ARDI -- new hope The return of the IDI

[voynich]

Sure. Hey, don't get me wrong: nothing like this should be ignored.



I imagine it did happen. But it's one thing to say it happened. It is another thing all together to say it was the same person.

What are the facts of Amy's rape, and we can compare that with the facts of JB's rape.

What does your beloved CASKU say about Amy's rapist? What's AR doing now?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

That's not quite accurate. Nobody is claiming she smeared it on herself while she was being murdered. Speaking purely for myself, quite the opposite. Just because she had that clothing on at the time doesn't mean it was deposited at that exact moment. It could have been there far longer than that. In fact, that's my whole point: that it was too old to have been left there that night.

Just thought you'd want to know. I don't care if someone disagrees with me, but I prefer they do it honestly.

From the DA's exhoneration letter:

"One of the results of their efforts was that they identified genetic material and a DNA profile from drops of JonBenet’s blood located in the crotch of the underwear she was wearing at the time her body was discovered."

Just so I can keep RDI straight, you're supposing that old DNA was already in the underwear and went into solution with the blood?

Further, the DNA predicted to be on her waistband, positively found on the waistband, RDI believes was deposited innocently, despite the same DNA in solution with JBR's blood?

Its possible this was a great breakthrough, generated by a clever, progressive idea: test for coded DNA match specifically on waistband using newly available technique.

I think RDI may not only have sold a discovery in JBR's murder short. Instead of giving the DA's office credit for discovery, insinuate an impropriety of some sort.

The media gave credit.

 

[Tadpole12]

I'm glad you asked. I should have been more specific. The DNA under JB's nails was in such awful shape it only had three identifiable markers. Now, those three markers were compared to the other DNA sample found in the underwear. The markers that could be identified matched up with the corresponding markers in the other sample. But, since a lot of DNA is identical, you can see the problem.

Hi SD.

The markers that could be identified matched up with the corresponding markers in the other sample. But, since a lot of DNA is identical, you can see the problem.- SD

Is that a certainty?

With the 10 to 13 loci used as a comparative wouldn't 3 matching strands? reflect some quantity or propability of distribution within a pop group?

 

[voynich]

to evidence that the RN does NOT show Francophillic and motherly tone,
Quite the contrary, my little green friend. That's exactly what it shows.
-sd

you must be looking in a mirror

sd-won, i'm the one with the black cape and respirator and black mask burnt face underneath red lightsaber

I've been going back over the ransom note to see if i could find evidence that it was written by someone french, the use of grammar, punctuation and vocabulary point to someone anglophone, imo. In france they genrally teach english spelling not US, they use the 24 hour clock and not AM/PM, they use a . in numbers and not a , they are taught to write in script from elementary school so generally write in script and looking at my daughters textbooks they teach a lot of out of date phrases and seem to make similar grammatical mistakes, which were not present in the RN
There again my husband thinks the RN may have been written by a Canadian

 

[Tadpole12]

IDI theory, from my POV, would probably utilize lock picking. My theory is a more elaborate, SFF-type, came a long way, spent a lot of money, to kidnap JBR not for ransom, but failed.

Hi Hotyh.

as far as B&E goes, anyone with the know how who had occasion to enter the Ramsey's home could have modified the lock mechanism on the window for their future access.

Bump key would do well.
"One bump key will work for all locks of the same ..."
utilize lock picking, prolly take a minute?

 

[voynich]

A little attribution, please?


Beaten? I have not yet BEGUN to fight!

You Jedi, so blinded by arrogance. But I know your weaknesses. There are at least two things that you won't touch with a ten-foot vibrostaff, Master voynich. Once I made the mistake of letting you avoid these issues, but now you have no choice. NOW you will experience the full power of the dark side:



You were so eager to learn about this, my IDI friend. Yet you shrink from it. Why? Are the implications that awful?

But that is not the only subject that causes you discomfort. I quote from Chapter Four:

In his book, Det. Thomas states:

"In mid-September, a panel of pediatric experts from around the country reached one of the major conclusions of the investigation - that JonBenet had suffered vaginal trauma prior to the day she was killed. There were no dissenting opinions among them on the issue, and they firmly rejected any possibility that the trauma to the hymen and chronic vaginal inflammation were caused by urination issues or masturbation. We gathered affidavits stating in clear language that there were injuries 'consistent with prior trauma and sexual abuse' ' There was chronic abuse'. . . 'Past violation of the vagina'. . .'Evidence of both acute and injury and chronic sexual abuse.' In other words, the doctors were saying it had happened before."

