Are the Ramseys involved or not?

[UKGuy]

I know what you mean. If I am going to err, I am going to err on the side of the Ramseys not being guilty.

There is not nearly enough evidence for me to feel comfortable pointing my finger at the bereaved parents (or bereaved parent) of a brutally murdered child. Indeed, if I were to wager on the absolute truth, I'd bet heavily on this being a burglary gone bad with none of the Ramseys having anything to do with the death of JonBenet.

Edmond.DantesIII,
There is absolutely no forensic evidence that links to any person outside of the Ramsey Household, i.e. no intruder. All three Ramseys are linked to forensic evidence found in the wine-cellar.

.

 

[BOESP]

The most glaring evidence that points to PR's involvement, IMO, is the ransom note. On the other hand, the main thing that points away from PR's involvement, at least to me, is the 911. She was very convincing. But I just thought of something and made a little connection. Remember the interview where PR's lip was quivering and she said someone was out there? Well, I couldn't quite put my finger on why, but this interview made me very uncomfortable, and I didn't buy her anguish.This is what I think made the difference. In the interview, we heard her voice and saw her facial expressions, while on the 911, we only heard her voice. Thinking about this made me wonder what her face was doing during the 911. IMO, if we had seen her facials, her performance wouldn't have been anymore believable than the interview. I found a little clip of the interview on youtube, and listened without watching, and I have to say, IMO, her voice was more believable without the facial contortions.

Patsy's hyperventilating during the 911 call is what convinced me she was acting.

 

[Nom de plume]

Patsy's hyperventilating during the 911 call is what convinced me she was acting.

Everyone keeps saying what a great actress she was. I'm sorry, I just don't see it. She never would have made it as a professional. I thought the whole call sounded phony. You're right, the hyperventilating was too over the top. Sooooo much drama from that woman!

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Edmond.DantesIII,
There is absolutely no forensic evidence that links to any person outside of the Ramsey Household, i.e. no intruder. All three Ramseys are linked to forensic evidence found in the wine-cellar.

.

That was my quote that he was responding too. But of course all they are all linked. It was their house. Their stuff, hair, fibers, dna should be everywhere. that to me does not exclude someone else. How many crimes are there where there is little to no evidence left from an intruder?

You only have to watch CSI to figure out how to do your best not to leave a trace.

 

[stumpybear]

> Just got done reading the Steve Thomas book. First book I have read in a long time. First of all I would like to set the tone by saying I had twin sons in a car accident and lost one and the other was in a coma but survived. Just saying that cause I know what it is to lose a child and the moment you find out and then after. Without describing each moment the Ramsey's did not show the reaction just finding your child in that state, with a rope on the neck etc. Enough said!!!!! That being said the Ramsey's reaction to the death just seems inconsistent when losing a child. Getting to the point of what I think may have happened. On Christmas night John Ramsey said he read a story to his little girl stated by the 3 detective in the home but later changed his story. So Mr. Ramsey is reading the story he makes an sexual advance toward the little girl and for some reason this time JonB was not going to let it happen. If she screamed and John reacted by the blow to the head. And was so outraged that he decided to tie a cord around her neck and kill her cause he did not want anyone to know what he had been doing all the time to JonB. He was in charge of the room, the home and everything that happened from then on as I take him to be a man in charge. Patsy hears the scream and comes in to whiteness John with the rage he has just killed his daughter. John was not going to let the his abuse toward JonB get out and ruin his reputation or his life. He says the same thing will happen to you if you say anything and After he settles Patsy down and feeds her all the information he wants her to know he tells her to write the note and directs her into what to write. Patsy is crying and tears falling on the pages so she is forced to start over. (Has the note ever been checked for tear DNA) Hence comes the $118,000. Patsy's handwriting and all that lead her to the note. Meanwhile JonB is still in the bedroom as the note is being written and the plan is staged by John. John Tells Patsy to take JonB's red top off and wash it cause there may have been some blood or incriminating evidence on it. Putting another top on JonB Patsy listens. John tells Patsy to wrap the child in a blanket and he would take the body to the basement. After the stage is set and all is covered the 911 call is made. In that period Burke wakes with the commotion but is told to go back to bed everything is ok. That is why John was able to carry that body back upstairs and not be devastated by the way his daughter was killed and looked. He had seen the body and knew what to expect. He was determined not to let anything get in his way of success and ruining his life. Not even his family! After the 911 call was made John takes the shower to once again make sure he has no evidence what had just happened on him. After that it was history. Patsy is the patsy! John is in control and remains. The comparison the way he reacted when his daughter Beth was killed and the way he reacts to JonB is just unbelievable. The reason goes back to the way I stared the post and the moment you hear your child is dead let alone laying on the floor right in front of you there is no feeling like that....

