ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nancy Grace has said that she is a scuba diver and has gone diving numerous times. I want to know more detail about what she thinks regarding the lack of evidence at that snorkeling site.
 
If RG had brand new expensive extensions, which has been reported by her friends, then she was NOT going to go snorkeling, imo.
 
I don;t know if anyone has seen this...

http://bentpage.wordpress.com/tag/rum-reef/
-----------

There is no reason to go snorkeling at that place, not because it's particularly dangerous, but because there's hardly anything to look at either above or below the water. Also, RG would never have walked in her wedgies over sharp outcroppings of rocks to get to the waterline in order to put flippers on. And, I don't think she liked flippers, masks or anything to go with snorkeling anyway. I doubt that he could have talked her into donning snorkeling gear, especially to go there.

GVG probably knew that someone went missing there, so he chose it as his alibi.
 
-----------

There is no reason to go snorkeling at that place, not because it's particularly dangerous, but because there's hardly anything to look at either above or below the water. Also, RG would never have walked in her wedgies over sharp outcroppings of rocks to get to the waterline in order to put flippers on. And, I don't think she liked flippers, masks or anything to go with snorkeling anyway. I doubt that he could have talked her into donning snorkeling gear, especially to go there.

GVG probably knew that someone went missing there, so he chose it as his alibi.

The pictures show Baby Beach where you can swim...very shallow and there are little fish there for the children to look at as you get close to the breakers. In the second photo who can see the breakers in the distance and that is where they were. Not a place you want to go unless you are a strong swimmer and the underwater currents are strong there. There is a gap in one of the breakers and you can feel the surge as you get close to it so on the other side the current has to be strong and this location is at the tip of the island. The cove part is a great place to enjoy the water, really to shallow to swim but great for the kids.

Near the Marriett there are rocky areas but they are flat and there are plenty of fish to be seen. Some of the tour boats will anchor off the shore and let their passengers snorkel. If they asked at the Marriett where is a good place to see fish they would have been directed there. I was there, myself, this June and while I did not see many fish my friend was able to see many, turtles, etc. by swimming about 20 - 30 foot from shore. Very safe and a lot of people around if there was a problem...plus homes right there.

Another thing that puts up a red flag is the time of day. Aruba sits East of the eastern coast of the US. It is further east than the NE coastline. They are in a different timezone but do not use DST. So in the summer they have the same time as DST. Regardless it gets darker faster there earlier than say Connecticut. At 5 pm the sun is already low in the sky and way too low to see what is in the water clearly. The sun set at 7:06pm on August 2nd and that means it was down below the horizon.

Too hinky to be an accident. jmo
 
Aruba police to re-enact drowning of US tourist

Associated Press






The Aruban prosecutor's office says it will re-enact the alleged drowning of a U.S. woman to test her companion's account of the incident.
Solicitor General Taco Stein tells The Associated Press the re-enactment will take place soon but he won't say when. Police will play the roles of Maryland businessman Gary Giordano and alleged drowning victim Robyn Gardner. Investigators want to know if it's possible for Gardner to have drowned while snorkeling as Giordano described


http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1708241
 
Thanks. Your info about the currents and the dangers of that place he was at is also what the fisherman Sergio Silva said in his interview. It appears this is local common knowledge, perhaps something GG could have come to understand by having a couple of conversations on the island, or even before arriving. Per an earlier unconfirmed report, this is his first trip to Aruba. If GG was plotting the "accidental death" he chose a spot which he thought would fit the story, and visited it the day before to confirm how he could portray events. With your additional info about the relative ease one could throw a body off a cliff in some areas without being seen, it certainly is possible he had that knowledge as well and disposed of the body that way. Then there is the fact no body has washed up, and per you and others they usually do.

Perhaps, if ABC's source is correct (a big if), we will get to know a lot of info about this case when the Federal Grand Jury is held in a couple of weeks. I am curious if he can be indicted on a 1st Degree Murder charge, if the premeditation occurred in Maryland and was then sent to AMEX in another state, then the death occurring in Aruba. I am also wondering how it ties in with the Aruba proceedings, and what sequence events would occur in, etc.

It was said in the beginning of this 'case' that he was very interested in the Natalee Holloway story - so maybe he read about the cliffs where the sharks are from there; maybe RG & GG were out there earlier on Monday - excuse - scouting photo shots... just a thought! :fence:
 
Aruba police to re-enact drowning of US tourist

Associated Press






The Aruban prosecutor's office says it will re-enact the alleged drowning of a U.S. woman to test her companion's account of the incident.
Solicitor General Taco Stein tells The Associated Press the re-enactment will take place soon but he won't say when. Police will play the roles of Maryland businessman Gary Giordano and alleged drowning victim Robyn Gardner. Investigators want to know if it's possible for Gardner to have drowned while snorkeling as Giordano described


http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1708241


From the article:

Police will play the roles of Maryland businessman Gary Giordano and alleged drowning victim Robyn Gardner. Investigators want to know if it's possible for Gardner to have drowned while snorkeling as Giordano described.

