Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #21

[Spinnaker]

Droc also talks significantly about the making of snuff movies at the upholstery shop near Fremantle - link to Droc summary:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12365251#post12365251

See also below article:

Post Newspaper Dec 1989

Further musings below which have been superbly summarised by Bart regards to Droc's Snuff videos allegations - thread #4, post #756:

"I am somewhat different than than most people you would meet. I can only give you scant details about how I knew about the snuff movies and the secret room in the factory etc, but I can say that I discovered intimate details, and had such personal and intimate (whisper) details about the woman who for 15 years prior, had an unhealthy obsession with me. I gleaned much knowledge. Such detail that I can and seem unable to erase, an enactment of what happened in that secret room. The same apply s with gleaning details about the taxi driver, such as watching him take photo’s of blondes on the Fremantle streets, and parades, linked to his rage when his blonde sister dyed her hair black, and the flippant comment that ‘people are nothing but cattle.’ to his boss of fifteen years prior when he worked in a slaughter house and that (quote his boss who had no knowledge of my suspicions) “it wold be just as easy to slash a humans throat.

The routine was this! The girl and he cruised in a cab until they spotted a girl. The girl would offer to share the cab making her feel secure, and then when in the cab, a stun gun was used. They were then driven to the factory where one or more were waiting, the killing and the filming was over before nights end, and the bodies were dumped just before daybreak and transported in the taxi, and with the girl sitting in the back acting as a passenger. They were not about sex, just a hatred for ‘rich little daddy’s brats,’ to quote something the girl said on a previous occasion.

After each girl was murdered, several things happened. One guy left for the UK taking the snuff movie with him, and which is a small fortune on the black market and certain Arab countries. The taxi driver ceased driving cabs after about four weeks after each murder, and changed houses before the next murder, and also recommenced driving cabs, and the girl departed for the Eastern States after each murder; returning at different stages before the next murder, and the gaps between those departures was relative to the long gap between the murder of the 2nd girl, and the murder of the last girl.

Snuff movies are 20 min movies without voices, and old 45 style records and music. From the pick-up point, 15 min to the factory, 20 min plus 10 for filming and prep, and maximum 45 mins to disposal. Midnight as . a starting time, and time to take in some scenery, the body could have been dumped by as early as two o’clock."

Further info and link to above can be found below:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12365254#post12365254

 

[Spinnaker]

As this is a sleuthing site, I feel that it is important to post the distance between Droc's house in Myraree and XX's workplace in Myraree:

 

[ESH]

Further musings below which have been superbly summarised by Bart regards to Droc's Snuff videos allegations - thread #4, post #756:

"I am somewhat different than than most people you would meet. I can only give you scant details about how I knew about the snuff movies and the secret room in the factory etc, but I can say that I discovered intimate details, and had such personal and intimate (whisper) details about the woman who for 15 years prior, had an unhealthy obsession with me. I gleaned much knowledge. Such detail that I can and seem unable to erase, an enactment of what happened in that secret room. The same apply s with gleaning details about the taxi driver, such as watching him take photo’s of blondes on the Fremantle streets, and parades, linked to his rage when his blonde sister dyed her hair black, and the flippant comment that ‘people are nothing but cattle.’ to his boss of fifteen years prior when he worked in a slaughter house and that (quote his boss who had no knowledge of my suspicions) “it wold be just as easy to slash a humans throat.

The routine was this! The girl and he cruised in a cab until they spotted a girl. The girl would offer to share the cab making her feel secure, and then when in the cab, a stun gun was used. They were then driven to the factory where one or more were waiting, the killing and the filming was over before nights end, and the bodies were dumped just before daybreak and transported in the taxi, and with the girl sitting in the back acting as a passenger. They were not about sex, just a hatred for ‘rich little daddy’s brats,’ to quote something the girl said on a previous occasion.

After each girl was murdered, several things happened. One guy left for the UK taking the snuff movie with him, and which is a small fortune on the black market and certain Arab countries. The taxi driver ceased driving cabs after about four weeks after each murder, and changed houses before the next murder, and also recommenced driving cabs, and the girl departed for the Eastern States after each murder; returning at different stages before the next murder, and the gaps between those departures was relative to the long gap between the murder of the 2nd girl, and the murder of the last girl.

Snuff movies are 20 min movies without voices, and old 45 style records and music. From the pick-up point, 15 min to the factory, 20 min plus 10 for filming and prep, and maximum 45 mins to disposal. Midnight as . a starting time, and time to take in some scenery, the body could have been dumped by as early as two o’clock."

Further info and link to above can be found below:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12365254#post12365254

Those words are INCREDIBLY DISTURBING......I don't have words to express how I felt whilst reading that 'quote'

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[El Gordo]

Further musings below which have been superbly summarised by Bart regards to Droc's Snuff videos allegations - thread #4, post #756:

"I am somewhat different than than most people you would meet. I can only give you scant details about how I knew about the snuff movies and the secret room in the factory etc, but I can say that I discovered intimate details, and had such personal and intimate (whisper) details about the woman who for 15 years prior, had an unhealthy obsession with me. I gleaned much knowledge. Such detail that I can and seem unable to erase, an enactment of what happened in that secret room. The same apply s with gleaning details about the taxi driver, such as watching him take photo’s of blondes on the Fremantle streets, and parades, linked to his rage when his blonde sister dyed her hair black, and the flippant comment that ‘people are nothing but cattle.’ to his boss of fifteen years prior when he worked in a slaughter house and that (quote his boss who had no knowledge of my suspicions) “it wold be just as easy to slash a humans throat.

The routine was this! The girl and he cruised in a cab until they spotted a girl. The girl would offer to share the cab making her feel secure, and then when in the cab, a stun gun was used. They were then driven to the factory where one or more were waiting, the killing and the filming was over before nights end, and the bodies were dumped just before daybreak and transported in the taxi, and with the girl sitting in the back acting as a passenger. They were not about sex, just a hatred for ‘rich little daddy’s brats,’ to quote something the girl said on a previous occasion.

After each girl was murdered, several things happened. One guy left for the UK taking the snuff movie with him, and which is a small fortune on the black market and certain Arab countries. The taxi driver ceased driving cabs after about four weeks after each murder, and changed houses before the next murder, and also recommenced driving cabs, and the girl departed for the Eastern States after each murder; returning at different stages before the next murder, and the gaps between those departures was relative to the long gap between the murder of the 2nd girl, and the murder of the last girl.

Snuff movies are 20 min movies without voices, and old 45 style records and music. From the pick-up point, 15 min to the factory, 20 min plus 10 for filming and prep, and maximum 45 mins to disposal. Midnight as . a starting time, and time to take in some scenery, the body could have been dumped by as early as two o’clock."

Further info and link to above can be found below:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12365254#post12365254

There are a couple of things in this story that make no sense ,

The unhealthy obsession the woman had for him ... I think it may be the other way around

The re-enactment of what went on in the secret room ... how could you re enact it

The time frame to make a snuff movie , or any movie for that matter ... why the rush ... it makes no sense

 

[Spinnaker]

There are a couple of things in this story that make no sense ,

The unhealthy obsession the woman had for him ... I think it may be the other way around

The re-enactment of what went on in the secret room ... how could you re enact it

The time frame to make a snuff movie , or any movie for that matter ... why the rush ... it makes no sense

I agree, more likely obsession is the other way around. Does however clarify a timeframe - 15 years.

Not quite sure re other queries.



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[Innerchild]

Those words are INCREDIBLY DISTURBING......I don't have words to express how I felt whilst reading that 'quote'

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Or reading the December 1989 news article posted by Spinny. I wonder how deeply they investigated the 28 year old person who had shown 18 year old Mr Stitchnoth the video. There was no further report on someone convicted for possessing the video was there?

The lawyer defending Stichnoth was Judith Fordham now a Barrister and Associate Professor in Forensic Science at Murdoch University.

http://www.wabar.asn.au/barristerimages/Um4wGS8b3ncvtVCZ.pdf

 

[Innerchild]

There are a couple of things in this story that make no sense ,

The unhealthy obsession the woman had for him ... I think it may be the other way around

The re-enactment of what went on in the secret room ... how could you re enact it

The time frame to make a snuff movie , or any movie for that matter ... why the rush ... it makes no sense

Might have been a verbal enactment or with gestures? I would think you could only be that quick with much practice, with filming involved. I assume the speed would be needed so no one could hear or notice any strange noises or people coming and going from the location.

