Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[Tadpole12]

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

4. ..........................................At this time we have
5. your daughter in our posession.

"In lines #4 and #5, the writer tells us "...we have your daughter in our possession." Remember that the shortest way to say something is the best way to state it. A true kidnapper would have said, "We have your daughter." The words "in our possession" are understood and unnecessary. This wordiness shows us that someone was trying to make this look like a kidnapping."

 

[Tadpole12]

possession (fr):

common usage as a noun http://www.wordreference.com/fren/possession

compound form: en votre possession = in your possession


to be in possession, to have in ones possession
http://dictionnaire.sensagent.com/être+en+possession/fr-fr/

 

[Tadpole12]

So maybe the redundacy of thought is instead the result of a simplistic translation ...

nous avons we have

votre fille your daughter

en notre possession in our posession

 

[Tadpole12]

re: watching over

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

"In line #19, we have an unnecessary word, "over."
17. Any deviation of my instructions will result in the immediate 18. execution of your daughter. You will also be denied her remains19. for proper burial. The two gentlemen watching over your daughter"


garder: http://www.wordreference.com/fren/garder


en español | in context | images
conjugator
Pocket Oxford-Hachette French Dictionary © 2005 Oxford University Press:




garder /gaʀde/ (conjugate⇒)

1. transitive verb
   1. to keep [object];
      to keep on [hat, sweater];
      to keep on [employee];
   1. [soldier] to guard;
      [person] to look after.

1. se garder reflexive verb (+ v être)
   1. se ~ de faire to be careful not to do;
   1. [foodstuff] to keep.

Subscribe to the Oxford Concise or Unabridged dictionary for more translations, meanings and examples.

'garder' found in these entries: French: contact - distance - donner - incognito - ligne - lit - longtemps - poire - sérieux - soi - souvenir

English: apart - care - clear - cool - distance - guard - handy - head - hold - hostage - keep - lie - look - mind - perspective - preserve - quiet - ransom - remain - retain - save - spirit - straight - watch - wrap


garder: WordReference English-French Dictionary © 2009

Principal Translations/Principales traductions

garder ⇒ v hang on (retain)
garder (Veiller sur qqun) v tr look after

Additional Translations:

garder v keep (an eye on)
garder v take care of (watch over)

 

[Tadpole12]

Watching over:


watching over, no exact translation
http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/watching%20over%20

aplication of :http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=807730

but the term 'watching over' does appear, as descriptive term, in the english translation of the the french verb 'garder : to have, to keep

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/garder v take care of (watch over)

 

[JMO8778]

I recall in one analysis,the 'watching over' is thought to refer to a dead person,otherwise it would have just been simply 'watching' her....thus the writer already knew JB was dead..as Patsy would have known.
Combine that with the 'beheaded' comment...so the author not only knows JB is dead,but also specifically what injuries she has.(head and neck).

And the author is also concerned about a 'proper burial' (as a parent would be).

..and the 'SFF' may be mean and threaten to behead ppl,but by golly,they're also polite 'gentlemen'.what good manners they must have! I bet they even say please and thank you.they must be from the south (as Patsy was )

 

[Tadpole12]

Hi JMO.

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

yes. That same concept is part of the sourced statement analysis.

"Unnecessary words are words that can be taken out of the sentence, and yet the sentence still makes sense. The writer could have stated, "The two gentlemen watching your daughter." By including the extra word, the writer is including extra information. What is the difference between watching someone and watching over someone? The best example I can think of is in reference to God. If I say that God is watching over me, I visualize God keeping his distance. He sees me, but he also see the entire world at the same time. He can see me because I am part of the world. While He is watching over me He is also watching over others. The word "over" means God is spreading His watchful eye upon the earth. However, if I say that God is watching me it becomes more personal. Even though He can see the entire world, He is focusing His attention on me. Another example would be if a friend asked you to "watch over" his house while he was out of town. In this case, he probably wants you to stop by every once in a while and make sure everything is okay. Maybe you will pick up his mail and water his plants. However, if he asked you to "watch" his house he probably wants you to housesit. He wants you to be there where you can keep a close eye on things.