 

[Nom de plume]

> Just got done reading the Steve Thomas book. First book I have read in a long time. First of all I would like to set the tone by saying I had twin sons in a car accident and lost one and the other was in a coma but survived. Just saying that cause I know what it is to lose a child and the moment you find out and then after. Without describing each moment the Ramsey's did not show the reaction just finding your child in that state, with a rope on the neck etc. Enough said!!!!! That being said the Ramsey's reaction to the death just seems inconsistent when losing a child. Getting to the point of what I think may have happened. On Christmas night John Ramsey said he read a story to his little girl stated by the 3 detective in the home but later changed his story. So Mr. Ramsey is reading the story he makes an sexual advance toward the little girl and for some reason this time JonB was not going to let it happen. If she screamed and John reacted by the blow to the head. And was so outraged that he decided to tie a cord around her neck and kill her cause he did not want anyone to know what he had been doing all the time to JonB. He was in charge of the room, the home and everything that happened from then on as I take him to be a man in charge. Patsy hears the scream and comes in to whiteness John with the rage he has just killed his daughter. John was not going to let the his abuse toward JonB get out and ruin his reputation or his life. He says the same thing will happen to you if you say anything and After he settles Patsy down and feeds her all the information he wants her to know he tells her to write the note and directs her into what to write. Patsy is crying and tears falling on the pages so she is forced to start over. (Has the note ever been checked for tear DNA) Hence comes the $118,000. Patsy's handwriting and all that lead her to the note. Meanwhile JonB is still in the bedroom as the note is being written and the plan is staged by John. John Tells Patsy to take JonB's red top off and wash it cause there may have been some blood or incriminating evidence on it. Putting another top on JonB Patsy listens. John tells Patsy to wrap the child in a blanket and he would take the body to the basement. After the stage is set and all is covered the 911 call is made. In that period Burke wakes with the commotion but is told to go back to bed everything is ok. That is why John was able to carry that body back upstairs and not be devastated by the way his daughter was killed and looked. He had seen the body and knew what to expect. He was determined not to let anything get in his way of success and ruining his life. Not even his family! After the 911 call was made John takes the shower to once again make sure he has no evidence what had just happened on him. After that it was history. Patsy is the patsy! John is in control and remains. The comparison the way he reacted when his daughter Beth was killed and the way he reacts to JonB is just unbelievable. The reason goes back to the way I stared the post and the moment you hear your child is dead let alone laying on the floor right in front of you there is no feeling like that....

:welcome6:

First let me say how sorry I am for the loss of your son. I share the same pain.

No, they didn't act like grieving partents did they? I agree with much of your theory. You and MM are very close in your theories. I still believe Patsy wrote the note, like you, but hadn't considered that she wrote it due to fear and intimidation.

 

[Lorelilly]

Does anyone remember an old forum dedicated specifically to this case and a group called STILLWATER? It consisted of a group of people, many in the medical community, that were located in several different countries. They were akin to Super Sleuths. They put together their theory of what happened to JonBenet and it was spellbinding. I can't find it anywhere. It was quite extensive and had input from many different angles. I believe the entire theory was published on that website in 1997 or 1998? If anyone has access to that, and if it hasn't already been discussed here, could you post it? I think it would encourage a whole new dialogue.