Such detail that I can and seem unable to erase, an enactment of what happened in that secret room.

 

[El Gordo]

I went back into the past to see if I could find the name of the murderer who Michelle allegedly got the heroin for , but I got side tracked

Ive only been in the forum since January 2018 and have not read everything ... but on page one of thread two in 2015 , there is a reference to Telecom Man ... does anyone know this story , who was Telecom Man

 

[janwa]

There are a couple of things in this story that make no sense ,

The unhealthy obsession the woman had for him ... I think it may be the other way around

The re-enactment of what went on in the secret room ... how could you re enact it

The time frame to make a snuff movie , or any movie for that matter ... why the rush ... it makes no sense

If she was an observer she could act out what she had seen.

The time frame would have to be as short as possible so that all partakers in making the movie could distance themselves quickly before the victims disappearance raises any alarm.

 

[Innerchild]

I went back into the past to see if I could find the name of the murderer who Michelle allegedly got the heroin for , but I got side tracked

Ive only been in the forum since January 2018 and have not read everything ... but on page one of thread two in 2015 , there is a reference to Telecom Man ... does anyone know this story , who was Telecom Man

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-2&p=11906999#post11906999

Link for Bart's summary of Droc's information on Michelle. He assumed she got caught in possession of heroin flying it into WA for the convicted murder I think.

Not sure where Telecom Man came from? One of Bart's list of suspects.

 

[lampformypath]

Hi El Gordo,

Don't know if this helps but here's a quote from Peter Kurten #1316 Thread 4 (2015)

"Just after the key period of the murders, the Police made a local appeal to women in the area who had been approached by males in vehicles within the Claremont area. A late model White Commodore Station Wagon was reported numerous times by different women. The descriptions of these vehicles varied, but were consistent with a Telecom/Telstra vehicle. At the time the organisation was making a transition between those two names. From what I understand, the Police never identified this male. They did however get another suspect from some other source, I assume an informant. This new suspect "Telecom man" happened to work for Telstra and drove their vehicles at the time. This must have consolidated their case against him warranting further investigations.

I believe that the person reported to be offering lifts in the Claremont area was not the "Telecom man" suspect that the Police had, rather an unknown person who the Police never identified.

<modsnip>

I believe this comment made by GreenDevil is crucial to identifying the person responsible for these crimes:

However they received reports that a woman was asked if they needed a lift by a person driving the same type of car that the company he worked for used. Macro know JM worked for that company during the key period of 1996-97. There was also reports from one of their projects that a male person driving the same type of company vehicle and offered someone a lift and made unwanted advances towards them etc.
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Last edited by sillybilly; 04-18-2016 at 01:39 PM.Reason: rudeness or disrespect toward other posters is not allowed "

​

I went back into the past to see if I could find the name of the murderer who Michelle allegedly got the heroin for , but I got side tracked

Ive only been in the forum since January 2018 and have not read everything ... but on page one of thread two in 2015 , there is a reference to Telecom Man ... does anyone know this story , who was Telecom Man

 

[El Gordo]

Hi El Gordo,

Don't know if this helps but here's a quote from Peter Kurten #1316 Thread 4 (2015)

"Just after the key period of the murders, the Police made a local appeal to women in the area who had been approached by males in vehicles within the Claremont area. A late model White Commodore Station Wagon was reported numerous times by different women. The descriptions of these vehicles varied, but were consistent with a Telecom/Telstra vehicle. At the time the organisation was making a transition between those two names. From what I understand, the Police never identified this male. They did however get another suspect from some other source, I assume an informant. This new suspect "Telecom man" happened to work for Telstra and drove their vehicles at the time. This must have consolidated their case against him warranting further investigations.

I believe that the person reported to be offering lifts in the Claremont area was not the "Telecom man" suspect that the Police had, rather an unknown person who the Police never identified.

