Another drowning in La Crosse, WI - 8th since 1997

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
From either perspective (except SherlockMom's tax $$) it is a good thing for the FBI to look at. First, they don't have a vested interest as LAX PD does. People will accept their verdict one way or another. Additionally, if another student does fall in, public outcry will be lessened (unless of course it is a serial killer that has not been caught...) and the PD will not be blamed.

Kondracki made his conclusion about Luke Homan and how he died before Luke was even found. That's not an open-minded investigation - he started from his conclusion and worked backwards to support it. The FBI will start with an open mind and look for a conclusion.
 
Do not be confused about what the FBI is doing with this case. All they are doing is reviewing the evidence presented to them by the LAX PD. They are not launching their own investigation into the case.

"MADISON, Wis. - The FBI said Tuesday it will review evidence in the drowning deaths of eight young men in La Crosse-area rivers over the past nine years."

But the last sentence of the article said this:

"Krieg said the FBI has not mounted its own investigation into the drownings."

The FBI is only going to be looking at the same thing that the PD looked at. The PD asked for suggestions as to something they may not have seen in that evidence or perhaps a new direction to pursue. Hardly something they would do if they were trying to cover something up, be incompetent or have some vested interest in not being proved wrong.

I'm sure that they were pressured into doing this hoping to put an end to the belief of a serial killer on the loose but I'm sure that the reason they hadn't done so up to now is because they were confident that they had done all they could do and there just wasn't anything there. Isn't that what a good police force does? Should we have the FBI review every unsolved case or review a case every time someone has a conspiracy theory?
 
Sherlockmom said:
Do not be confused about what the FBI is doing with this case. All they are doing is reviewing the evidence presented to them by the LAX PD. They are not launching their own investigation into the case.

"MADISON, Wis. - The FBI said Tuesday it will review evidence in the drowning deaths of eight young men in La Crosse-area rivers over the past nine years."

But the last sentence of the article said this:

"Krieg said the FBI has not mounted its own investigation into the drownings."

The FBI is only going to be looking at the same thing that the PD looked at. The PD asked for suggestions as to something they may not have seen in that evidence or perhaps a new direction to pursue. Hardly something they would do if they were trying to cover something up, be incompetent or have some vested interest in not being proved wrong.

I'm sure that they were pressured into doing this hoping to put an end to the belief of a serial killer on the loose but I'm sure that the reason they hadn't done so up to now is because they were confident that they had done all they could do and there just wasn't anything there. Isn't that what a good police force does? Should we have the FBI review every unsolved case or review a case every time someone has a conspiracy theory?
Click to expand...



Sorry, Sherlock, ya know I luv' ya, and I love my nephew, who I think is the "bestest" most honest, policeman in the whole world, but I do not carry the same blind faith for all the rest. For every good cop there is a bad, lazy one out there. Sorry, that is just they way I feel, just like with teachers, preachers or whatever. I am not saying there is a coverup or a conspiracy here, maybe just laziness. Maybe it really is as it seems, drunkeness, which is not far fetched at all. I just dont see that it is a bad thing to take another look. They have used my tax dollars for much worse.

Now...if they would rather use that money to give people in wisconsin who dont have health insurance some health insurance, I would be all for that. :blowkiss:
 
You know what the problem is going to be:

The FBI is only going to review the evidence. They will not in essesence come up with anything new, I put money on that. BUT, people will say: Well the local PD did not hand over all of the evidence, a cops is involved, they with held evidence, the FBI could only rely on the PD evidence put forth. Therefore the FBI did not have all of the evidence, the local PD is "covering up" or they do not want to be "shown" up by the Feds.

The ultimate: The FBI did not do their own investigation, if they did, they would have found the "serial killer" so it is the fault of the PD and the FBI.

I also feel for the parents big time, I do. Their wonderful, kids who have their whole life ahead of them, who are in a higher learning facility, who love their families and their families love them, are gone because of a combination of booze, macho bravado, youth and inexperience.

No one ever expects it will happen to them and it is very hard for a parent to accept the "tragic" facts, it is easier to 'deny" that their child had any responsibility in their own death, it is sooo much easier not to face reality and blame an "unknown" person and to scapegoat the local PD.

More comfortable to "face fiction" then the "pain" of facts.
 
CyberLaw said:
You know what the problem is going to be:

The FBI is only going to review the evidence. They will not in essesence come up with anything new, I put money on that. BUT, people will say: Well the local PD did not hand over all of the evidence, a cops is involved, they with held evidence, the FBI could only rely on the PD evidence put forth. Therefore the FBI did not have all of the evidence, the local PD is "covering up" or they do not want to be "shown" up by the Feds.

The ultimate: The FBI did not do their own investigation, if they did, they would have found the "serial killer" so it is the fault of the PD and the FBI.

I also feel for the parents big time, I do. Their wonderful, kids who have their whole life ahead of them, who are in a higher learning facility, who love their families and their families love them, are gone because of a combination of booze, macho bravado, youth and inexperience.

No one ever expects it will happen to them and it is very hard for a parent to accept the "tragic" facts, it is easier to 'deny" that their child had any responsibility in their own death, it is sooo much easier not to face reality and blame an "unknown" person and to scapegoat the local PD.

More comfortable to "face fiction" then the "pain" of facts.
Click to expand...


well, it is not ONLY the parents of these children who are questioning. So, while what you say makes sense in relation to the parents of these kids, there are others who are questioning also. I just dont think it is gonna hurt to check it out a little further. I dont question kids who kill themselves in drunk driving accidents, but these drownings, to me, are wierd. I admit, there may be nothing to it, but what is the harm in taking another look?
 
>For every good cop there is a bad, lazy one out there. Sorry, that is just they way I feel, just like with teachers, preachers or whatever.<


Well it just seems that way sometimes because the good ones don't get the press that the bad ones do. But it is the truth that you will find immorality in all occupations but it shouldn't reflect on ALL teachers, ALL cops or ALL priests. You will find plumbers too LOL!! I'd like to think that corruption, immorality and sin doesn't discriminate. It's an equal opportunity employer. If I truly believed that it was split 50/50 I'd be pretty depressed. I don't think that is the case.

I think we are more horrified when it is a person to whom we have put our trust like a police officer or a teacher. I think we expect more of them than a plumber and we should. However the bad ones aren't always weeded out and detected until they are caught abusing their power. No one should have blind faith in any human being as we are all fallible. As has been said before, trust but verify. Trust but keep an eye open for signs that your trust may be misplaced.
 
>I admit, there may be nothing to it, but what is the harm in taking another look?

Because as someone else said before me. I don't think that it will satisfy these people. I don't think some of these people can emotionally handle the reality of the truth. They HAVE to have some kind of bogey man out there to blame. I think that it will be a waste of money and there will be all kinds of whacko accusations as to why the "truth" wasn't found.

There are alot of cold cases out there and unsolved crimes that LE is sure a crime was committed but haven't been able to solve. The evidence clearly points to foul play. Wouldn't the money and resources be better spent on cases where we KNOW a crime was committed? This is diverting resources away from real crimes where we KNOW the death was not accidental or from natural causes. If we had unlimited resources I wouldn't see the harm either but the truth is that we do not. I think we need to use some common sense and discretion before we call in the FBI to help with cases that have no evidence to point to a crime being committed.

There are thousands of people who have gone missing, some unidentified bodies and unsolved crimes that these resources would be better spent on IMO.

It will be interesting to hear the results of this. But I don't think I'll be surprised.
 
There is and has not been to date any evidence of any crime, even the FBI has admitted that this is not nor will be a "criminaL" investigation. The "motive" of this, is that the local PD wants to make sure as in 100% sure that they did not miss anything. So they are asking for another "set" of fresh eyes.

Gossip and rumors are not facts.

The fact is: Everyone of these men had double digit BAL in their blood. No one forced booze down their throats. There was no indication ever that there was any "bruising" or physical marks on their bodies. All died of drowning. All had been binge drinking.

The people of this town will not accept anything except a "serial" murderer is in their midst, all the while not accepting the fact that the common conduct here is booze.

By the way: Serial killers like to get "up close" and personal with their victims. Most want to cause the most pain. That is their high, so this does not fit the profile of a serial killer.

Nothing new is going to show up, but I do hope, really I do, that even if one student "thinks" twice about binge drinking, they may hopefully use common sense as in: Well maybe I should not "get so drunk" with a double digit BAL, that I might fall into the Lake and die. But "reflective" forethought is not "as common" among people who are young, like to party and do not think that it can happen to them

Occam razor applies here..........All things being equal, the simpliest solution tends to be the best one. All things unfortunately are not equal, as there again is no "basis" for a serial killer.

So far I have yet to see any evidence of a) a crime being committed b)evidence of a crime c)a serial killer d) a person who murders college students or e) any differences in all of the cases.

You have to use logic and reasoning to look at all of the factors........you just cannot "add" in factors" that have no basis in evidence and fact. You would be "adding" fiction that has no basis in reality.