 

[CharlieBrown]

Does anyone remember an old forum dedicated specifically to this case and a group called STILLWATER? It consisted of a group of people, many in the medical community, that were located in several different countries. They were akin to Super Sleuths. They put together their theory of what happened to JonBenet and it was spellbinding. I can't find it anywhere. It was quite extensive and had input from many different angles. I believe the entire theory was published on that website in 1997 or 1998? If anyone has access to that, and if it hasn't already been discussed here, could you post it? I think it would encourage a whole new dialogue.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000611185520/http://quietsamantha.com/

 

[SunnieRN]

> Just got done reading the Steve Thomas book. First book I have read in a long time. First of all I would like to set the tone by saying I had twin sons in a car accident and lost one and the other was in a coma but survived. Just saying that cause I know what it is to lose a child and the moment you find out and then after. Without describing each moment the Ramsey's did not show the reaction just finding your child in that state, with a rope on the neck etc. Enough said!!!!! That being said the Ramsey's reaction to the death just seems inconsistent when losing a child. Getting to the point of what I think may have happened. On Christmas night John Ramsey said he read a story to his little girl stated by the 3 detective in the home but later changed his story. So Mr. Ramsey is reading the story he makes an sexual advance toward the little girl and for some reason this time JonB was not going to let it happen. If she screamed and John reacted by the blow to the head. And was so outraged that he decided to tie a cord around her neck and kill her cause he did not want anyone to know what he had been doing all the time to JonB. He was in charge of the room, the home and everything that happened from then on as I take him to be a man in charge. Patsy hears the scream and comes in to whiteness John with the rage he has just killed his daughter. John was not going to let the his abuse toward JonB get out and ruin his reputation or his life. He says the same thing will happen to you if you say anything and After he settles Patsy down and feeds her all the information he wants her to know he tells her to write the note and directs her into what to write. Patsy is crying and tears falling on the pages so she is forced to start over. (Has the note ever been checked for tear DNA) Hence comes the $118,000. Patsy's handwriting and all that lead her to the note. Meanwhile JonB is still in the bedroom as the note is being written and the plan is staged by John. John Tells Patsy to take JonB's red top off and wash it cause there may have been some blood or incriminating evidence on it. Putting another top on JonB Patsy listens. John tells Patsy to wrap the child in a blanket and he would take the body to the basement. After the stage is set and all is covered the 911 call is made. In that period Burke wakes with the commotion but is told to go back to bed everything is ok. That is why John was able to carry that body back upstairs and not be devastated by the way his daughter was killed and looked. He had seen the body and knew what to expect. He was determined not to let anything get in his way of success and ruining his life. Not even his family! After the 911 call was made John takes the shower to once again make sure he has no evidence what had just happened on him. After that it was history. Patsy is the patsy! John is in control and remains. The comparison the way he reacted when his daughter Beth was killed and the way he reacts to JonB is just unbelievable. The reason goes back to the way I stared the post and the moment you hear your child is dead let alone laying on the floor right in front of you there is no feeling like that....

:welcome: to Websleuths!! I am so sorry for your loss. A parent should never have to bury their child. I hope is your surviving son is doing alright?

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Patsy's hyperventilating during the 911 call is what convinced me she was acting.

Because no one hyperventilates upon finding that their six year-old daughter has been kidnapped, right?

 

[BOESP]

Because no one hyperventilates upon finding that their six year-old daughter has been kidnapped, right?

Spend some time at your local police department listening to some serious 911 calls then interview some 911 dispatchers. See what they think.

 

[BOESP]

How about if we just use a little bit of common sense and admit that it is quite a stretch to suggest that PR had no reason to get hysterical after discovering her daughter had been kidnapped?

You are reaching, and reaching rather clumsily, without cause for doing so.

Hysterics and hyperventilation are two different things, neither of which help and both of which hinder getting help for your "kidnapped" daughter. Like I said, interview some dispatchers.

She didn't seem too concerned about leaving her only remaining child upstairs, in the dark, in a huge house, by himself, with a kidnapper on the loose who could still be in the house. After all, within a few days she was telling all of Boulder to "hold their babies close" because a madman was running loose (or words to that effect). :seeya:

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

Hysterics and hyperventilation are two different things, neither of which help and both of which hinder getting help for your "kidnapped" daughter. Like I said, interview some dispatchers.

She didn't seem too concerned about leaving her only remaining child upstairs, in the dark, in a huge house, by himself, with a kidnapper on the loose who could still be in the house. After all, within a few days she was telling all of Boulder to "hold their babies close" because a madman was running loose (or words to that effect). :seeya:

???????????

Like you said, hysterics and hyperventilation are not much help.

