AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[IzzyBlanche]

"Training" and the "buddy system".

I don't even know what that means in the context of this family's story. But thanks for answering.

 

[Boytwnmom]

This is so sick. And so true.

You know, I have actually researched this family quite a bit as part of larger research into their specific religious movement. (I have a BA in American Studies and New Religious Movements (i.e. "cults"), have been a major fascination for me and a big part of my studies). I've followed them for years and other like them. ATI is a dangerous movement that TLC whitewashed from the show. Nevertheless, there remained a significant audience including not only people who admired their lifestyle but also people who didn't or people who were fascinated.

But while there were things about their lifestyle and culture that were upsetting to me, these were human beings who I feel were sincere in their beliefs and truly trying to life a good life. And I am able to disagree with a culture without hate. These are not evil people, IMO. Regardless of the damage their belief system apparently caused.

However, I do believe that this is over. I cannot see how TLC can continue to market these people. It is done, I think. Now we will see how it is possible to have mega families, "debt free", living well without corporate sponsors.

And you're right and I don't believe they are evil either. But this kind of religious system enables some evil behavior to flourish and helps to create female victims who have literally no place to turn in many cases as their whole life is so tightly controlled.

I just have serious problems with these various men who pretend to speak for God and control people from a young age so that their free will is essentially taken from them and supplanted by rigid rules and gender roles which must be strictly adhered to. The women in these families are no different than women in other repressive cultures who are denied access to education and society under the guise of protecting them.

The Duggars are also part of the so called Stay at Home Daughter movement where women never leave the home until authority over them is transferred from their father to their husband. There is no college for them or solo anything or friends outside their circle.

And it's not about large families. I grew up Catholic and everyone had a bunch of kids, 13 in my Dad's family. But they all went to school, worked for people other than their parents, dated, traveled and went to church on Sunday and then resumed normal life.

There's nothing about the Duggars I would want to emulate and I've never understood what anyone finds appealing about them. I've never watched their show and yet I know all about them as they promote themselves all over the media and through mediums they don't allow their own children access to.


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[MsFacetious]

It's important to note that one of the victims is STILL a minor.
That is the one who is seeking to have the records destroyed.
This means that at least one victim was under 6 years old at the time.
I am guessing that is the one he fondled while he was reading her a book with her on his lap. :twocents:

 

[gitana1]

Forgive the OT, but actually the FRC typically tries to connect pedophilia with homosexuality, so Josh Duggar would have put them in a lose-lose situation either way. It's never been clear to me whether they hate homosexuals more than pedophiles or vice versa -- but I guess, since they have so much hate to spare, that they don't need to pick sides on some issues.

Definitely gay people. I'v never heard them say boo about pedophiles. But gay people? Trans? Holy hell. Evil incarnate to them.

I don't even know what that means in the context of this family's story. But thanks for answering.

Oh gosh. "Training" means, in part, breaking the will of the child via hitting that child, as young as infancy, with a "rod", into total submission. Michelle Duggar describes some of this training in their book. Sh describes hiding around a corner and rushing toward the baby when it crawls off blanket she's placed him on, and hitting him with a wooden spoon for moving. But you have to read between the lines because they were smart about what they revealed and they use euphemisms a lot, like "correction" instead of hitting.

"Buddy system" means the older girls are raising the younger. After 6 months of age, from what I've seen, the mom gave the babies to their older sister "buddy" to raise.

 

[Zuri]

And you're right and I don't believe they are evil either. But this kind of religious system enables some evil behavior to flourish and helps to create female victims who have literally no place to turn in many cases as their whole life is so tightly controlled.

I just have serious problems with these various men who pretend to speak for God and control people from a young age so that their free will is essentially taken from them and supplanted by rigid rules and gender roles which must be strictly adhered to. The women in these families are no different than women in other repressive cultures who are denied access to education and society under the guise of protecting them.

