Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[BOESP]

BOESP,
Its entirely possible that Lou Smit, once briefed by the DA, simply played along with the Ramsey's, in an attempt to acquire inside information. Hence the communal praying, etc. [snip]

Thanks. You said it better than I did. :rocker:

[snip]
If you consider Lou Smit unprofessional wrt claiming the R's innocent, just consider his use of the forensic evidence, which was used in various documentaries, he treated it as his own property. Does that not suggest Lou Smit was engaged in a process that was independent of the BPD investigation into the death of JonBenet?

Yes, it suggests just that. It bothers me that someone at his level turned such a blind eye or else was just too old to be on the case period. Our state has a mandatory retirement at age 55. I used to wonder why and now I know. This does not apply to PI's but why would the DA's office hire someone whose age and condition was past prime? Yeah, I know. $$$$$

I guess I am still one of the people who wants to believe Superman still exists when I know he doesn't.

 

[BOESP]

Linda7NJ,
[snip]If the Ramsey's were poor, and it was a BDI, then a similar process might have unfolded with similar results, and all the paperwork might have been tailored to suit minor confidentiality etc. But with the R's being millionares this can offer another reason why much due process was overlooked, lost or ignored?

It is curious that Kolar, who has read and listened to the Grand Jury stuff, is able to publish a book that offers such an obvious conclusion?


.

I think part of the reason things weren't ignored was the Ramsey PR productions put Patsy in the spotlight and kept her and JonBenet in the public eye for a longggggg time. I think Patsy liked the attention and John seems to have learned to like it.

I'm on Chapter Eight of Kolar's book.

 

[midwest mama]

I think part of the reason things weren't ignored was the Ramsey PR productions put Patsy in the spotlight and kept her and JonBenet in the public eye for a longggggg time. I think Patsy liked the attention and John seems to have learned to like it.

I'm on Chapter Eight of Kolar's book.

Yep.
The 'more' Patsy, the 'less' John.

Hope you're liking and learning during your read of Kolar's book. Hint: keep JR in mind as you go, and remember Kolar's pretty experienced after all his years in dealing with the criminal element.

 

[Whaleshark]

Whaleshark, although I agree with you about the staging (but not for protecting Burke, I think it was all about protecting Ramsey image- but I admit there are parents like the Anthony's), why does it only have to be BDI vs. IDI, or PDI vs. IDI??? I am an RDI and more specifically JDI! I believe John did the killing and Patsy was in on the staging. Why is that so difficult to believe?

I don't remember exactly what I was responding to in this.... but I CAN tell you that it does not ONLY have to be BDI vs IDI, or PDI vs IDI. I never said that it did.

I am not one who has a definite theory. I think it can be all of them, including JDI. If in that discussion, I was speculating the BDI theory, it doesn't mean I was saying it was ONLY BDI. I, of all people, consider ALL the possibilities. So, not sure why you thought I was saying ONLY P or B. And, no, of course it's not so difficult to believe that John killed and Patsy was in on the staging. Perhaps you have not read all my previous posts? I am not one or the other theory. I vote all the theories are possibilities. I even say that the handwriting looks like JR, but I think it looks like a combo of JR and PR, with both of them not only authoring the content, but physically writing it.

So, perhaps you need to read more of my posts?

I am not committed to any theory; I consider all.

 

[midwest mama]

Yep, a combo note makes the most sense to me, and RDI is all we really need to charge and prosecute John, since he's the only one who can stand trial, isn't it??

 

[Bonnette]

I agree...they were all involved, which makes all of them culpable.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Yep, a combo note makes the most sense to me, and RDI is all we really need to charge and prosecute John, since he's the only one who can stand trial, isn't it??

You need a theory of the crime, who did what. Without ..,.ya got nothing.
There is just too much reasonable doubt.
You are stuck with the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

either the cross finger pointing defense or the always popular "some other dude did it" will win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[madeleine]

You need a theory of the crime, who did what. Without ..,.ya got nothing.
There is just too much reasonable doubt.
You are stuck with the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

either the cross finger pointing defense or the always popular "some other dude did it" will win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly ITA....there will NEVER be a prosecution in this case,never,I am sure of it now.
The "owl did it" :moo:

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

has been there any reaction from the R´s as Colar tells in his book about no perp?
was there any interview in the last months about it?
TIA
Heidi

 

[midwest mama]

has been there any reaction from the R´s as Colar tells in his book about no perp?
was there any interview in the last months about it?
TIA
Heidi

Nada. Zip. Zero! If Kolar would become one of the RST victims and end up in a lawsuit, AT LEAST there would be the possibility of opening up a can of worms. I don't think that's anything the RST wants to risk! But Kolar would sure be our SuperHero for putting himself out there, wouldn't he? :rocker:

 

[Chrishope]

Nada. Zip. Zero! If Kolar would become one of the RST victims and end up in a lawsuit, AT LEAST there would be the possibility of opening up a can of worms. I don't think that's anything the RST wants to risk! But Kolar would sure be our SuperHero for putting himself out there, wouldn't he? :rocker:

I agree. For the RST silence is the best thing. At this point, the media has given Kolar relatively little attention. It's an old case and only a small group of people -US, the people w/o a life , are paying attention to the case.