 

[OpenMind4U]

http://web.archive.org/web/20000611185520/http://quietsamantha.com/

Thank you Warsaw! I haven't chance to read these documented behavior analysis before.So, thank you for giving me this apportunity! Some of them I found extrimely logical and interesting. While on the subject of if Ramsey's were involved, I highly recommend to read the following. I hate to take so much space here but I believe it's important to read.

http://web.archive.org/web/20000623095342/http://www.quietsamantha.com/entries101499.shtml

During an interview with CNN, John Ramsey was asked about his feelings after he read the ransom note. He said, "... And I told Patsy (JonBenet's mother), call the police immediately." During the same CNN interview, John Ramsey said, "...we were fortunate from almost the moment that we found the note to be surrounded by friends, our minister, our family doctor, a personal friend of mine who is also an attorney...."

Soon after the 911 call by Patsy at 5:52 a.m., the parents had called their friends and the family's minister, Reverend Rol Hoverstock, all of whom were invited and permitted to congregate at the home. There were marked police cars in front of the home.

(Subject: Male Caucasian, Age: 55, Civil Engineer, 5:45 am.)

"Thank you, sir, for coming in at this early hour."

"You're welcome, but let's get on with it."

"Very well."

(Subject is briefed on preliminaries.)

1st question to subject: "If you found that note in your home one morning, while it was still very dark, and your daughter was missing, what would you do?"

Response: "Am I allowed to be the head of a billion-dollar sales corporation?"

"Yes, and you had political collections."

"Uhmm…I'd go directly to the FBI."

"Would you think about it first with your wife?"

"Sure, we'd talk about it first, probably talk about it for quite a while. I mean, it's a big decision to get even the FBI involved. Basically, I'm betting my daughter's life on their competence."

"So, why would you even bet your daughter's life? Why not follow the instructions on the ransom note right to the letter?"

"Because she's six years old, which means she's old enough to remember details about the kidnapping, the kidnappers, and where she's being held…sounds, smells, things like that. If she's released with the ransom, the kidnappers run a serious risk that she could help the authorities find them."

"So what you're saying is there's a strong likelihood that she would be murdered even if the ransom were paid?"

"I guess…sure, that's what I'd think."

"Why the FBI and not the Boulder police?"

"Is that rhetorical, or do I have to answer that?"

"It's not rhetorical."

"Okay, based on what you told me, look, Boulder is a cute town. There's not a heck of a lot of people who've been kidnapped or murdered there, at least in this century. If you live here, you know that. It really can't be expected of the police here to know exactly how to handle a situation like this."

"Fine, so you call the FBI. What are you going to say?"

"You know something, I'd even be afraid to use my home phone, just in case it's being monitored by the kidnappers. Maybe, I'd use a cell phone. Can they monitor that?"

"If they're sophisticated enough, I suppose they could."

"Hmmm."

"Obviously, the important point here is that your paranoia is so great in the event of a kidnapping of your daughter that you'd even think twice about using a land phone. Let's move on. What would you tell the FBI?"

"I'd tell them how it is. I'd tell them to NOT approach the home under any circumstance, that the house may be watched…."

"Stop! Tell me, what makes you think these kidnappers are this organized?"

"Well, the measly quantity of their ransom would first make me think that they're dumb, but then again maybe their intentions aren't the ransom."

"What else could it be?"

"Maybe their intent is to be tested, to be pushed. Maybe they want to see me call the cops just to have a reason to hate me for one more thing that gives them the compulsion to kill my child. I don't know. But I wouldn't underestimate them - they were able to come into my home in the middle of the night, while we were all in it, and walk out with a 6-year-old girl without a trace or even a sound. That's impressive."

"Go back to the FBI."

"All right…I'd get the name and rank, or whatever, of the person I'm talking to. I'd try to get to as superior a person as possible. I wouldn't want some rookie agent to start calling the Boulder cops, for example, and Boulder PD sends out a parade of patrol cars to my home to be seen by everyone…I'd also ask whether the phone I was using was a secure communications line, but I'd also be afraid to ask that."

"Is that pretty much it?"

"Maybe, I don't know. You're asking me these questions kind of abruptly. I would have had more time to think of precautions I'd take if I were the Ramseys who could have sat down and thought about it for at least an hour. Give me an hour...if I had an hour...."

"We don't have an hour. Let's move on. Would you call your friends and neighbors over? Even your priest?"

"Come on, I think we all know the answer to that."

"Are you saying it's obvious?"

"Fine, another non-rhetorical question. Of course, I wouldn't call all my MCI friends and family to visit. The note says it: talk to even a stray dog and my daughter dies."