When I heard about the planned reenactment I was hoping they would be doing what I have been thinking I would do if I was them, which is try to simulate a dead body the weight of RG, let it drift out there and see where it goes. It seems like that could be used as evidence by the prosecution if it floated back to shore, as well as possibly point the way to the actual body of RG if indeed she did float out to sea there.
 
It was said in the beginning of this 'case' that he was very interested in the Natalee Holloway story - so maybe he read about the cliffs where the sharks are from there; maybe RG & GG were out there earlier on Monday - excuse - scouting photo shots... just a thought! :fence:

Yes I agree in fact I was able to learn of those cliffs myself from googling the subject a few weeks ago, and the NH case was where it showed up (in message threads just like this one.) I think the FBI got a treasure trove of evidence of premeditation from his computer. MOO.
 
I'm going to re-post the approx. TimeLine, as it's way back on page 1 and I made a couple of changes; if anyone 'sees' anything else new in the news about times - please post and I'll update this as necessary! TIA! :seeya:

TimeLine (approx)
July 2011
- Robyn sends GG a text "Get me out of here." Per a report. there is a fight just prior to leaving for Aruba between GG and RF.

Sunday, July 31st - Flight time from Maryland to Orlando is about 1 1/2 hours. Given the time they would have needed to be at the airport for security, my guess-timate is that they were at the airport no later than 6am.

9am – Orlando Airport: ABC News has seen receipts that revealed that the couple ordered four Bloody Marys at 9 a.m. at the Orlando Airport on their way to the island,

?? Arrive at hotel - and that the two bought a liter of Ciroq vodka after they checked into their room at the Marriott Hotel in Aruba.

Sunday, July 31, late afternoon - I met Robyn and Gary on the beach in front of the Marriott Stellaris Hotel. They had arrived on that day. My husband and I sat and spoke with them for awhile. They asked my husband and I about activities on the island.... Was shocked to see that this had happened, since we just spoke with them last Sunday, late afternoon. I am sure it was Robyn because I commented on her tattoo, indicating that I liked it. Didn't think they went together as a couple, as he was much older. She was also sitting kind of far away from him on the beach chair. She was nice. We were actually discussing the Natalee Holloway case. I will pray for her return.

Monday, August 1st - GG and RG bought bottle of vodka this day, per reports.

3:09pm – Toyota RAV-4 drives by The Rum Reef Bar & Grill – seen on video.

3:41pm – GG & RG seen walking by the ‘closed’ restaurant gates –“ walking on beach” seen on video.

5:02pm – Facebook comment: “the 16. I can communicate here.”

Tuesday. August 2nd – 2:05am - Facebook comment left on RF's wall by Robyn: "This sucks."

Tuesday, August 2nd – 6:51am - Prime murder suspect Gary Giordano, who friends said she met on a swingers sex site, is thought to have threatened to kill her while grabbing her by the neck and shoving her into an elevator on August 2 - the last day Miss Gardner, 35, was seen alive. The videotape from the Marriott Resort in Aruba allegedly shows the two having a furious and violent fight on the day she went missing. A source close to the investigation told the National Enquirer: 'They were having a major fight.
Robyn was waving her arms and shouting at Giordano. He was grabbing her arms and jerking her around and shouting back at her. 'Then Giordano apparently realized their argument was heating up in public where someone might overhear them. He violently grabbed the back of Robyn's neck with one hand and shoved her back into the elevator with the other hand.' After reviewing the video multiple times, experts believe Robyn shouted: 'I'm out of here. I'm leaving ****** you!. I'm not spending another minute with you!' while he shouted back: 'Get back here! I'll kill you, b*****!'

Tuesday, August 2nd – 7:57am - Facebook: RF to Robyn: “?? InBox me”

3:07pm - Arrived at restaurant – Seen on camera entering restaurant.

3:10pm - Robyn sends RF a Facebook message 'Don't worry. I care about you I love you we'll talk and sort things out when I got back,' Reportedly went to bathroom after entering restaurant.

At 3:57pm, Giordano returns to their rental car outside and refills his blue cup, going back inside at 4pm Seven minutes later, Gardner heads to the bathroom again. One witness has said that at this point she seems sober but groggy.

