking for Allison early that day earlier than he thought and so he had to report her missing much earlier than planned and that's why it all unravelled - really would you be worried so quickly - ??6.20am?? - the first text- and why
 
BJ I'ts just that I'm fixated on why he had to act and call police so early . Him not knowing about Allison meeting Kate kind of threw him . So he's not planning to report her missing till much later. Did Kate ring Allison's phone . Something inconvenient like that

Me too Chief. It does sound like it threw a spanner in the works for him or something.
 
Obby is planning on making a list of inconsistencies.
If it's true he said "which I didn't know about " there's one inconsistency right there.
In the recorded police interview, he mentioned calling Kate R this morning.
He was then asked what time did he call Kate R..
His reply was '10 ni... 10 past seven"
Considering the police had been there since 08.45am, he oops cant have called at 10 past nine.
Kate actually called, possibly she was returning his message, when the police were interviewing him and the officer then spoke to Kate.
It appeared to me that GBC had called her in the morning to let Kate know that Allison wouldn't be meeting her at 08.00am.
That phone call at 10 past ni...10 past seven, really needs to put into the timeframe of events that morning.
Where he appears to be trying to stick to some sort of script.
yes but I think he only rang Kate because she had been trying to call or text Allison. He was returning her call. He had to . Allison couldn't . And that tells me that he obviously had her phone . (While she's out walking )
 
And also that call at 7.10 was when he found out about them going together to the conference .
 
It intrigues me that people listening to GBC talk can hear such different things.

Some hear a story so convincing that they have bought houses from him, loaned him huge sums of money, left their spouse for him, or have followed him around (even unto court) declaring to the world that he is innocent of all charges.

Others, and that is most of us now, hear only words that lead nowhere; a meaningless flow of words and sounds that tell us nothing at all.

I wonder what Allison used to hear ...?

My guess is that for a time she heard the convincing words, but before long she found that the words began to have no real substance or meaning.

Hoping against hope she tried to find meaning in his words; but his actions spoke louder than the words and told a different story.

I do wish that Allison could have had some sense of our support and understanding back in those difficult days. She seems to have been so reluctant to burden those close to her with her concerns and fears.

Did GBC speak during those last minutes of Allison's life, or did his actions speak louder than words once again ...?
 
Interesting ....

If Kate did call ABC phone that morning, and it was answered ....

Perhaps the police have Kate's phone records that would show who she dialed and what time and how long the connection was for ?!!!!

So maybe that can 'circumstantially ' point to GBC having the phone ?
 
Just a reminder. Pity he didn't follow his own advice.

Her husband's great-grandfather, Lord Baden-Powell, started the scouting movement, a fact Baden-Clay mentioned often in his online business profiles.

He was regularly quoted in media reports about the real estate market.

"In business, it's simple: never lie," he said in 2008. "For starters, it's the wrong thing to do but secondly you will always get caught out and usually when you least expect it.

"There are just too many people, too many personalities, too many trails ... and too much to lose."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rged-with-murder/story-e6freoof-1226394560300
 
Interesting ....

If Kate did call ABC phone that morning, and it was answered ....

Perhaps the police have Kate's phone records that would show who she dialed and what time and how long the connection was for ?!!!!

So maybe that can 'circumstantially ' point to GBC having the phone ?

Just on the flip side WWGY- Allison's phone records don't show any evidence that she ever called Kate so maybe she did that through GBC - cause he seemed to call her every 10 seconds (bit of an exaggeration sorry :propeller:). But interesting that GBC tells TM that Kate organised Allison and herself to go to the conference at the last minute without him knowing....... (another lie of convenience to get him out of hot water with TM at the time)

This doesn't seem to fit with "Allison looking forward and had been excited" about to going to the conference, meeting Kate early to go together and GBC changing his schedule to take the kids to school that he tells the police.

Yet another lie that has flip flopped to whichever way he needs to spin the story!
 
Am going to post Allison's phone records again.
Really hoping there are no mistakes this time.
Two questions though-
On the phone bills are the times always in local time ie When/Wap internet is recorded as being accessed? and does anyone know how to Edit so I can copy and paste off a PDF?
(Gerard's will be next)
 
Yes CC, that's what I think too. It should be on the sum of the evidence as a whole. It's just the reasonable doubt thing. It's very subjective don't you think?

Remember the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and we have only seen parts
 
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