"What if you and your wife, just like John and Patsy, felt like you needed emotional support?"

"Emotional support! Are you f---ing kidding me? What do you think my daughter'd think if she learned that I risked her life because my wife and I needed someone to hold our hands? Who needs emotional support most? Me?! My wife?! Or my little baby, all alone, in the darkness somewhere, with some perverts hanging over her! Emotional support - give me break! That's one of the things that totally pissed me off about Patsy's excuse, or John's, for why they called every Tom, Dick, and Harry they knew over for breakfast. And…and that damn priest - why the hell's he there? She's not dead yet to need a priest."

"Here, have a glass of water, cool down."

(Subject refuses the glass.)

"What would you have done if you saw a marked patrol car pull up in front of your house and a uniformed officer come to your door after everything you said to the FBI?"

(Laughter. Subject shakes lowered head for twenty-two seconds, a smile on his lips, then looks up.) "I would have shot him. Because that cop just killed my daughter."

"Thank you for your time."

"Yeah, whatever."

(Subject departs.)

Of the 19 persons so far similarly tested, clearly this one has demonstrated the strongest reactions to our line of questioning. The anger in this subject is far more pronounced than we've experienced before. We're not certain of the root of that anger, but it is noteworthy that this individual happens to have a 7-year-old daughter from a current second marriage. He has an adult daughter from a first marriage, but for the last several years this young lady has lived in Greece and was recently engaged to marry a Greek politician. Subject regrets the distance that separates him from his first daughter, and in some ways feels like he lost her during his divorce from her mother. (He didn't volunteer any additional details, and we didn't press him for them - he was obviously hurt from the experience).

 

[midwest mama]

The most glaring evidence that points to PR's involvement, IMO, is the ransom note. On the other hand, the main thing that points away from PR's involvement, at least to me, is the 911. She was very convincing. But I just thought of something and made a little connection. Remember the interview where PR's lip was quivering and she said someone was out there? Well, I couldn't quite put my finger on why, but this interview made me very uncomfortable, and I didn't buy her anguish.This is what I think made the difference. In the interview, we heard her voice and saw her facial expressions, while on the 911, we only heard her voice. Thinking about this made me wonder what her face was doing during the 911. IMO, if we had seen her facials, her performance wouldn't have been anymore believable than the interview. I found a little clip of the interview on youtube, and listened without watching, and I have to say, IMO, her voice was more believable without the facial contortions.

Patsy was most likely under the influence of sedatives at the time, which Dr. Beuf stated he prescribed for her. But at no time did Mr. calm, cool and collected ever display very much emotion which indicated his pain of loss. Not that day, not any interview, ever. Not the ice man.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Patsy was most likely under the influence of sedatives at the time, which Dr. Beuf stated he prescribed for her. But at no time did Mr. calm, cool and collected ever display very much emotion which indicated his pain of loss. Not that day, not any interview, ever. Not the ice man.

I always believed that behavior evidences as much important as the forensic evidences. And I always believed in profiling as the 'starting' point. And by adding the behavior 'ingredients' into it, I'm watching what falls on the bottom or raised on the top, so to speak. Therefore, I did appreciate Mr. Kolar's book: through behavior evidences, he really exposed John Ramsey very-very well.

But what is it mean? Does John Ramsey is perpetrator OR participator of the crime?...Or maybe we should replace 'OR' with 'AND'?...and if so then who's Patsy because I have no doubts that (at the minimum!) she's participator!!!???

Lately, I've been deeply looking into every available theory (thanks to MM who used old JDI theory and recently presented from the behavior-driven point of view). JDI, PDI, BDI...and as these theories vary, IMO, both of them has one and only one denominator = JPP (John Patsy Participation).

John and Patsy Ramsey have stick to each other to the very end (Patsy's death), they support each other's 'innocence' in every apportunity they have...but if you wouldn't know this case and watch these people first time together on TV, you wouldn't feel any closeness and effection in their 'body language' toward each other. LE officers have noticed these 'unusual' behaviors on December 26...and the same behavior remained 'status quo' in their every 'promotional' appearance since...In addition to all THEIR lies on the record as the evidence, we were absorving another lies but now in their behavior: their body language screaming 'distancing', their words proclaiming 'together'!