4:13pm - Robyn is last seen (leaving restaurant). A man who works near Baby Beach reported seeing their vehicle park up by the rocks close to the water, wondered why they chose there to go snorkeling. A fisherman comes forward and says that GG and RG never went into the water. Gardner was last seen alive Aug. 2 at the Rum Reef Bar & Grill in the Baby Beach area of Aruba with Gary Giordano - approximately 4pm. Giordano, 50, and Gardner, 35, had traveled to Aruba together. He is being held in an Arubian jail but could be released today. Giordano claims that Gardner got swept out to sea when the two went snorkeling

approx. 4:22pm - Approximately 10 minutes after leaving restaurant a fisherman reportedly saw Giordano and Gardner leaving a beach together, and said they did not get into the water.

6:15pm (time seen on video) - GG knocking on several back doors.

6:16pm – (video) GG walking up the stairs.

6:16pm – (video) GG walking along the bar.

6:17pm - (video) GG walking the bar area; then walking around to the back (no footage).

6:20pm - GG reportedly headed to the back kitchen of the bar and told someone to call police. Three witnesses, two women and a man, told police that Giordano approached them on Aug. 2, saying, "Can you help me? We were snorkeling and my girlfriend is missing," she told police. One woman told police that while Giordano's sneakers were wet, his shorts were not. When Giordano reported Gardner missing, he seemed extremely drunk, a local fisherman, Sergio Silva, told ABC News, although Giordano told police that the two never purchased alcohol at the restaurant.

6.23pm - 911 received notification of a possible drowning of a woman. The traveling companion of this woman, a man G.V.G. stated that they were going snorkeling behind Nanki Country Club. At 6:23 p.m. on the day of her disappearance, police were called, and 20 minutes later began to search the area. Then, Giordano left the search to return to his hotel and take a nap, according to police. Disclaimer: This claim, at 6.40 GG went for a nap, not true, there are various pics of GG helping the police in the dark, pics where it is completely dark, it takes till 7:30 for it to get dark, so GG was not taking a nap at 6:40, he still was working with the police at least at 7:30.

Wednesday, August 4th - Robin’s mother arrives.

Wednesday, August 4th – original date to fly back

Friday, August 5th - Three days after the search for Gardner began, Giordano got within feet of leaving the country before he was stopped at Aruba's airport where he told U.S. Customs he had to change flights because of weather, and told officials that his travel companion was "taking another flight." He was trying to board a flight one hour earlier than his scheduled departure. When arrested, authorities say Giordano was drenched in sweat. Mug shot after being arrested trying to get on a plane off the island.

Wednesday, August 31st – GG detained in jail for another 60 days (til Oct. 30th).
 
It's been six weeks, no trace. Still think possibility GG sold her must be considered, MOO.
 
So people observed that GG's trunks were not wet but his shoes were. And he tells RG's mother he got is sneakers and socks wet looking for her daughter. Does not sound as if he went into the water to me other than to get his sneakers wet to make it appear he was in the water. Some of the rocks are very sharp there so getting into the water is difficult when there are rocks around. In the water they are slippery.

Two hours 4:22 to 6:15 is plenty of time to drive up to the cliffs. If she were told he was going to take some pictures I could see them going there as the sea spray coming over the rocks is beautiful. Some cliff areas are a long drop to the ocean and one slip you could be in big trouble. His excuse should have been they went to take pictures and she slipped and fell. The authorities may have given him a pass.

I've been told that people do drown in Aruba but I'm not sure if their bodies wash up. Currents are pretty strong and could carry a body out to sea. jmo
 
It's been six weeks, no trace. Still think possibility GG sold her must be considered, MOO.

Let me tell you Aruba is so tight nothing gets in or out without them knowing it. They know every ship, every boat. Before Natalie disappeared you could go right down to where the fishman brought in their catch near the airport and buy it fresh. Not anymore. They have left no open doors and don't want that type of problems in their country. Very bad for their business in the tourist industry if that were to happen. Aruba depends on tourism. RG was not sold.

If he had a policy on her he was hoping by now her body would have washed up somewhere. I think he knocked her out enough so she never knew what hit her. He was reported as appearing drunk and she was drinking, too. Easy to slip something into her drink. You don't drink that much, wait until just before sunset, go to a secluded beach and go snorkeling for two hours without anyone seeing you and without getting your suit wet. As JB would say...."Fairyland". jmo
 
Let me tell you Aruba is so tight nothing gets in or out without them knowing it. They know every ship, every boat. Before Natalie disappeared you could go right down to where the fishman brought in their catch near the airport and buy it fresh. Not anymore. They have left no open doors and don't want that type of problems in their country. Very bad for their business in the tourist industry if that were to happen. Aruba depends on tourism. RG was not sold.