 

[midwest mama]

I agree. For the RST silence is the best thing. At this point, the media has given Kolar relatively little attention. It's an old case and only a small group of people -US, the people w/o a life , are paying attention to the case.

Maybe that's what it's going to take - those of us 'without a life' to help those who are without a life. Poor JonBenet. :tears:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I agree. For the RST silence is the best thing. At this point, the media has given Kolar relatively little attention. It's an old case and only a small group of people -US, the people w/o a life , are paying attention to the case.

But the media gave John Ramsey lots of attention for his book and his comments about T&T....

ETA: But I can't blame the media for not talking about a book if the author isn't promoting it. It's like that with any product. It's very rare for media outlets to talk about a new book/movie/song/CD without someone directly connected to the product being interviewed about it. So my question is: Has Kolar tried to get on TV shows but has been turned down?

 

[azwriter]

But the media gave John Ramsey lots of attention for his book and his comments about T&T....

ETA: But I can't blame the media for not talking about a book if the author isn't promoting it. It's like that with any product. It's very rare for media outlets to talk about a new book/movie/song/CD without someone directly connected to the product being interviewed about it. So my question is: Has Kolar tried to get on TV shows but has been turned down?

Good question eileenhawkeye. Didn't Kolar self-publish this book? If he did, he doesn't have a promotion department of a big publishing house behind the sale of the book. He could however, hire a public relations firm to help promote the book. Certainly the first act would be to get him and his book on a tour for radio, television and print interviews.

I read the book and while it was interesting to hear about the behind-the-scenes police work and how he was involved, I didn't really learn anything new. (Outside the presence of poop everywhere). But that could be because I've been a BDI from way back. And, I'm going to stand there.

I shake my head with I look back and realize I have been glued to this case for all these years.

jmo

 

[Chrishope]

But the media gave John Ramsey lots of attention for his book and his comments about T&T....

ETA: But I can't blame the media for not talking about a book if the author isn't promoting it. It's like that with any product. It's very rare for media outlets to talk about a new book/movie/song/CD without someone directly connected to the product being interviewed about it. So my question is: Has Kolar tried to get on TV shows but has been turned down?

I don't know the answer to that question. A self-published book just isn't going to get the attention that a big publishing house can get. Kolar doesn't have a PR machine behind him.

We may as well be honest about Kolar's book - it really tells us relatively little we didn't already know. It doesn't blow the case apart. There isn't really all that much to report on, so I understand the media not giving it a lot of attention.

 

[midwest mama]

I don't know the answer to that question. A self-published book just isn't going to get the attention that a big publishing house can get. Kolar doesn't have a PR machine behind him.

We may as well be honest about Kolar's book - it really tells us relatively little we didn't already know. It doesn't blow the case apart. There isn't really all that much to report on, so I understand the media not giving it a lot of attention.

Chrishope: Luv ya, but want to point out these things that Kolar's book did:


>Rebutted the Intruder Theory very effectively.

>Rebutted the use of a stun gun on JB.

>Introduced the subject of the children's extraordinary toilet habits, (adding the fecal issues) establishing a clear history of the probability of previous sexual abuse of JonBenet by a family member(s).

>Revealed a statement by M. Lacey that should indicate her (then) lack of fair and balanced ability to preside over the case in the best interests of a murdered child and the citizens of the state of CO.

>Supplied some clear copies of correspondence and legal documents that most likely have not been seen by the greater population of Boulder, CO., which could inform citizens about the overall credibility of their appointed and also elected officials not just in Boulder, but perhaps up the chain even higher.

>Reinforced the validity of the option to PROSECUTE this case, substantiated by a Theory that has been placed into the hands of the current DA and police chief, to which there has been no clear public response or action.

Now, for those of us who are following this case rabidly, as you say, quite a bit of the information is 'yesterday's news'. But this book has also been touted as an easy read and one of the best for bringing a newcomer interested in the case up to speed. We sleuthers and case junkies don't need much information to reach out and buy another book about the case.

BUT FOR THE UNKNOWING GENERAL PUBLIC, especially those in Boulder and Colorado who deserve to know most of the accuracy surrounding this case - those who just might find themselves incensed enough to start rattling some important cages within the justice system, Kolar's book is a gem, and it would send flames of enlightenment into the public. It only takes one spark to start a fire!

