Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #9

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As far as I understand it, we don't know if TM is the alleged mistress or if the woman interviewed extensively is another woman ex-colleague or the alleged mistress or TM. In my view QPS is only pointing to one person (male), with the possibility of an accomplice (male/female). IMO.

TM is the woman who has been interviewed several times and recently hired a lawyer. This was written about in the press with quotes lifted directly from her C21 profile - although they stopped short at actually naming her.

As to her, or anyone else being a mistress, this is just rumour and speculation.
 
Depending on who is ulitmately charged and the brief of evidence, I wouldn't discount a guilty plea. That coupled with a skillful mitigation plea would take a few years off the potential sentence.

What if there is a confession before an arrest/charges? Would that knock some more years off?
 
Speaking to locals has caused me to try and think outside the square - that GBC didn't murder his wife. It helps throw new light.

We know the house was declared a crime scene and was closed off for a week and we can be fairly sure because of the two car/roundabout investigations that more than one person is likely to be arrested.

We know that TM has been questioned extensively. Seemingly more intensively than anyone.

Perhaps GBC witnessed a murder and is criminally liable for his activities that night, but is not the murderer. It would explain why he quickly got lawyers for damage control.

Think 'Fatal Attraction' perhaps?

^this

As guilty as he seems, he's acting how My kids do when one did something but they don't want to dob for fear of being in trouble also.
 
Speaking to locals has caused me to try and think outside the square - that GBC didn't murder his wife. It helps throw new light.

We know the house was declared a crime scene and was closed off for a week and we can be fairly sure because of the two car/roundabout investigations that more than one person is likely to be arrested.

We know that TM has been questioned extensively. Seemingly more intensively than anyone.

Perhaps GBC witnessed a murder and is criminally liable for his activities that night, but is not the murderer. It would explain why he quickly got lawyers for damage control.

Think 'Fatal Attraction' perhaps?

Why would GBC cover up for a mistress though? An affair with a crazy woman is forgivable, but covering up the murder of your wife and mother of your child isn't.
 
What if there is a confession before an arrest/charges? Would that knock some more years off?

IMO it's too late for that. The underlying principle is that by confessing early, a suspect or defendent demonstrates remorse and also saves time and resources that would have been deployed in the investigation. From what we know there has been no significant cooperation with police.....but I could be wrong.

An early guilty plea will have some effect on any sentence as it saves the court the expense of a trial. There are many other factors that influence sentencing but cooperation with police and a plea of guilty are two of the big ones.
 
Why would GBC cover up for a mistress though? An affair with a crazy woman is forgivable, but covering up the murder of your wife and mother of your child isn't.

I don't know why GBC may be involved if he wasn't the murderer. That is still my greatest problem with GBC being the murderer and other people covering up for him. Someone quipped way back that "Friends help you move... true friends help you move bodies".

Under what circumstance would it be better to help someone dispose of a body rather than encourage them to confess? I can't fathom that one.
 
I
An early guilty plea will have some effect on any sentence as it saves the court the expense of a trial. There are many other factors that influence sentencing but cooperation with police and a plea of guilty are two of the big ones.

ACTUSREUS: Thank you for your informative contribution to our knowledge. Helps us to understand the sentencing process and the factors involved therein.
 
I know what you mean Zorro......It just seems so inhumane.
 
Its really p*ssing me off when i keep seeing remarks from BC's or "friends of her husband" regarding depression.....

WTF has that got to do with anything?????

We might hear a lot more about depression and suicide before this case is finished. The legal reps of whoever is charged with Allison's murder are either going to have to create reasonable doubt she was actually murdered, or create doubt their client/s were responsible. Depending on the nature of the evidence, relying on suicide caused by depression (a known 'killer') may be something they have in their bag of tricks. I think we'd all guess the likelihood anything in the evidence will point to suicide is so slim it's an Olsen twin. I also don't think Allison's family would have promised her justice in the eulogy if anyone connected to their family had made a suggestion she self-harmed.

Maybe from what Hawkins has said, there will be plenty of evidence this wasn't suicide. In that case, depression probably will have nothing to do with the case, other than the extreme sadness most of us would feel that Allison fought that during life, to end up being treated as she was in her final hours. I get some satisfaction that the killer is squirming, I just hope they are experiencing even a small percentage of the absolute fear and panic Allison no doubt (imo) felt.
 
At worst Zorro.....I may help him dispose the body (out of fear for my own life - if I said no)....But on the first chance I had to get to the police, I would be telling them everything I know....and that I was scared poopless, that if I didnt help him, he would want me shut upped for good.
 
What if there is a confession before an arrest/charges? Would that knock some more years off?

If I'm not misquoting Hawkins, there is a substantial sentence reduction in response to a guilty plea for manslaughter. There is no similar reduction for a guilty plea to the charge of murder. Hence the imbalance in the number of guilty pleas to manslaughter versus limited admissions to murder.