In a kidnapping, the kidnappers should be "watching" the abductee. They will want to keep a close eye on her. They want to make sure she doesn't escape or alert someone that she needs help. They will want to make sure she doesn't harm herself if her being alive is dependent upon them receiving the ransom. When the writer of the ransom note said they were "watching over" JonBenet, the writer was telling us they were not keeping a close eye on her. There are only two reasons why you would not closely watch your hostage: 1. If you knew for certain she was alright and could not escape; 2. If you knew she was dead. Since a dead body isn't going anywhere, it is something you "watch over." Based on the language used, it appears the writer knew JonBenet was dead when writing the ransom note.

Line #19 continues on stating "The two men watching over your daughter do not particularly like you...." When we look at a copy of the ransom note, we find the writer originally wrote "....do particularly like you...." The word "not" was then written above the space between the words "do" and "particularly." A line was then drawn indicating the word "not" should be inserted between these two words. A true kidnapper would not make the mistake of saying these gentlemen do like you."

 

[Tadpole12]

Ever since I ran the ransom note through a french-english translator (word lingo), and noticed how readable and fluid it was in translated form (french), I began wondering why?

I mean, I had always read it, looked at it in an english sense? until I ran it through wordlingo and then began thinking about it, the words, in french thought .... but it's not exactly french thought .... or atleast I don't believe it was thought of in french. But the ransom note does have that half *advertiser censored* backwards tone that is often produced when translating french to english.

Why those "unecessary" words?

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

"Unnecessary words are words that can be taken out of the sentence, and yet the sentence still makes sense. The writer could have stated, "The two gentlemen watching your daughter." By including the extra word, the writer is including extra information. What is the difference between watching someone and watching over someone?

The best example I can think of is in reference to God."





Why those "unecessary" words?

The french tone ... the french (foreign) theme which runs throughout the note, it's not just a result of the somewhat out of place word 'attache' and the many words within the ransom note that are rooted in french/latin.

It's more than that.

Écoutez bien!
un groupe d'individus
une petite faction
respecte / deteste
à ce moment ( at this time )

 

[Tadpole12]

the rn has that odd structute ... flow ....

First draft was written/thought of in english,
and then key words/concepts were altered into a 'more' french sense by choosing a particular definition in english;
a description, variation/variations of a word, (definition from a french-english dictionary),
and then replacing the original 'english concept; with a synonym/ antonym/ definition in english.
rather than the original english concept.


Gee, does that make any sense at all?
I wish y'all could see that pattern
It's very observable within the first paragraph of the ransom note, and continues throughout the piece.

just like revamping an essay (in english) using a thesaurus.

 

[Tadpole12]

also noticeable, within the note in its entirity, are all the english concepts that are not translatable, have no parallells within the french language.

not just 'fat cats' ....

see 1997 .. to see a year
instructions to the letter.
pickup
talking to a stray dog
out smart us.
stand a chance
getting her back.
grow a brain
fat cat
good southern common sense
up to you

the english refernces, catch phrases? are perfect in form,
while the french concepts are out of place or mal fitted?

 

[BBB167893]

LOL.O my..you SO hit the nail on the head with that one...3.3 BILLION base pairs of nucleotides inside every microscopic human cell,and some ppl still can't see the truth when it's right in front of them.GREAT comparison! :clap::clap::clap:

I have my moments.

 

[DeeDee249]

The ransom note has never been a mystery to me. No analysis needed. Patsy wrote the note. End of story.

But analysis is always appreciated.

 

[Tadpole12]

The ransom note has never been a mystery to me. No analysis needed. Patsy wrote the note. End of story.

But analysis is always appreciated.

Hi DeeDee.


Ya, well I just had to get it out of my head, (I'm almost done) how the rn was tweaked.

