Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 #3

[jjenny]

There has been no confirmation whatsoever at this stage, that the mushrooms (or anything else) ingested at lunch meal caused the deaths.

Accordingly, it's useful to maintain an open mind, and not jump to conclusions IMO.

No conformation but certainly a lot of suspicion that death cap mushrooms were the culprit.

 

[nightrider17]

I think there is a pattern which cannot be dismissed.

SP was hospitalised for ingesting something which nearly caused his death only merely a year ago.

Suspiciously he's her ex and related to these latest people who have died under similar methods.

If SP was in hospital due to a shark attack or a motorbike accident then the relevancy to these latest deaths would not have any connection.

But the fact he suffered a poisoning is what really keeps us centred on EP.

This person EP has incredible unluckiness to be related to all the people that have been ill and died and interesting her ex who was very ill.

I guess it could be coincidence?? it could be a misdirection and be SP all along setting EP up for the fall I guess.

But wouldn't it have been better for SP that EP died ??- that would have been a better financial outcome for him. MOO

 

[kiwilaura]

There has been no confirmation whatsoever at this stage, that the mushrooms (or anything else) ingested at lunch meal caused the deaths.

Accordingly, it's useful to maintain an open mind, and not jump to conclusions IMO.

Except death by DC mushroom is extremely specific and I don’t think that would even be the theory if it were not clear as mud from the presentation of the patients and their subsequent rapid death. To be suggesting it’s some other form of food poisoning seems naive IMO. Surely if it wasn’t there would be some suggestion that it might not be DC poisoning? I’ve not seen any comment from police or hospital suggesting the cause is not alarmingly clear.

IMO that they died from DC poisoning seems the single safe conclusion to jump to. Trying to theorise otherwise seems to just be derailing the conversation.

MOO

 

[jjleroche]

No conformation but certainly a lot of suspicion that death cap mushrooms were the culprit.

Until there is definite confirmation of COD, there will be speculation about other possibilities IMO

 

[bearbear]

Possibly. But wouldn’t be a criminal act.

no, but she may have acted impulsively in protection mode without thinking it through?

 

[kiwilaura]

Someone asked the question why EP would think she would get away with it…. In my opinion, she will get away with it. An intentional act will be very hard to prove I believe and there will be enough reasonable doubt. Any evidence will be circumstantial.

Accident or not, I personally don’t think anyone will be held accountable. If EP has any awareness of the law, she would probably feel reasonably confident. If she did it on purpose.

 

[bearbear]

Someone asked the question why EP would think she would get away with it…. In my opinion, she will get away with it. An intentional act will be very hard to prove I believe and there will be enough reasonable doubt. Any evidence will be circumstantial.

Accident or not, I personally don’t think anyone will be held accountable. If EP has any awareness of the law, she would probably feel reasonably confident. If she did it on purpose.

i agree, very hard to prove intentional, although she may be charged with manslaughter?

 

[Charlot123]

Right. Far more logical that EP is the culprit, rather that jumping through the hoops necessary to conjecture she was framed.

I wonder if it is "a picture in a picture". POI wants us to think it was beef Wellington. But what if nothing is in the beef, and in the dehydrator? They were framed, then? Or not? It still doesn't mean that no poison was used. Maybe a very different poison. And if she ran to get rid of the dehydrator, how easy is it to throw out a tiny package with other poison on the way? A dehydrator is large and attracts attention. And while they are testing beef for poison, what about the other food? I do hope they got all tissues, hair, too, and so wish that Ian survives.

 

[JLZ]

I think there is a pattern which cannot be dismissed.

SP was hospitalised for ingesting something which nearly caused his death only merely a year ago.

Suspiciously he's her ex and related to these latest people who have died under similar methods.

If SP was in hospital due to a shark attack or a motorbike accident then the relevancy to these latest deaths would not have any connection.

But the fact he suffered a poisoning is what really keeps us centred on EP.

This person EP has incredible unluckiness to be related to all the people that have been ill and died and interesting her ex who was very ill.

I guess it could be coincidence?? it could be a misdirection and be SP all along setting EP up for the fall I guess.

But wouldn't it have been better for SP that EP died ??- that would have been a better financial outcome for him. MOO

I don't agree that it's a fact that SP suffered a poisoning. His illness has not been explained.

 

[SMK777]

Did one of the guests make a pavlova and bring it to the gathering for dessert and the cream was off, it all got eaten and the children never had any.

Does the cream being off cause organs to shut down and leave 3 dead and one in need of a liver transplant?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Has it been confirned that Simon was poisoned ?

Or is it still just speculation that's been raised since the recent events.

 

[sceawian]

I wonder if it is "a picture in a picture". POI wants us to think it was beef Wellington. But what if nothing is in the beef, and in the dehydrator? They were framed, then? Or not? It still doesn't mean that no poison was used. Maybe a very different poison. And if she ran to get rid of the dehydrator, how easy is it to throw out a tiny package with other poison on the way? A dehydrator is large and attracts attention. And while they are testing beef for poison, what about the other food? I do hope they got all tissues, hair, too, and so wish that Ian survives.