If he had a policy on her he was hoping by now her body would have washed up somewhere. I think he knocked her out enough so she never knew what hit her. He was reported as appearing drunk and she was drinking, too. Easy to slip something into her drink. You don't drink that much, wait until just before sunset, go to a secluded beach and go snorkeling for two hours without anyone seeing you and without getting your suit wet. As JB would say...."Fairyland". jmo

Thank you for enlightening me, I had not heard this before. If that's the case, then I can believe the chances of her being sold are slim to none and maybe I can get past that as a possibility. Was it Natalie's disappearance specifically that led to this tightened security, and though I have heard reports that many believe she was sold, do you know if authorities believed she may have been as well?

So if he wanted her to wash up somewhere he wouldn't have weighted her, or bagged or tied her w/ anything as that would be evidence he killed her and wouldn't tie in w/ his "accidental drowning". It's known that she was drinking heavily and most of us probably agree that she was most likely drugged. She may have passed out in the car and all he had to do was carry her to the sea. I agree that them going snorkeling at that hour especially after heavy drinking is totally too far fetched. There's just no way I believe that's what they did.
 
It's been six weeks, no trace. Still think possibility GG sold her must be considered, MOO.

How much is she worth at 35? (Serious question if anybody knows.) How does it compare to 1.5 million? Is it worth the risk of being sent to prison for about 5 years for insurance fraud if she was discovered (she does have those tattoos and all)?

He sold her and his soul for 1.5 million on that insurance policy. She is dead.

MOO.
 
Thank you for enlightening me, I had not heard this before. If that's the case, then I can believe the chances of her being sold are slim to none and maybe I can get past that as a possibility. Was it Natalie's disappearance specifically that led to this tightened security, and though I have heard reports that many believe she was sold, do you know if authorities believed she may have been as well?

So if he wanted her to wash up somewhere he wouldn't have weighted her, or bagged or tied her w/ anything as that would be evidence he killed her and wouldn't tie in w/ his "accidental drowning". It's known that she was drinking heavily and most of us probably agree that she was most likely drugged. She may have passed out in the car and all he had to do was carry her to the sea. I agree that them going snorkeling at that hour especially after heavy drinking is totally too far fetched. There's just no way I believe that's what they did.

BBM. Good point. Also, forensics would be able to detect if she had been strangled, bludgeoned, stabbed, drugged, etc. so it possibly would have been of value to him to NOT have the body wash ashore if he disposed of her in the water. So the possibility he weighted her down can't be ruled out. It would rank senior in his mind as more important to hide the body, even with weights, than to risk the body being found with them and reveal the true cause of death. MOO.
 
This is the last I'll comment on this, cause I'm sure we could go round and round and never agree...

Please, please, please, provide all of us a link that shows that GG's statement to police says they were fighting a riptide and fighting their individual ways to shore. A police statement that he 'swam for his life'. I can't find a single one.

It's not a police statement, but the suggestion IS in a MSM piece. And ironically, it's from one of your own posts:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MD ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 August 2011 - #5



MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, but one of the things Marty has been reporting, when the daylight was out, that just over his shoulder and around the corner, when you get past the breakers, it does look rough. You could see it.

You know, is there a possibility she could have gotten caught in some kind of rip current and that kind of thing carried her out? Yes. But if you`re swimming with somebody, if I was swimming with somebody, I`d want to know -- I would have them right with me. I wouldn`t leave them in the water.

But I respectfully (as a life-long surfer and swimmer) disagree with Mr. Brooks. Unless one is trained in lifeguarding and water rescue, the best course of action is to swim to shore and call for help. Otherwise SAR often ends up with two victims instead of one.
 
How much is she worth at 35? (Serious question if anybody knows.) How does it compare to 1.5 million? Is it worth the risk of being sent to prison for about 5 years for insurance fraud if she was discovered (she does have those tattoos and all)?

He sold her and his soul for 1.5 million on that insurance policy. She is dead.

MOO.

I really wanted her to be alive and found. This is so sad
 
BBM. Good point. Also, forensics would be able to detect if she had been strangled, bludgeoned, stabbed, drugged, etc. so it possibly would have been of value to him to NOT have the body wash ashore if he disposed of her in the water. So the possibility he weighted her down can't be ruled out. It would rank senior in his mind as more important to hide the body, even with weights, than to risk the body being found with them and reveal the true cause of death. MOO.

There are lots of crabs in those waters. If she were to wash up she would have by now. This spring a skull washed up near the Mariott but it was not Natalie's. jmo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
129
Guests online
3,684
Total visitors
3,813

Forum statistics

Threads
594,131
Messages
17,999,470
Members
229,315
Latest member
Cheyenne1060
Back
Top