I can't imagine anyone other than PR having this basic knowledge of the french language and intimate details of the Ramseys.
The 'errors' or remnants of the 'francais', they're not the typical mistakes made by a francophone, ie errors in pluralization, errors in concept/visual images of phrasing, errors in verbe tense .... there's none of that backwards speech that is evident among those who are fr-eng bilingual.

 

[Tadpole12]

okay ... one more thing ....

re: all the ifs within the rn




http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/
all those ifs, the condtional structure of the sentence.

6. if you want her to see 1997, you must follow our instructions to
7. the letter. (want, follow)

13. If we
14. monitor you getting the money early, we might call you
(monitor, call)

22. If we catch you
23. talking to a stray dog, she dies. (catch, dies)

23. If you alert bank authorities, she
24. dies. (alert, dies)

24. If the money is in any way marked or tampered with, she dies.
(is, dies)


25. if any are found, she
26. dies. (are, dies)



27. You stand a 99%
28. chance of killing your daughter if you try to out smart us. (try,
stand)

first conditional, If .... present + present.
Si .... present + present


Si clauses and French Conditionals
http://french.about.com/library/weekly/aa090699.htm


There are three main types of si clauses:

1. First conditional: Likely situations (present or passé composé + present, future, or imperative)
   

 

[Tadpole12]

Those si clauses, fundamentals in learning the french language, the conditional si present + present, don't alway translate nicely into English, esp. from spoken french .... sounds primary? choppy when spoken.

It may just be coincidental ... as the note is instructive and conditional.

 

[Tadpole12]

yet another observation, re french, foreigness of note



http://njspmuseum.blogspot.com/2008/02/one-of-most-fascinating-areas-of-study.html

The Linberg rn: "An additional point of trivia: the Nursery Note is the only note with German punctuation in the salutation – the exclamation mark after Dear Sir!"

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

1. "Mr. Ramsey.
2. Listen carefully!


Écoutez bien! = listen carefully. http://www.wordreference.com/enfr/listen
listen well (pay attention)vbien écouter ⇒

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/écouter
Compound Forms/Formes composéesbien écoutervlisten well (pay attention)



listen!interjÉcoute ! (ou: écoutez !)listen!vécoutez! (ou "écoute!")



It's one of those rules in general, it requires an exclamation mark. Something you learn in french, as a child as it is an exception to the rule.

 

[Tadpole12]

Ecouter Bien!

It's one of those expressions that is used all the time
when you're yelling at someone over the phone (so an argumentative tone) or when you're kidding around with your friends ... (uhmmn ....well kinda like yelling it ... cause french people are passionate in conversation, but it's funny/amusing to say in that circumstance, when you're gesting.

 

[DeeDee249]

Ecouter Bien!

It's one of those expressions that is used all the time
when you're yelling at someone over the phone (so an argumentative tone) or when you're kidding around with your friends ... (uhmmn ....well kinda like yelling it ... cause french people are passionate in conversation, but it's funny/amusing to say in that circumstance, when you're gesting.

Doesn't it translate as "Listen well"? I remember Soeur Marguerite, my high school honors French teacher, using that phrase quite frequently.

 

[Tadpole12]

Doesn't it translate as "Listen well"? I remember Soeur Marguerite, my high school honors French teacher, using that phrase quite frequently.

Hi DeeDee.

Yes the exact translation is well.
But it also kinda means shut up and listen, in casual conversation, like listen to me, or like listen up ....... to stfu you're full of it, in an endearing way.

And for sure if Soeur Marguerite says that you had better listen well, polite interpretation.

But I was going along the lines of synonyms,
interchangeable phrasing, (french english dictionary)

Ecoutez! has that !

one of the few french expressions that is accompanied by that tpye of punctuation.

and well, it is something a french teacher would say!



Ecoutez! Listen, throw in the qualifier 'carefully' and an exclamation mark and it has a french quality.

 

[Tadpole12]

Wow Wiki is ausome, everything is to be found there.

even more obervations about the rn.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/French/Appendices/Phrasebook

Phrasebook,

French

Singular french Monsieur
Plural french Messieurs.


English, Usage

Mr., Sir
Gentlemen