The Duggars are also part of the so called Stay at Home Daughter movement where women never leave the home until authority over them is transferred from their father to their husband. There is no college for them or solo anything or friends outside their circle.

And it's not about large families. I grew up Catholic and everyone had a bunch of kids, 13 in my Dad's family. But they all went to school, worked for people other than their parents, dated, traveled and went to church on Sunday and then resumed normal life.

There's nothing about the Duggars I would want to emulate and I've never understood what anyone finds appealing about them. I've never watched their show and yet I know all about them as they promote themselves all over the media and through mediums they don't allow their own children access to.


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Beautifully said. I found it interesting in the police report where 2 defense attorneys declined to take the case after being hired/requested by JBD. I have watched the show before several times, with a bit of voyerism likened to that of a train wreck.

I won't kid myself nor do I doubt many of you all will either. The driving force behind the quiet cover up was MONEY. JBD padded some palms so this would go away and be handled quietly IMO. Tithing goes along way to assist their church. I would bet money that hush money was paid. For all their righteous vim and vigor, did any of these kids that were affected get effective counseling? Or were they shamed into not seeking it ?

I am smh and hope there is at least truth in TLC pulling the program. JMV

 

[gitana1]

And you're right and I don't believe they are evil either. But this kind of religious system enables some evil behavior to flourish and helps to create female victims who have literally no place to turn in many cases as their whole life is so tightly controlled.

I just have serious problems with these various men who pretend to speak for God and control people from a young age so that their free will is essentially taken from them and supplanted by rigid rules and gender roles which must be strictly adhered to. The women in these families are no different than women in other repressive cultures who are denied access to education and society under the guise of protecting them.

The Duggars are also part of the so called Stay at Home Daughter movement where women never leave the home until authority over them is transferred from their father to their husband. There is no college for them or solo anything or friends outside their circle.

And it's not about large families. I grew up Catholic and everyone had a bunch of kids, 13 in my Dad's family. But they all went to school, worked for people other than their parents, dated, traveled and went to church on Sunday and then resumed normal life.

There's nothing about the Duggars I would want to emulate and I've never understood what anyone finds appealing about them. I've never watched their show and yet I know all about them as they promote themselves all over the media and through mediums they don't allow their own children access to.


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Yes. And I've argued hard with people who believe these girls have the opportunity to obtain true higher education or jobs outside the home or realm of a brother, father, husband chaperone or business, or, in a very limited fashion, something to do with caretaking children or women, until they themselves are married and mothers.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

And you're right and I don't believe they are evil either.
...
The women in these families are no different than women in other repressive cultures who are denied access to education and society under the guise of protecting them.

The Duggars are also part of the so called Stay at Home Daughter movement where women never leave the home until authority over them is transferred from their father to their husband. There is no college for them or solo anything or friends outside their circle.

Snipped for focus
Not directed at you, just jumping off from your post

Repressing women like that falls under my definition of evil.

And let's face it, if they said they treated females this way because that's what the Sharia law according to the faith they follow dictates, people would be up in arms about it.

But they claim to be Christians, so okay, they must be good people, move along, nothing to see here.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Definitely gay people. I'v never heard them say boo about pedophiles. But gay people? Trans? Holy hell. Evil incarnate to them.



Oh gosh. "Training" means, in part, breaking the will of the child via hitting that child, as young as infancy, with a "rod", into total submission. Michelle Duggar describes some of this training in their book. Sh describes hiding around a corner and rushing toward the baby when it crawls off blanket she's placed him on, and hitting him with a wooden spoon for moving. But you have to read between the lines because they were smart about what they revealed and they use euphemisms a lot, like "correction" instead of hitting.

"Buddy system" means the older girls are raising the younger. After 6 months of age, from what I've seen, the mom gave the babies to their older sister "buddy" to raise.

Good grief!

And they're supposed to be a model family because God?

And if they were Muslim?

The model anti-family, I would guess.

Thanks for the clarification. Sheesh.

 

[MsFacetious]

So if one of the victims was about 5 at the time...
That means his oldest daughter is the same age now. :twocents:

 

[Donjeta]

I never watched this show but really? they were held up as a model family?

Model of what?

Religion notwithstanding, how can parents of that many children be models for anything except what a lack of birth control and healthy fertility will get you?

How could they possibly give each child the individual attention and nurturing that every child needs, siblings or no?

I'm baffled.

It's cheaper by the dozen.

I don't think individual attention can be a priority.

 

[Donjeta]

www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2015/...rs-another-female-according-to-police-report/

They said the incidents brought the family closer to God ...

"Closer to God ..." ?? WTH ?

This guy has daughters, if I've read correctly. How are they any safer ?
:moo:

They were brought closer to God because they were so fervently praying that no one would find out.

 

[katydid23]

I have always thought it was narcissistic and irresponsible for ANY couple to give birth to 19 children. There is no reason to have that many children. No one can successfully care for that many in a responsible way. And the 'buddy' system is NOT PARENTING effectively.

If a couple wants to make a home for 19 foster or adoptees, that need a loving home, that is WONDERFUL. But there is no valid justification to physically birth that many children otherwise. It is an egotistical, selfish thing to do, imo.

Those kids have to, by necessity, live their entire lives intertwined with their families. They did not have close friendships growing up-only family bonds. Their lives centered solely around their siblings and parents/ They did not play sports or do organized activities or school projects---they dealt with family dynamics, out of necessity. I think it is a selfish thing on the parents part to have that many children. JMO

 

[Donjeta]

You can read the actual police report.
Here:
"A 2006 police report obtained by In Touch Weekly magazine revealed that one of the Duggar siblings, of TLC's "19 Kids and Counting," allegedly sexually assaulted four female siblings in the large family, plus an additional female victim."
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...rs-another-female-according-to-police-report/

It is oddly appropriate that this was first reported by a publication named In Touch Weekly...

 

[Donjeta]

The elders all agreed that Josh should be sent to a 'treatment program.'

The family did send Josh to a 'program [that] consisted of hard physical work and counseling' according to the police report for four months, but Jim Bob could not remember the name of the program.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...police-2006-Oprah-concerns.html#ixzz3arFsq7mo
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Was he ever in any program or is this just a lie? That doesn't seem the kind of thing that you would forget... Your eldest son sexually abuses your daughters and gets sent to a four month program that is supposed to cure him of his ungodly tendencies to sexual offending and the finer details just slip your mind...?!?

After he returned home from his program, Jim Bob did take his son to Arkansas State Trooper Jim Hutchens, a family friend.

Hutchens had a stern talk with Josh, but did not take any official action.

He is now serving 60 years in prison after he being caught with child *advertiser censored* shortly after being released from prison on a previous child *advertiser censored* charge.

More about him:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ison-child-*advertiser censored*-charges.html




Son, I know what you did and I'm now going to give you a stern talking to... whatever you do, NEVER get caught....

 

[skinnycat]

I'm surprised that they did anything about it, most incest isn't even reported.

I've done some reading on the incest thing, as someone that I love very much was molested by her father, if I'm not confusing the statistics it's speculated that incest occurs in 1 in 20 homes.

The thing that gives me hope for JD to not do this again and understand the severity of what he did, is the fact that he has owned his actions and continues to own his actions, most child abusers never own what they did. I can at least see that JD is trying to be accountable for what he did when he was a kid.

As a side note I've never watched the show, I'm not a Duggar supporter

 

[oh_gal]

Respectfully, why would we call these "allegations"? The accused has not denied the actions, so lets call them what they are- actions and not allegations.

I've never seen the show and agree, it's time to call it quits....

(bbm)
'Cause I didn't want to get my butt handed to me on a plate for jumping the gun.

 

[oh_gal]

I have always thought it was narcissistic and irresponsible for ANY couple to give birth to 19 children. There is no reason to have that many children. No one can successfully care for that many in a responsible way. And the 'buddy' system is NOT PARENTING effectively.

If a couple wants to make a home for 19 foster or adoptees, that need a loving home, that is WONDERFUL. But there is no valid justification to physically birth that many children otherwise. It is an egotistical, selfish thing to do, imo.

Those kids have to, by necessity, live their entire lives intertwined with their families. They did not have close friendships growing up-only family bonds. Their lives centered solely around their siblings and parents/ They did not play sports or do organized activities or school projects---they dealt with family dynamics, out of necessity. I think it is a selfish thing on the parents part to have that many children. JMO

(b/u by me)
If they cannot effectively raise 19 biological children, how can they raise 19 adopted or foster children?

 

[Mountaingazer]

Definitely gay people. I'v never heard them say boo about pedophiles. But gay people? Trans? Holy hell. Evil incarnate to them.



Oh gosh. "Training" means, in part, breaking the will of the child via hitting that child, as young as infancy, with a "rod", into total submission. Michelle Duggar describes some of this training in their book. Sh describes hiding around a corner and rushing toward the baby when it crawls off blanket she's placed him on, and hitting him with a wooden spoon for moving. But you have to read between the lines because they were smart about what they revealed and they use euphemisms a lot, like "correction" instead of hitting.

"Buddy system" means the older girls are raising the younger. After 6 months of age, from what I've seen, the mom gave the babies to their older sister "buddy" to raise.

For others who want more info on this, it is often referred to as blanket training. Be prepared for your heart to hurt.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Most of the information about this family comes from tabloid media. If it is to be believed, Anna's sister is never to be mentioned on the program because she had a child out of wedlock. Cousin Amy pretty much disappeared when she went to Nashville to become a singer. Eldest daughter, Jana, wants to go to a Bible College to become a teacher, but her parent's don't want her to go. Rumors are she's decided not to participate in the series any more. Josh got a great "job offer" in DC, but what it was wasn't mentioned, ever.

Who knows how much is factual of the above? If all true, then Jim Bob keeps these things out of the show so as not to spoil the family "brand". That's what it is, folks, a brand. It's not the truth by a long shot.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm surprised that they did anything about it, most incest isn't even reported.

I've done some reading on the incest thing, as someone that I love very much was molested by her father, if I'm not confusing the statistics it's speculated that incest occurs in 1 in 20 homes.

The thing that gives me hope for JD to not do this again and understand the severity of what he did, is the fact that he has owned his actions and continues to own his actions, most child abusers never own what they did. I can at least see that JD is trying to be accountable for what he did when he was a kid.

As a side note I've never watched the show, I'm not a Duggar supporter

I hope he's learned his lesson too but if this happened in 2002 and it came to the DHS attention in 2006 when some unknown individual raised concerns to the Oprah Winfrey show it it seems to me that also this family did their best not to report it.

The police report of Josh Duggar's alleged molestation reveals that incidents happened multiple times between the then teenager and five girls, almost always while the minors were sleeping.

What's more, both of his parents were aware of the situation but waited over a year to notify anyone in law enforcement, going at that time to see a family friend who was a trooper and did not file a report.

They also revealed details of the incident to church elders who did not reach out to law enforcement.

It was not until producers from The Oprah Winfrey Show, who were planning an interview with the family, received an email alerting them to the alleged molestation that an investigation began, this after the show reached out to the Department of Human Services.

That was in December of 2006, over four years after the first reported offense.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...police-2006-Oprah-concerns.html#ixzz3as0q5xXA

Then Jim Bob didn't even bother to remember to tell the police which program they supposedly sent Josh to.

It's true that now Josh has publically owned up to what he did and he said it was inexcusable but that's basically because he had no choice after the police report came to light. Before that he was quite happily settled in his niche moralizing others for their behavior, despite the fact that his own actions were just as inexcusable back when nobody knew about it.

JMO.