The Police know this, the FBI knows this, now it is up to the citizens of this town to "stop the" the mob mentality and do something about this that is a problem and it will be a problem until it is adressed and preventative measure or means are in place. The problem is not going to be addressed, no means are going to be taken as long as "this unknown" stranger is in the midst. Blaming some one else, deflects all personal responsibility, individually and as a town.
 
>The Police know this, the FBI knows this, now it is up to the citizens of this town to "stop the" the mob mentality and do something about this that is a problem and it will be a problem until it is adressed and preventative measure or means are in place. The problem is not going to be addressed, no means are going to be taken as long as "this unknown" stranger is in the midst. Blaming some one else, deflects all personal responsibility, individually and as a town.<


:clap:
 
Sherlockmom said:
>There are alot of cold cases out there and unsolved crimes that LE is sure a crime was committed but haven't been able to solve. The evidence clearly points to foul play. Wouldn't the money and resources be better spent on cases where we KNOW a crime was committed? This is diverting resources away from real crimes where we KNOW the death was not accidental or from natural causes. If we had unlimited resources I wouldn't see the harm either but the truth is that we do not. I think we need to use some common sense and discretion before we call in the FBI to help with cases that have no evidence to point to a crime being committed.
This is a good point. However, like any other crimes/missing people/etc. these are relatively wealthy, well-known, well-liked, white normal college boys. Possible criminal activity against them is more likely to be investigated and raise further public outcry then say, the young black men murdered on Milwaukee's streets every day - and those crimes remaining unsolved. And I have to say - I'm guilty of that too - my son, brother, etc. are more like the La Crosse boys than the Milwaukee ones, so I am more concerned about LaX.

Regardless, the FBI's review will be helpful b/c they deal with nationwide, wide-ranging crimes. LaX PD probably investigates less than 20 suspicious deaths a year. The exposure and experience, education level, etc. even when looking at static, reported evidence, is going to make the FBI's report much more credible.

I'll of course believe the FBI's outcome until the next boy drowns. At which point I'm likely to become suspicious again. But at least I, and the rest of the public, won't be able to claim that the LaX PD isn't responsive.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
>This is a good point. However, like any other crimes/missing people/etc. these are relatively wealthy, well-known, well-liked, white normal college boys. Possible criminal activity against them is more likely to be investigated and raise further public outcry then say, the young black men murdered on Milwaukee's streets every day - and those crimes remaining unsolved. <


How do you know these boy's family's financial situations? I would think that it would be the lower income families that would send their kids to college in LaCrosse. If they were relatively wealthy, believe me, most of them would be going to private schools. And well-known? It's not like these boys were famous or anything. What they were is just the average American college boy. That is probably what catches the media and public attention not the color of their skin or their income levels. It's the fact that these were average all-American boys and if it could happen to them it could happen to your child too. This scares people because it hits really close to home and I think that is why it has so much attention paid to it. I don't even know if the victims were all white but are you saying that no one would question these accidents if all other things equal, they were black?

I do not agree that possible criminal activity is more likely to be investigated if someone is white. As for the young black men murdered on Milwaukee's streets every day I do not believe those are ignored. First of all, although even one shooting is one too many it's not happening every day. And secondly, a good portion of those shootings are involving young black men who are either involved in gang, drugs or other illegal activity. While their murder is still murder and a senseless waste of life, it is more easily explained as a consequence of their lifestyle than let us say someone murdered by a serial killer. The media leaves out alot of details about some of these cases. I don't know if it is on purpose or not but I know that if all of the details were known about some of the shooting victims they probably wouldn't garner much public sympathy.

Remember that in Milwaukee right now there is a serious shortage of police officers. Most officers are putting in alot of overtime. You only have so many man hours. Is it too suprising to find that priorities are given to cases? It's like triage in an emergency room. I do not believe that skin color or income is used to put priorities on cases. All of them have to be investigated but not all of them can be investigated at once.

Many of these cases are already solved and you probably do not hear about it when the perpetrators are arrested. I think they arrested someone in the shooting of the teenage girl a few weeks ago. It was pretty apparant what happened in that case. A young girl sitting out on her front porch late at night while a gang fight is going on in front of her home. I don't think they suspected a serial killer in that case. It was clear what happened. There were witnesses and the police were pretty sure they knew who did it. They shortly arrested a suspect.

And despite that fact, a woman running for the DA's office in Milwaukee speaking at a NAACP forum suggested that a cop may have shot the girl. If someone running for the DA position in the city of MILW was so uninformed and biased with her opinions how can we expect the average citizens of the city to be informed about which cases are being pursued and which are not. It works for the media and some running for office to exploit racial issues and be divisive in order to stir up public emotion and brainwash people into thinking that one's skin color denotes how much attention the police will pay to crimes committed against you. If the news media is the only place people can get their perceptions about our criminal justice system it is no wonder that their viewpoints are so skewed and inaccurate and suspicious. This is mostly media-fueled and I believe that if the media did it's job ethically and fairly and just reported the news the public would be less suspicious and paranoid.