Today, only half of JPP is still alife. And if God willing to help in getting this case to court then IMO it should be presented as the whole JPP 'conspiracy' crime. Regardless, who did what and at which extend. And as the proof, GJ saw this as well by indicting both, John and Patsy!!!!!!

jmo

 

[SunnieRN]

Hysterics and hyperventilation are two different things, neither of which help and both of which hinder getting help for your "kidnapped" daughter. Like I said, interview some dispatchers.

She didn't seem too concerned about leaving her only remaining child upstairs, in the dark, in a huge house, by himself, with a kidnapper on the loose who could still be in the house. After all, within a few days she was telling all of Boulder to "hold their babies close" because a madman was running loose (or words to that effect). :seeya:

We have discussed the Ramey actions that morning before. If you read the note, as JR supposedly had, you read the portion that states, "talk to a stray dog and your daughter dies".

So what does this tell us about the R's behavior?

Their actions were not centered upon a safe return of their daughter.

They had no safety concerns about their son.

They had no personal safety concern, considering PR asked the first officer that arrived, to remove his gun and uniform shirt, after leaving his squad car in front of the house.

This leads me to believe that they know JonBenet was dead, or they wanted her killed. I believe the first scenario.

The next thing that makes me question their actions, is JR's behaviors after JonBenet was 'found' dead in his own home. When Beth died in a tragic accident, he mourned VERY hard. It is said he 'wanted to die'. After JonBenets death, his statements seemed more like an angry person, who made unusual statements. "She was a spitfire, she was a pint sized Lolita, she kept the family going'. That, along with PR's 'that child' comment made me really think hard about the situation.

 

[OpenMind4U]

We have discussed the Ramey actions that morning before. If you read the note, as JR supposedly had, you read the portion that states, "talk to a stray dog and your daughter dies".

So what does this tell us about the R's behavior?

Their actions were not centered upon a safe return of their daughter.

They had no safety concerns about their son.

They had no personal safety concern, considering PR asked the first officer that arrived, to remove his gun and uniform shirt, after leaving his squad car in front of the house.

This leads me to believe that they know JonBenet was dead, or they wanted her killed. I believe the first scenario.

The next thing that makes me question their actions, is JR's behaviors after JonBenet was 'found' dead in his own home. When Beth died in a tragic accident, he mourned VERY hard. It is said he 'wanted to die'. After JonBenets death, his statements seemed more like an angry person, who made unusual statements. "She was a spitfire, she was a pint sized Lolita, she kept the family going'. That, along with PR's 'that child' comment made me really think hard about the situation.

SunnieRN, I never heared about John's reference to JB as the pint sized Lolita. Can you please point me to where, when, during which and with whom conversation this statement was made??? IMO, it's pretty dirty comment coming from any father's mouth!

 

[Edmond.DantesIII]

We have discussed the Ramey actions that morning before. If you read the note, as JR supposedly had, you read the portion that states, "talk to a stray dog and your daughter dies".

So what does this tell us about the R's behavior?

Their actions were not centered upon a safe return of their daughter.

I wonder if you would be saying the same thing if they never called police, which, by the way, would not be the reflex reaction for any intelligent person, scared to death upon discovering a ransom note and their child missing from her bed. The normal reaction would be to call the police immediately, despite what you may have been lead to believe by so many T.V. shows.

Thus, is it not the case that it would have been considerably more suspicious if the Ramseys did not immediately call the police, but instead waited several days before doing so?

Is it not the case that, had they been trying to orchestrate a bogus kidnapping that they would have waited until after they disposed of the body before calling the police? After all, the ransom note gives them that latitude with the threat "talk to a stray dog and your daughter dies"?

Are you absolutely certain that you have thoroughly considered the logical dynamics of the indictment which you are presently allaying against the Ramseys, or has your capacity for reasoned analysis become distorted by some irrational predetermination regarding the matter at hand?

 

[midwest mama]

SunnieRN, I never heared about John's reference to JB as the pint sized Lolita. Can you please point me to where, when, during which and with whom conversation this statement was made??? IMO, it's pretty dirty comment coming from any father's mouth!

A quick Google of this turned up info that tabloids had made this comment, and it was mentioned by Barbara Walters during an interview with the Ramseys. As far as I can tell, it is not a statement made by JR. Unless Sunnie does have a specific reference. In all fairness, we must try to keep the rumors separated from the facts, right OM?