I think this is one of the only "alternate theories" I could entertain (end result still being EP did it).

E.g. she wants them to test the Beef Wellington, nothing there. Make a big show of suddenly dumping the dehydrator, make LE think they've recovered a key piece of evidence, but surprise! Nothing there either. In the meantime, the real origin of the poison has been obfuscated, and the actual incriminating evidence gotten rid of discreetly.

Am I remembering correctly that everyone bought a different dish to the meal? If we want to go even further with this theory... perhaps she managed to lace one of the guests' contributions? Then if / when the police get around to testing the other attendees' cookware, the only trace of poisonous mushroom will appear to originate with one of the other guests.

....I'm just not sure if she'd be playing such 4D chess.

 

[Shamrock1]

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The biggest problem I have with the theory that someone wanted to frame EP is that the culprit would have to be willing to also murder two innocent children. Some recipes such as cream soups contain mushrooms that once blended are unrecognizable so there’s no guarantee the kids wouldn’t end up poisoned too.

In fact there would be no way to control who ended up ingesting the poison so you’d have to look for someone who didn’t care who died. And had access to EP’s cupboard.
JMO

That assumes that the poison was in the shared lunch. We don’t know that.

Really? If the mushrooms were prefectly safe, why are three people dead?

May not have been those specific mushrooms, or even mushrooms in general. We don’t know what poisoned them.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Is it known for certain that it is something that Simon ingested.
It could very well be from a disease.

If it was something he ingested and it was serious which it was, did anyone search his home for what this substance was to remove it. To prevent the same thing happening to others.

 

[Charlot123]

Have been following this case but have been away travelling so not replying.

I am quite bemused/perplexed by the number of people proposing alternative theories like framing, or the teenagers being responsible for mistaken mushroom identification, or that the deceased getting sick at another meal on the same day. As far as I know, there's been nothing to suggest at all that another meal may be the issue. Even EP acknowledges her meal is the problem, hence why she also "got sick". It seems pretty clear that the Beef Wellington is the source of the poisoned food.

I guess it's fun to be devil's advocate but some of the propositions seem incredibly far-fetched. Is it just that people want to give the benefit of the doubt or do people really see something in EP that makes you feel she would not be capable? I am really curious as I am a big believer in Occams Razor, though I would be quite willing to be blindsided by an alternative!

There are only two theories I personally (IMHO, MOO) could consider:
1) Someone did switch out the mushrooms and EP was the intended target. Very reasonable theory, though that person would have to be confident the teens would not also eat the meal or
2) EP intended to make the guests ill but not die.

The later seeming unlikely given how aware how poisonous death caps are.

MOO

The theories come for one reason:

- AFAIK, no one reported that amanita phalloides toxin was found in Beef Wellington. Or did I miss anything?

- we don't have any report on the dehydrator contents

- we don't know the results of the post mortems.

- we also don't fully know the story, who left whom, and why. And, if there are new people in their lives.

Logically, yes, it looks like if one person serves food and four of her guests have symptoms of poisoning and three died, and one barely survived, then the poisoner is most likely going to be the host. IMO, this is what could have happened.

Only now the host has to get away with it.
We expect LE to find traces of the said poison in the bodies, and in the food.

What if there is none?

Then the poi gets away with it.

Unless another poison will be looked for, and found.

The idea of blaming it on amanita is great, because mushroom poisoning can be accidental. If Coumadin or thallium is found in food or drink, it will be harder to explain. (Could be anything, btw. I just know of these two). So all I would like to see is that no one blindly follows amanita lead alone. Because EP might come across as a naive loner who believes in unicorns, but a woman amassing a decent portfolio is in no way stupid. She is a smart planner. And if she keeps shelves of mushroom books in her library, chances are, she wants it to be blamed on mushrooms because mushroom poisonings are usually random and can be accidental. She might have even added a tad of amanita toxin but the main poison could be different.

And it is very possible that she invited the whole group hoping that Simon would come, as I am not quite sure her goal was to get back with him. She probably wants a divorce, and custody of the kids, and all her money. Simon didn't show up. EP didn't count on it.

(As to why not change the food to a not poisoned one seeing that he didn't come. This would have been logical. This would make me think that the poison was in something served early. Or maybe, they didn't tell her Simon would not show up).
`•
Another version - she is set up by another party, because of the same, money and children. Less likely, but at least there is a motive.

 

[JLZ]

Has anyone thought E & S could be in it together? They thought E wouldn't be suspected because she had no motive, and S contrived not to be there, as alibi.

 

[jepop]

Has it been confirned that Simon was poisoned ?

Or is it still just speculation that's been raised since the recent events.

Speculation only.

 

[jepop]

Has anyone thought E & S could be in it together? They thought E wouldn't be suspected because she had no motive, and S contrived not to be there, as alibi.

So many speculative scenarios have crossed my mind, including this one.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Speculation only.

Thanks, I thought so.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Next thing we might hear is that EP never missed a Midsomer Murders episode.
Or that she was a huge Agatha Christie fan.

Ooh how suspicious is that

Guilty!