I well remember how the community came out strongly and got heavily involved in the two black children that went missing almost a year ago and were found drown. No one ignored it because they were black. The police also put alot of hours into the Alexis Patterson child case. And there was a public outcry when the good samaritan was shot during an attempted burglary some months ago and I believe that victim was black too.

I think the media is more guilty of picking and choosing the cases that they cover extensively. The media gives people certain perceptions. I know there are lots of cases the media drops the ball on and that is why I come to WB.
 
Sherlockmom said:
>This is a good point. However, like any other crimes/missing people/etc. these are relatively wealthy, well-known, well-liked, white normal college boys. Possible criminal activity against them is more likely to be investigated and raise further public outcry then say, the young black men murdered on Milwaukee's streets every day - and those crimes remaining unsolved. <

>How do you know these boy's family's financial situations? I would think that it would be the lower income families that would send their kids to college in LaCrosse. If they were relatively wealthy, believe me, most of them would be going to private schools. And well-known? It's not like these boys were famous or anything. What they were is just the average American college boy. That is probably what catches the media and public attention not the color of their skin or their income levels. It's the fact that these were average all-American boys and if it could happen to them it could happen to your child too. This scares people because it hits really close to home and I think that is why it has so much attention paid to it. I don't even know if the victims were all white but are you saying that no one would question these accidents if all other things equal, they were black?<
Click to expand...
I know Luke's and Jared's financial situations because I know their towns, their schools, and know of the families. Jared was a buddy of my brother. Additionally, Waukesha County is the second-wealthiest county in the US, and Brookfield East and Arrowhead are the two wealthiest high schools in Waukesha County. They were well-known because they were both college athletes, and had been standout high school athletes as well. It's safe to say "relatively wealthy and well-known" vs. the anonymous african-american boy in Milwaukee that is shot on the street.

Luke's and Jared's family have more access to keep this story going. And the serial killer angle is simply more interesting than a gang shooting. If all other things were equal, except black victims, (all the victims have been white) I couldn't say that it would get the same attention. However, if the black young men were well-known athletes, from these wealthy communities, and their families had access like Luke's and Jared's, then yes, I would say that it would be as likely to get investigated. Unfortunately, African-Americans are less likely to be wealthy and well-connected, so the scenario is not easily translatable.

As far as Milwaukee, it is interesting that the white student delivery driver's murder was solved very quickly, and of course, was widely reported. Most murders this year have not gotten the attention, and I haven't heard about their resolution. Lifestyle may be part of it, skin color and social status is a big player too.
 
Ang50 said:
I know Luke's and Jared's financial situations because I know their towns, their schools, and know of the families. Jared was a buddy of my brother. Additionally, Waukesha County is the second-wealthiest county in the US, and Brookfield East and Arrowhead are the two wealthiest high schools in Waukesha County. They were well-known because they were both college athletes, and had been standout high school athletes as well. It's safe to say "relatively wealthy and well-known" vs. the anonymous african-american boy in Milwaukee that is shot on the street.

Luke's and Jared's family have more access to keep this story going. And the serial killer angle is simply more interesting than a gang shooting. If all other things were equal, except black victims, (all the victims have been white) I couldn't say that it would get the same attention. However, if the black young men were well-known athletes, from these wealthy communities, and their families had access like Luke's and Jared's, then yes, I would say that it would be as likely to get investigated. Unfortunately, African-Americans are less likely to be wealthy and well-connected, so the scenario is not easily translatable.

As far as Milwaukee, it is interesting that the white student delivery driver's murder was solved very quickly, and of course, was widely reported. Most murders this year have not gotten the attention, and I haven't heard about their resolution. Lifestyle may be part of it, skin color and social status is a big player too.
Click to expand...

I can vouch to that. I grew up in Brookfield and my sister still lives there to this day. Hartland is also very nice, where Arrowhead HS is.
 
>Additionally, Waukesha County is the second-wealthiest county in the US, and Brookfield East and Arrowhead are the two wealthiest high schools in Waukesha County. They were well-known because they were both college athletes, and had been standout high school athletes as well. It's safe to say "relatively wealthy and well-known" vs. the anonymous african-american boy in Milwaukee that is shot on the street. <


You seem to have alot of biases and pre-conceived notions. Not everyone who lives in those areas is wealthy. I lived in one of the richest counties in WI for years and I wasn't anywhere close to rich. And my husband and I and our children had fewer opportunities available to us because we WERE white.