I went back and found it - he said :

"...if the case is largely circumstantial then the prosecution doesn't even really produce a theory as to what actually happened beyond the simple assertion that the accused caused the death of the deceased. If there is a plea of guilty then there is no trial and, since the penalty is mandatory, there is no need for the convicted person to then say anything at the sentence hearing.

If it becomes a manslaughter trial then the Crown simply has to prove that the accused caused the death and very few details are required for that. A guilty plea is very common to mansluaghter because that plea will ordinarily reduce the sentence by 30%. A guilty plea to murder is cery uncommon, because there is no sentence discount for the plea..."

Clicking on the username and choosing "Find all posts by..." can be quite useful - I almost want to copy and paste all of Hawkins stuff into one document and sell it as an e-book ;-)
 
I don't know why GBC may be involved if he wasn't the murderer. That is still my greatest problem with GBC being the murderer and other people covering up for him. Someone quipped way back that "Friends help you move... true friends help you move bodies".

Under what circumstance would it be better to help someone dispose of a body rather than encourage them to confess? I can't fathom that one.

That was me who said that. I was arguing that it was possible that the mistress might have helped out of misguided loyalty or love or something.

For me personally the only thing that might motivate me to help cover up is if I stood to lose as much as the other person, ie I was somehow involved in the murder.

I can't get what Hawkins words out of my head: "It seems to be a particularly nasty and confronting matter. Not the sort of case that would be pleasant for jurors." I hope it wasn't premeditated and I hope she did not suffer.
 
I believe that there are some further significant details about this death emerging. It seems to be a particularly nasty and confronting matter. Not the sort of case that would be pleasant for jurors.

Just speculation on your part Hawkins?
 
We might hear a lot more about depression and suicide before this case is finished. The legal reps of whoever is charged with Allison's murder are either going to have to create reasonable doubt she was actually murdered, or create doubt their client/s were responsible. Depending on the nature of the evidence, relying on suicide caused by depression (a known 'killer') may be something they have in their bag of tricks. I think we'd all guess the likelihood anything in the evidence will point to suicide is so slim it's an Olsen twin. I also don't think Allison's family would have promised her justice in the eulogy if anyone connected to their family had made a suggestion she self-harmed.

Maybe from what Hawkins has said, there will be plenty of evidence this wasn't suicide. In that case, depression probably will have nothing to do with the case, other than the extreme sadness most of us would feel that Allison fought that during life, to end up being treated as she was in her final hours. I get some satisfaction that the killer is squirming, I just hope they are experiencing even a small percentage of the absolute fear and panic Allison no doubt (imo) felt.
keyboredom: Thank you for your contribution. Det. Ainsworth stated that he was looking at 'unlawful homicide' and believed Allison knew her killer. IMO meaning a human killer other than herself, not depression/suicide by her own hand.
 
That was me who said that. I was arguing that it was possible that the mistress might have helped out of misguided loyalty or love or something.

For me personally the only thing that might motivate me to help cover up is if I stood to lose as much as the other person, ie I was somehow involved in the murder.

I can't get what Hawkins words out of my head: "It seems to be a particularly nasty and confronting matter. Not the sort of case that would be pleasant for jurors." I hope it wasn't premeditated and I hope she did not suffer.

I can't take on board what Hawkins has said. At this stage it is in my unsubstantiated basket. It could allude to the forensics coming back and to an upcoming QPS media release. Wait and see.
 
We might hear a lot more about depression and suicide before this case is finished. The legal reps of whoever is charged with Allison's murder are either going to have to create reasonable doubt she was actually murdered, or create doubt their client/s were responsible. Depending on the nature of the evidence, relying on suicide caused by depression (a known 'killer') may be something they have in their bag of tricks. I think we'd all guess the likelihood anything in the evidence will point to suicide is so slim it's an Olsen twin. I also don't think Allison's family would have promised her justice in the eulogy if anyone connected to their family had made a suggestion she self-harmed.

Maybe from what Hawkins has said, there will be plenty of evidence this wasn't suicide. In that case, depression probably will have nothing to do with the case, other than the extreme sadness most of us would feel that Allison fought that during life, to end up being treated as she was in her final hours. I get some satisfaction that the killer is squirming, I just hope they are experiencing even a small percentage of the absolute fear and panic Allison no doubt (imo) felt.


The autopsy will reveal if it was suicide (but it appears they already know it was murder!). Jumping of a bridge results in different trauma than being hit with a stick. On the other hand, if her body showed any signs of human interference after death, then there is no case for suicide either. Whether depressed or not, this was not suicide IMO.
 
Stop discussing other posters.
Stop discussing other posters.
Stop discussing other posters.
 
P.S. You can discuss what other posters said, but not who they might be, gender, where they live, etc. etc.
 
My apologies Kimster
85.gif
Sorry :)
 
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