Thomas does not name these experts. But other sources, including Schiller's book, do name them. Their names read as follows:

-Dr. James Monteleone, Professor of Pediatrics at St. Louis University School of Medicine (and Director of Child Protection Cardinal Glennon Children's Hospital);

-Dr. David Jones, Professor of Preventative Medicine and Biometrics at University of Colorado Health Sciences Center;

-Dr. Ronald Wright, former Medical Examiner, Cook County Illinois;

-Dr. Virginia Rau of Dade County, Florida;

-and Dr. John McCann, Clinical Professor of Medicine, Department. of Pediatrics at University of California at Davis. McCann is considered by many to be the world's leading authority on child sexual abuse. In fact, he was instrumental in establishing the proper methods and findings for determining child sexual abuse. His findings have been crucial in preventing misdiagnosis of child sexual abuse.

McCann was contacted in mid-1997 to give a report for the police department. His findings were written down in the police reports and later transcribed by Bonita Sauer, a Denver legal secretary:

"According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet."


"There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim."

"The examination results were evidence that there was at least one prior penetration of the vagina through the hymeneal membrane. The change in the hymeneal structure is due to healing from a prior penetration. However, it was not possible to determine the number of incidents nor over what period of time. Because the prior injury had healed, any other incidents of abuse probably were more than 10 days prior."

I sense great fear in you, voynich. You have hate, you have anger. But you don't use them.

One shall stand. One shall fall.

Honestly this isn't something i thought much about.

I don't have much to say on this other than that for all we know, JB was playing doctor with Burke. Hell maybe ARDI met JB and A at West Dance. What is the minimum amount of work needed to create those findings? Have other md's also weighed in?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Hi Hotyh.

as far as B&E goes, anyone with the know how who had occasion to enter the Ramsey's home could have modified the lock mechanism on the window for their future access.

Bump key would do well.
"One bump key will work for all locks of the same ..."
utilize lock picking, prolly take a minute?

Wasn't there some sort of open house or walk-through?

 

[BBB167893]

So if AR what aspects of the report, esp from 48 hours, is RST?

Would you like me to nitpick the whole thing?

what's over active imagination to say a guy that can rape Amy in her house with parent present could also get JB?

I'm not necessarily saying that it's overactive imagination to say it could happen, voynich. What I'm saying is if I were in his position, my first thought probably wouldn't be to try and ride the coattails of a famous case.

 

[BBB167893]

What are the facts of Amy's rape, and we can compare that with the facts of JB's rape.

That's just it, voynich. JB wasn't raped.

What does your beloved CASKU say about Amy's rapist?

You'd have to ask them.

What's AR doing now?

Nothing good, I imagine.

 

[BBB167893]

From the DA's exhoneration letter:

"One of the results of their efforts was that they identified genetic material and a DNA profile from drops of JonBenet’s blood located in the crotch of the underwear she was wearing at the time her body was discovered."

I'd say I've made my feelings pretty clear on what that was worth.

Just so I can keep RDI straight, you're supposing that old DNA was already in the underwear and went into solution with the blood?

Yes I Am. Not only me.

Further, the DNA predicted to be on her waistband, positively found on the waistband, RDI believes was deposited innocently, despite the same DNA in solution with JBR's blood?

You're keeping up so far.

Its possible this was a great breakthrough, generated by a clever, progressive idea: test for coded DNA match specifically on waistband using newly available technique.

The condition of the DNA speaks for itself.

I think RDI may not only have sold a discovery in JBR's murder short. Instead of giving the DA's office credit for discovery, insinuate an impropriety of some sort.

I didn't mean to insinuate it. I meant to say it straight out.

The media gave credit.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

 

[BBB167893]

Hi SD.

The markers that could be identified matched up with the corresponding markers in the other sample. But, since a lot of DNA is identical, you can see the problem.- SD

Is that a certainty?

Close to it, far as I know.

With the 10 to 13 loci used as a comparative wouldn't 3 matching strands? reflect some quantity or propability of distribution within a pop group?

That's certainly the spin that's been put on it, Tadpole. But what you have to remember is that there's a reason why they use a relatively high number like 13.

 

[BBB167893]

Honestly this isn't something i thought much about.

I know. My point for you to think about it.

I don't have much to say on this other than that for all we know, JB was playing doctor with Burke.

I've considered that.

Hell maybe ARDI met JB and A at West Dance.

This is starting to get interesting!

What is the minimum amount of work needed to create those findings?

I've heard some estimates of two weeks.

Have other md's also weighed in?

You'd better believe it! What I gave you there was just a starter.

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi voynich.

Honestly this isn't something i thought much about.

I don't have much to say on this other than that for all we know, JB was playing doctor with Burke.?

a possibility.

Hell maybe ARDI met JB and A at West Dance. What is the minimum amount of work needed to create those findings?

could you expand on that q?

Have other md's also weighed in?

as described in SD's post, the noted observations are the medical standard for sexual abuse.

 

[Tadpole12]

Close to it, far as I know.



That's certainly the spin that's been put on it, Tadpole. But what you have to remember is that there's a reason why they use a relatively high number like 13.

Hey SD.

Firstly, props to you SD.
Don't be sensitive. You're a limitless resource, and not underappreciated.
Uhmm ya, twisting your words? sometimes gotta check out all the angles?
press a little bit?

I'll have to read more about dna. TTD

 

[Tadpole12]

Wasn't there some sort of open house or walk-through?

yep. Part of Christmas tour.

 

[BBB167893]

Hey SD.

Firstly, props to you SD.
Don't be sensitive. You're a limitless resource, and not underappreciated.

Yeah, sometimes I do tend to go off the handle. Thanks.

Uhmm ya, twisting your words? sometimes gotta check out all the angles?
press a little bit?

I have no problem with that. It's when people say I said something I didn't say that I get riled.

I'll have to read more about dna. TTD

So will I, it seems.

 

[voynich]

Would you like me to nitpick the whole thing?



I'm not necessarily saying that it's overactive imagination to say it could happen, voynich. What I'm saying is if I were in his position, my first thought probably wouldn't be to try and ride the coattails of a famous case.

sure let's nitpick. what really happaned to Amy and whether this has any bearing to JB, and your sources.

Yes mine are CBS

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

yep. Part of Christmas tour.

We'll need more specifics on that. Whats a Christmas tour at the R's anyway? Only this year, every year?

 

[BBB167893]

sure let's nitpick.

All right. Let's have at it.

what really happened to Amy and whether this has any bearing to JB, and your sources.

I'm at something of a disadvantage there, voynich. But I'll do my best.

Yes mine are CBS

Okay.

 

[Ravyn]

Originally Posted by SuperDave
There's a CO resident named Tom Miller. He is, or at least was, a lawyer and a court-certified handwriting expert. After several weeks of study, he came to a conclusion as to who wrote the RN: PR did. That's when Team R swung into action.

The Rs claimed for several years that the private investigators they had hired were only to hunt down leads the BPD were "ignoring." But what they were really doing was just what I said. Miller was roped, under false pretenses, into meeting with one of the Rs' hired experts. It turned out to be a set-up. The man who asked him to come along was a tabloid writer who tried to bribe the Rs' man for an RN copy.

Miller was arrested and charged. Now, THIS is where things get interesting. The Jefferson County DA, David Thomas, was friends with Hal Haddon, the Ramsey lawyer. In fact, they owed each other political favors. Haddon made a call to Thomas and asked him to make sure that Miller would be damaged goods if he were ever called to testify in court as to his conclusions, which was a possibility since he was well-known to the local judges and lawyers. The Jefferson DA offered Miller a plea-bargain. Voynich mentioned the Godfather. Apropos, certainly. But instead of an offer he couldn't refuse, the deal was an offer no spirited man could ever accept. The deal was, if Miller wanted to avoid a trial and possible jail time, he'd have to give up his law license and discredit his own status as a document examiner.

Miller told them to stuff their deal. So, he went to trial in 2001. At the trial, Miller's lawyer pulled off a real coup. He subpoenaed one of the private investigators responsible, a man named David L. Williams, and got him to admit in open court that he was told by Haddon's office to dig up dirt on Miller to use against him if he were ever called to testify as to who he thought wrote the RN. Williams also admitted that he himself was just doing his job, and that the real dirty tricks were thought up at a higher level.

It took the jury less than an hour to find Miller not guilty. And just in case anyone thinks I'm just making this up, the transcript of the trial is available on Compact Disc under the title Salute to American Justice. Look for it on eBay. Or, if you wait a little, I can try (no promises) to post it here from my copy.

As a coda to this story, later that year, JR was deposed in a civil trial. During that deposition, he admitted that his earlier statements were knowingly false. The private eyes were never meant to follow up on leads. Their job was to build a defense in case the Rs were ever brought to trial. To use JR's words, to "keep us out of jail."


Voynich, or any IDI, I would like the IDI's point of view here..This blew my mind just want input plz..