I wonder about people who try to turn everything no matter what it is into a white versus black thing. Your viewpoints are about 25 years behind the times. Black people in general are not mostly poor and they are not being victimized. A large portion of them are educated, middle to upper middle class and recent statistics show that more than ever before are homeowners.

The only reason this case is getting so much attention is because a bunch of people will not accept the fact that getting skunk drunk and trying to walk home along a dangerous body of water can get you killed. It has nothing to do with being white or black. Maybe black college kids in LaCrosse aren't stupid enought to do that and maybe that's why it's only white kids drowning LOL!
 
Sherlockmom said:
>Additionally, Waukesha County is the second-wealthiest county in the US, and Brookfield East and Arrowhead are the two wealthiest high schools in Waukesha County. They were well-known because they were both college athletes, and had been standout high school athletes as well. It's safe to say "relatively wealthy and well-known" vs. the anonymous african-american boy in Milwaukee that is shot on the street. <


You seem to have alot of biases and pre-conceived notions. Not everyone who lives in those areas is wealthy. I lived in one of the richest counties in WI for years and I wasn't anywhere close to rich. And my husband and I and our children had fewer opportunities available to us because we WERE white.

I wonder about people who try to turn everything no matter what it is into a white versus black thing. Your viewpoints are about 25 years behind the times. Black people in general are not mostly poor and they are not being victimized. A large portion of them are educated, middle to upper middle class and recent statistics show that more than ever before are homeowners.

The only reason this case is getting so much attention is because a bunch of people will not accept the fact that getting skunk drunk and trying to walk home along a dangerous body of water can get you killed. It has nothing to do with being white or black. Maybe black college kids in LaCrosse aren't stupid enought to do that and maybe that's why it's only white kids drowning LOL!
Click to expand...
Your selective editing excluded the part where I stated personal knowledge of both of those boy's families, in addition to my general knowledge of their towns and schools. Who has the bias here??

Quit making this personal - sometimes you have good points, but they get lost when you directly attack other posters.
 
The FBI will review the investigative work done by local police in the numerous drowning deaths in La Crosse.

more at the link http://www.wkbt.com/Global/story.asp?S=5614309&nav=menu239_1

Found more information at another link:

Nov 20, 2006 7:38 pm US/Central
Police: Jenkins Was Thrown From Bridge

Minneapolis University of Minnesota student Chris Jenkins died after he was thrown off a bridge in downtown Minneapolis four years ago, police said Monday, and they apologized for first suspecting his death was a suicide or accident.

A "suspect/witness" is in custody in another state on an unrelated charge, said Sgt. Pete Jackson, the lead homicide investigator on the case. Jackson said he also wants to talk to another eyewitness who's not in custody. He was deliberately vague on what their roles might be, but said they have pointed the finger at each other.

Jackson declined to say when any charges might be filed.

more at this link http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_324070118.html
 
This news is pretty big. They're calling the drowning in Minneapolis/St Paul a "Homicide". Which makes the drownings in LaCrosse suspect. I'm glad that the investigators have contacted the FBI. Too many coincidences
 
You cannot compare one case to the others, without knowing all of the facts and underlying motive in the Jenkins case.

It is akin to saying that a women was found in water in LA who is a victim of a homicide, and a victim was found in New York who fell in while she was very drunk, and saying because one is a homicide the other one is too.

There are a lot of facts in the Jenkins case that are unknown to the public, this young man was specifically targeted for what ever motive, reason, past actions.

Why don't we compare apples and oranges also and see if they are both fruits, and then convince someone that since they are fruit, they are both the same colour, taste, texture.

One case is in Minn. the other one is in Wisc. Oh of course they are both states in the midwest.

They have no relevance to each other.
 
I also find this statement very interesting:

The Jenkins case was one of several in the Midwest of college students and other young adults who disappeared in recent years, often after nights out that involved drinking. Some of them were found dead in rivers, and there's been speculation that there might be a link.

But Jackson said they had nothing to connect Jenkins' death with any of the others, though he didn't rule it out.

"Chris' death at this time is not linked to any of these other deaths, especially there's quite a few involving college students," Jackson said. "I have been contacted today quite a bit by other agencies from around the Midwest. We've had several deaths involving college students. But there's nothing at this time to connect Chris' death between the others."

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_324070118.html
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 133 more.
Total: 4,553 (members: 134, guests: 4,419)

Online statistics

Members online
134
Guests online
4,419
Total visitors
4,553
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,487
Messages
17,969,681
Members
228,788
Latest member
Soccergirl500
Back
Top