The only way to inform those who are not currently in the know about this case is to get the information out within a broader spectrum of the General Public. And that means media coverage, book signings, lectures, etc. A good 'PR machine' would get the job done, but it would be pricey...
unless one with an extra shred of righteousness in their bones would be willing to take on the job pro bono, or perhaps for a delayed cut of profits from a specified time period of Kolar's future endeavors. Of course, they'd have to be awfully clever warriors - fighting the RST wouldn't be an easy job!

 

[Anyhoo]

I still say the Ramsey's are involved in the crime/cover-up but not directly involved. I know I am in the minority on this here and I am fine with that. Intuition tells me now as it has always told me about this crime that it is not as simple as it appears to be. For those here who are confident they know what happened or who did it or how it happened, I would suggest you think again because you don't know what you think you know.

 

[midwest mama]

I still say the Ramsey's are involved in the crime/cover-up but not directly involved. I know I am in the minority on this here and I am fine with that. Intuition tells me now as it has always told me about this crime that it is not as simple as it appears to be. For those here who are confident they know what happened or who did it or how it happened, I would suggest you think again because you don't know what you think you know.

According to ST book, in the early years of the investigation, the BPD was prepared to bring charges against John and Patsy Ramsey based on probable cause. If the evidence they have, or any that we've all seen, hasn't changed, why can't that still be the case, minus Patsy. She's already faced charges and been judged by the Most Just of all.

Jim Kolar prepared a Theory of Prosecution, which is in the hands of the BPD.

A trial just might get this case resolved.

 

[Anyhoo]

According to ST book, in the early years of the investigation, the BPD was prepared to bring charges against John and Patsy Ramsey based on probable cause. If the evidence they have, or any that we've all seen, hasn't changed, why can't that still be the case, minus Patsy. She's already faced charges and been judged by the Most Just of all.

Jim Kolar prepared a Theory of Prosecution, which is in the hands of the BPD.

A trial just might get this case resolved.

Even though you don't address what I am trying to say, I will address what you are saying: What the BPD was doing years ago is totally irrevelent. The Boulder DA has exonerated both Ramseys, even going so far as to publicly apologize to JR for even considering him a suspect. After doing that, it would be almost impossible for them to go back and charge JR for this crime. To do so would be a total loss of face and credibility for the DA. So common sense says that there will be no future trial, at least not against JR. For all intents and purposes, the door has been effectively closed on doing that. Why can't you see that?

 

[midwest mama]

Even though you don't address what I am trying to say, I will address what you are saying: What the BPD was doing years ago is totally irrevelent. The Boulder DA has exonerated both Ramseys, even going so far as to publicly apologize to JR for even considering him a suspect. After doing that, it would be almost impossible for them to go back and charge JR for this crime. To do so would be a total loss of face and credibility for the DA. So common sense says that there will be no future trial, at least not against JR. For all intents and purposes, the door has been effectively closed on doing that. Why can't you see that?

Anyhoo, I am open to getting to a resolve on the commission of this crime in whatever way it can happen.

I want to believe that the current DA in Boulder would have the guts to prosecute this case with enough probable cause, since there is PLENTY of common knowledge that former DA's were lucky not to have their butts taken to task by agencies higher up for obstruction of justice, collusion, and any other bogus junk they did for getting in the way of prosecution. Hunter and Lacy ended up with careers in the dumper along with any respectable credibility they thought they had.

And if I remember correctly, the Ramsey's were UN-Exonerated, and have NEVER been cleared. There is something about Garnett that gives me hope he would not want to follow the same path, and would also have the ability to handle this case WITHOUT bringing any more harm to any of Boulder's finest. Besides, how much more damage could be done, and wouldn't they stand to finally glean a great deal of importance if they were to be able to close this case once and for all?

As for anyone not knowing what we think we know, what is it you want us to know? I can entertain a RADI theory (Acquaintance) even with Ramsey forensic evidence being so prominent in the case, because of the aspects of evidence that are NOT forensically tied to them. I cannot dismiss the involvement of the Ramseys, with at least what has been called a cover-up displaying so much direct Ramsey evidence.

Being aware of evil that is beyond the imagined grasp of some, it would never surprise me that there are aspects of this case that are out of the realm of most to accept or acknowledge. But until someone, somewhere leaks something that can absolutely be tied to a specific individual other than the two initial chargeable suspects (JR and PR) which were once on the hot seat, OR THE AVAILABLE evidence changes, I still feel, as do many others, that JR is culpable in this case and that a trial is the only way possible to bring it to resolution.

Time gone by does not change the fact that BPD had probable cause based upon factual evidence. What changed the case over the years was the involvement of corruption from those who got away with it. It it PAST TIME for the right thing to be done - bring charges in a case where enough evidence already exists for probable cause. :furious: