Armchair Psych Profile and Treatment

For what? Not being able to tell the future? Not continuing to treat an adult student who voluntarily left the program and didn't seek further treatment? If the psychiatrist would have called the police (or whatever it is you expect them to have done), nothing would have happened. Nobody saw this coming.
Oh, in my heart , I totally beleive, and have all alongg believe that if she intervened she would have thrown his timetable off -- sneak preview of the motion picture ... I think , the time frames for the Joker were serious for him.............
 
Sure she did she verbilized her concerns to colleagues for weeks .............
 
I'm impressed with her. It looks like there was no threat that would enable her to call the police, yet she had the foresight and professionalism to realize that even in the absence of such threats, something may be seriously wrong. She then took measures to try to assess the shooter for threat, and began assembling the BETA team to do so. He quit the school at the same time and obviously, quit any treatment at that time as well. The BETA team and the school and the pscyh had no power once he took those measures. In the absence of a direct threat:

They could not call the police.
They could not force treatment.
They could not force an assessment.
They could not call his parents, or friends or landlord and describe his behavior.

What they could do is send him letters or leave messages urging he submit to assessment or treatment and offering help with finding new treatment providers. They could express their concern to him. That's it. And we have nothing to suggest they didn't do just that.

I read comments at the ends of articles about this case. There are tons of people shrieking that the school or Fenton are 100% responsible. That sentiment is often followed by, "someone has to be liable for such a tragedy! Fifty eight people were wounded and 12 died! Someone has to pay for that!"

I really think that is the main reason most are calling for blood in the absence of any info indicating that the school or Fenton failed to do all they could based on what they observed.
BETA team and the school and the pscyh had no power


its not about power - its about your ethical obligations and being a caring person...........
 
Passing the buck!
From an earlier news report-
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31324092/detail.html

ABC News learned Fenton was a key member in setting up BETA in 2010, and she is currently one of the contacts for anyone who has concerns about an on-campus threat. A University of Colorado spokeswoman acknowledged that Fenton is one of several trained CU contacts who can convene the team in consultation with the chairman.

“Fenton made initial phone calls about engaging the BETA team” in “the first 10 days” of June but it “never came together” because in the period Fenton was having conversations with team members, James Holmes began the process of dropping out of school, a source said.

In a news conference last week, CU Anschutz Medical Campus Graduate School Dean Barry Shur said Holmes dropped out of the CU Ph.D Neuroscience program on June 10.

"My understanding, he has not been back on campus where the program is since that time," he said last week.

Holmes lost his access to secure areas of the school June 12, according to the CU spokeswoman.

Sources said when Holmes withdrew, the BETA team “had no control over him."

Since then the university has gone into damage control almost as if they had initially dropped the ball deliberately and were happy to just let the danger move on elsewhere. They had options imo.

Given past school shootings, triggering and directing unstable student animosity back onto ones self may not be a good thing to do. Did that play a role in the decision to contain information, handle it internally, and keep silent the danger?
 
Yes yes I am being sarcastic -- oh, she was writing RX's for herself, family and friends for benzos narcotics,

, pls talk about some ethical problems...............ugh

She wrote a script for hay fever meds for her husband

Took 4 xanax when her mother was dying from the sample cabinet

Scripted her employee 4 xanax when she needed it for a flight

Nothing really super major there. The only problem was that she didn't keep medical records indicating the scripts were written. When I worked for a doctor, he'd give us antibiotics and cough medicine from the sample cabinet all the time.
 
They could not force treatment.
At this level of acuity it is not about treatment, it is about safety..................
 
Passing the buck!
From an earlier news report-
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/31324092/detail.html

Since then the university has gone into damage control almost as if they had initially dropped the ball deliberately and were happy to just let the danger move on elsewhere. They had options imo.

Given past school shootings, triggering and directing unstable student animosity back onto ones self may not be a good thing to do. Did that play a role in the decision to contain information, handle it internally, and keep silent the danger?

This will 100% depend on why she thought he was a threat. I wonder if it will ever come out.
 
They could not force treatment.
At this level of acuity it is not about treatment, it is about safety..................

Unless James Holmes told her specifically "I am going to kill people" or "I am going to kill myself", there is nothing that could have been done

Now, if he said either of those things, they'll have some major explaining to do about not altering the police.
 
I'm talking about the way she supposedly handed out drugs to employees, her spouse etc and didn't keep records. That just doesn't impress me. Again, IF it's true
Its true her board sanctioned her evidently...............
 
Damage control, forbidding faculty to speak on the subject, gag orders etc.. May not come out easily but we have to believe the truth with eventually come out. Look the damage..
 
I don't know how it varies State by State, but my teenaged brother simply told a friend "sometimes I feel so desperate that I want to end it", not even meaning it, and the following transpired:

Friend called police
Police showed up and took away my brother
Brother was admitted to ER
Brother had to wait for 6 hours to see a doctor and be evaluated
2 hour eval by Dr, then was released.

So both the police and the hospital were involved, and he wasn't even in treatment. So, he wasn't placed on a 72 hour hold or anything, but he was immediately assessed.

That's what I find kind of strange, she notified the internal team at the school that she was concerned, but nothing happened. But also, we don't have all the info yet, so this is total speculation.
but was your family memeber high functioning wherein he could say he was only talking, wherein , IMO, holmes overt behaviors would have made his verbal utterances meaningless - his behaviors were IMO, psycotic or delsusionial
 
but was your family memeber high functioning wherein he could say he was only talking, wherein , IMO, holmes overt behaviors would have made his verbal utterances meaningless - his behaviors were IMO, psycotic or delsusionial

He was very shy and non verbal and always has been.

We have no idea if he was acting that way prior, and even if he was, if he was not a threat to himself or others, they would immediately release him.

Being crazy isn't a crime.
 
Nothing they can do if you are acting normally, can function, can answer normally.
__________________
I just do not think he was
acting normally, (buying 6000 rounds) can function,(failing orals / can answer normally.(telling LE upon their arrival he is joker)
__________________
 
Can she still break doctor patient confidentiality and call police

not only can she, it is her ethical obligation to do so.................
 
but was your family memeber high functioning wherein he could say he was only talking, wherein , IMO, holmes overt behaviors would have made his verbal utterances meaningless - his behaviors were IMO, psycotic or delsusionial

his behavior behind closed doors (his apartment & his mind)
were delusional & psychotic.
IMO he is intelligent enough to realize that others would
not appreciate his ideas & that they could get him in trouble
before he had the opportunity to PROVE his delusional point,
which is what he accomplished in theater 9.
(in his delusional mind)
 
but was your family memeber high functioning wherein he could say he was only talking, wherein , IMO, holmes overt behaviors would have made his verbal utterances meaningless - his behaviors were IMO, psycotic or delsusionial
Can you cite specifically which behaviors of his, prior to his dropping out of the program, we're psychotic or delusional, in your opinion?
 
Nothing they can do if you are acting normally, can function, can answer normally.
__________________
I just do not think he was
acting normally, (buying 6000 rounds) can function,(failing orals / can answer normally.(telling LE upon their arrival he is joker)
__________________

No one knew that ahead of time, can't green warrant on something you don't know. Even if they did, it is not illegal, so there would be no search warrant granted to find out. You own as much of that stuff as you want, fail your tests, and still it is not illegal.
 
Nothing they can do if you are acting normally, can function, can answer normally.
__________________
I just do not think he was
acting normally, (buying 6000 rounds) can function,(failing orals / can answer normally.(telling LE upon their arrival he is joker)
__________________

But it's not illegal to do any of that at all.

You can even be acting crazy, they can't lock you up for that.
 
Sources did not know what Holmes told Fenton that sparked her concern.

“It takes more than just statements,” said one source, explaining that Holmes would have had to tell Fenton “something specific" before she would have to report it to law enforcement.

“He would have to tell her he had taken steps to make it happen,” said another source.

Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...eat-team-before-aurora-shooting#ixzz22QTFsQbl

Another quote from another source, Dr. Keith Ablow:
However, First noted that it can sometimes be difficult to determine whether or not something a patient says in confidence is a significant danger or if it’s just expressing thoughts that they can’t say to anyone else.

“If a patient has a fantasy, then you want to encourage people to tell you your inner most thoughts,” First said. “It’s important to allow that for the therapeutic relationship to function…. If someone tells you something specific, there’s more than obligation to tell someone. But people say crazy things all the time. There’s a judgment call on the psychiatrist’s part – is this something that should be taken seriously?”

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/...eceiving-threats-from-patients/#ixzz22QWtfsQa


It would greatly help us here if we were able to find out just what JH told the doctor. Unfortunately, that won't be happening for quite some time.
 

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