Amanda Knox found guilty for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy #15

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Linda7NJ said:
Are you aware that often a crime scene isn't discovered for quite some time? Days...Months...years..can go by.
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Yes. When did I ever say that this was not the case? Oh, I did not.

Do you think that evidence should just be ignored?
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It shouldn't be ignored, at all, but it should be acknowledged that it was handled poorly. Or do you think that it does not matter what they do as long as they find something, anything? I can't get down with that.

I don't care if that bra clasp was kicked up and down the street and found three months later. It doesn't change the facts. We know whose it was, we know she was wearing it the night of the murder, and there is not a single reasonable explanation for RS's DNA to be on it.


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So you are arguing that there is no possibility that a piece of evidence handled so poorly was contaminated? No possibility at all, lol . . .
 
Jessica2012 said:
This was my complete mistake aa9511. I have been so confused today and making many mistakes. I completely forgot about the bloody footprint on the bathmat(I don't think this can be explained away). I completely agree with every single point you have written, and it is unfortunate for RS the route he decided to take in his defense strategy in my opinion.
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bbm

It would be interesting what his inner thoughts are saying to him at this time.
 
Even if the bra clasp evidence is ignored, in my opinion there is still proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
As aa9511wrote "bathmat footprint, as well as there were more fingerprints found of him than there were of Amanda, and one of those fingerprnts is on Laura's door, indicating he went into Laura's bedroom, which would corroborate that he went into Laura's room to place the 112 call calls to his sister and Amanda calls to her mother. Also his cell phone being turned off at the same time as Amanda's that is a big clue. And, like I said, circumstantial evidence such as inconsistencies in his alibi story, etc.. It is not just one thing or the other for me, it's everything put together as a whole."
It is the totality of the evidence and not each piece looked at independently which proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt for me.
 
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otto said:
The window was probably broken because of a storm that blew the rock through the window. Meredith must have opened the door to her murderer, led the murderer to her bedroom, pointed out where she kept her money, pointed out her two cell phones, handed over her keys, and then just done nothing while she was stabbed and violently attacked until she had 43 injuries. Then, she died.
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That is the way Amanda's "good friend" Meredith died.
 
Jessica2012 said:
Even if the bra clasp evidence is ignored, in my opinion there is still proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
As aa9511wrote "bathmat footprint, as well as there were more fingerprints found of him than there were of Amanda, and one of those fingerprnts is on Laura's door, indicating he went into Laura's bedroom, which would corroborate that he went into Laura's room to place the 112 call calls to his sister and Amanda calls to her mother. Also his cell phone being turned off at the same time as Amanda's that is a big clue. And, like I said, circumstantial evidence such as inconsistencies in his alibi story, etc.. It is not just one thing or the other for me, it's everything put together as a whole."
It is the totality of the evidence and not each piece looked at independently which proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt for me.
Click to expand...


Everyone here is always talking about the totality of the evidence but if you take the discredited DNA away what are you left with? Some mixed DNA profiles, some inconsistencies like when she called her mother, and some suppositions that just bc they turned their cell phones off that night, they must have been up to something nefarious.

I could see getting to guilt IF you believe the DNA evidence showed MK DNA was on murder weapon and IF you believe the RS bra DNA. I personally don't believe that DNA evidence

But how do you get to guilt without the DNA? What is the case?
 
Jessica2012 said:
Even if the bra clasp evidence is ignored, in my opinion there is still proof beyond a reasonable doubt in my opinion.
As aa9511wrote "bathmat footprint, as well as there were more fingerprints found of him than there were of Amanda, and one of those fingerprnts is on Laura's door, indicating he went into Laura's bedroom, which would corroborate that he went into Laura's room to place the 112 call calls to his sister and Amanda calls to her mother. Also his cell phone being turned off at the same time as Amanda's that is a big clue. And, like I said, circumstantial evidence such as inconsistencies in his alibi story, etc.. It is not just one thing or the other for me, it's everything put together as a whole."
It is the totality of the evidence not each piece looked independently which proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Click to expand...

There is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Keep bringing up Amanda's footprints, but they were never proven to be hers. LJ will just respond with, "If they were not hers, whose footprints are they?" as if that proves they were hers. Funny.

Nor were any of RS's prints found in the apartment. <modsnip> I bring up how inconsistent and yes, inept the prosecution was and the fact that independent experts hired by the court disproved the DNA analysis as well as 20 others hired by the defense.

<modsnip>
 
Linda7NJ said:
Are you aware that often a crime scene isn't discovered for quite some time? Days...Months...years..can go by.
Do you think that evidence should just be ignored?
I don't care if that bra clasp was kicked up and down the street and found three months later. It doesn't change the facts. We know whose it was, we know she was wearing it the night of the murder, and there is not a single reasonable explanation for RS's DNA to be on it.


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Click to expand...

Now I want to play the 'devils advocate' for awhile!

Here goes :scared::banghead::scared:

His DNA was on the floor under the bed and the clasp must've been kicked there where somehow RS's DNA was stealthily hiding--no, wait, far better explanation! It was on the investigators SHOES as he/she KICKED it so sloppily all over The ROOM!

I didn't know that DNA could MAGICALLY APPEAR on any object by just getting Dirty? Is it the DUST that gives it all those #'s that match???

And I'm obviously too lame to know that as one walks after stepping directly in blood ones footprints will leave less and less blood until finally, ones footprint wouldn't show up unless a chemical agent is sprayed on it?
(Therefore I cannot scrub what I don't SEE)
So, since I didn't try to clean the UNSEEN footprints I left well then THERE WAS NO CLEAN-UP!

I will get into BEHAVIOR once my 11 year old gets his attention then goes to bed!

:seeya:
 
Yellow said:
Everyone here is always talking about the totality of the evidence but if you take the discredited DNA away what are you left with? Some mixed DNA profiles, some inconsistencies like when she called her mother, and some suppositions that just bc they turned their cell phones off that night, they must have been up to something nefarious.

I could see getting to guilt IF you believe the DNA evidence showed MK DNA was on murder weapon and IF you believe the RS bra DNA. I personally don't believe that DNA evidence

But how do you get to guilt without the DNA? What is the case?
Click to expand...

That's a good point. If we eliminate the evidence, piece by piece, Guede is innocent.

Evidence Against Guede

Feces in toilet - nothing connects that with the time of the murder
Footprints in hallway - irrelevant; collected Dec 18
Four DNA samples - irrelevant; collected Dec 18
Footprints in bedroom - irrelevant; shoes never found
Palmprint - irrelevant; inept investigators

Therefore, Guede is innocent.
 
otto said:
That's a good point. If we eliminate the evidence, piece by piece, Guede is innocent.

Evidence Against Guede

Feces in toilet - nothing connects that with the time of the murder
Footprints in hallway - irrelevant; collected Dec 18
Four DNA samples - irrelevant; collected Dec 18
Footprints in bedroom - irrelevant; shoes never found
Palmprint - irrelevant; inept investigators

Therefore, Guede is innocent.
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Yes!!!

Darn. Duty calls. But he first wants to leave some smilies for you all:

:seeya::thewave::thewave::thewave::thewave:
 
otto said:
That's a good point. If we eliminate the evidence, piece by piece, Guede is innocent.



Evidence Against Guede



Feces in toilet - nothing connects that with the time of the murder

Footprints in hallway - irrelevant; collected Dec 18

Four DNA samples - irrelevant; collected Dec 18

Footprints in bedroom - irrelevant; shoes never found

Palmprint - irrelevant; inept investigators



Therefore, Guede is innocent.
Click to expand...


There is no direct evidence! It's all circumstantial.


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Frankly I'm more than a little annoyed at both of them. If they had something to say, they should have said it in court.

Knox had the gall to title her book "waiting to be heard"
I say ...pffffft


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CJae said:
Now I want to play the 'devils advocate' for awhile!

Here goes :scared::banghead::scared:

His DNA was on the floor under the bed and the clasp must've been kicked there where somehow RS's DNA was stealthily hiding--no, wait, far better explanation! It was on the investigators SHOES as he/she KICKED it so sloppily all over The ROOM!

I didn't know that DNA could MAGICALLY APPEAR on any object by just getting Dirty? Is it the DUST that gives it all those #'s that match???

And I'm obviously too lame to know that as one walks after stepping directly in blood ones footprints will leave less and less blood until finally, ones footprint wouldn't show up unless a chemical agent is sprayed on it?
(Therefore I cannot scrub what I don't SEE)
So, since I didn't try to clean the UNSEEN footprints I left well then THERE WAS NO CLEAN-UP!

I will get into BEHAVIOR once my 11 year old gets his attention then goes to bed!

:seeya:
Click to expand...

I love this post. Thank you.
 
otto said:
That's a good point. If we eliminate the evidence, piece by piece, Guede is innocent.

Evidence Against Guede

Feces in toilet - nothing connects that with the time of the murder
Footprints in hallway - irrelevant; collected Dec 18
Four DNA samples - irrelevant; collected Dec 18
Footprints in bedroom - irrelevant; shoes never found
Palmprint - irrelevant; inept investigators

Therefore, Guede is innocent.
Click to expand...

Adding:

his story - interrogation pressures, which may or may not have included:
waterboarding, stripping naked, no food and no water, being locked up naked in a dungeon with a guard dog (or possibly, wolf), being beaten by interrogators, being deprived of sleep for extended period of time, and generally being tortured.

Because, we do not have any interrogation tapes, therefore we cannot rule out all or any of the above. Therefore, all of that is possibly true. Therefore, it is true.
 
aa9511 said:
Adding:

his story - interrogation pressures, which may or may not have included:
waterboarding, stripping naked, no food and no water, being locked up naked in a dungeon with a guard dog (or possibly, wolf), being beaten by interrogators, being deprived of sleep for extended period of time, and generally being tortured.

Because, we do not have any interrogation tapes, therefore we cannot rule out all or any of the above. Therefore, all of that is possibly true. Therefore, it is true.
Click to expand...

Excellent logic, you should become a lawyer!
 
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