<modsnip>

I believe this comment made by GreenDevil is crucial to identifying the person responsible for these crimes:

However they received reports that a woman was asked if they needed a lift by a person driving the same type of car that the company he worked for used. Macro know JM worked for that company during the key period of 1996-97. There was also reports from one of their projects that a male person driving the same type of company vehicle and offered someone a lift and made unwanted advances towards them etc.
​

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Last edited by sillybilly; 04-18-2016 at 01:39 PM.Reason: rudeness or disrespect toward other posters is not allowed "

​

Thank you, that helps a lot .... I got thrown with Telecom Man being mentioned in 2015

 

[lampformypath]

Hi All,

Hope everyone is enjoying the lovely long weekend. I found this old video from 2004 (Channel Seven News Report about CSK investigations) and it contains footage of the search of LW's home (which I think the screen shots we had awhile back came from?) it shows the police checking the home and using "Luminol " for the first time to check thoroughly and I mean thoroughly! The report starts from 0.42 on this video. I found it interesting to look back and just listen to police explaining that they might have to "move on" from old LW after all this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD7w_VMCi9c

 

[petedavo.au]

Droc also talks significantly about the making of snuff movies at the upholstery shop near Fremantle - link to Droc summary:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...h-Western-Australia-4&p=12365251#post12365251

See also below article:

Post Newspaper Dec 1989

Or reading the December 1989 news article posted by Spinny. I wonder how deeply they investigated the 28 year old person who had shown 18 year old Mr Stitchnoth the video. There was no further report on someone convicted for possessing the video was there?

The lawyer defending Stichnoth was Judith Fordham now a Barrister and Associate Professor in Forensic Science at Murdoch University.

http://www.wabar.asn.au/barristerimages/Um4wGS8b3ncvtVCZ.pdf

I know Professor Fordham, so I hope that doesn't mean that I'll have to go through the verified inside process. Judith being his barrister at the time simply put his story as per his instructions, as any defence lawyer should. Anyhow, the chap was in court on a shoplifting charge. His story of someone else showing him a snuff movie is extraneous, and was his apparent excuse for making him go out of character to commit shoplifting. The veracity of which, can be determined by checking in the succeeding months for news reports of anyone being charged with processing such material, of which I think that you'll find none whatsoever. And you'll find that close inspection of the article his excuse didn't materially affect the decision of the magistrate. He is reported as offending after leaving Court on a preceding occasion on an earlier shoplifting charge. In other words, it's bogus.

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[lwsk]

. Ok lets throw another spanner in the works - perhaps the Accused has access to a real taxi?

Maybe it was one of those fancy ones that arent black & white or swan taxi. I think u pay a little extra for em it would fit right in claremont. The person to ask what kind of taxi resembles the one in question would b the bloke who saw one on pippidinny rd and the other person who sighted a suss looking taxi in wellard. Maybe their description could shed some light on this. Ie... number plates logos stickers on passenger windows and of course the roof light. Back then they werent really that presentable as a taxi these days its cameras and various types of cars and pretty much one kind of driver . Standard cabs back then were either vans station wagons (ford) or sedans (ford also) typically that is... cant say i remember many holdens. Correct me if i am wrong...
This would make it a confusing scenario if yr driving in the dark almost hit a taxi with no lights on assume its a ford coz its a taxi but really its a throw off holden. Impersonating a taxi. Quite easily done in those circumstances.

 

[El Gordo]

Ive gone back through the threads looking for the name of the murderer Michelle M was supposed to have supplied heroin to without luck , but i realized a lot of what ive learnt about her is not in these threads

It seems she has been discussed much more elsewhere because there is a lot of information about her that does not seem to appear here , prison records , facebook details , death notices , apparent suicide etc.

This woman was a very cunning person , lived her life under one name , sometimes two , had all her official ID in another and after being released from prison in her late 40s got a passport in her birthname , that was none of the previous mentioned names
This may not seem important but after a life of crime involving heroin this woman got a passport to go overseas , including visas into Thailand ... when i learnt this i knew this was a very smart person

I shall continue to try and find the name i was looking for , it may be of relevance to someone

 

[lwsk]

There is someone confirmed as getting away El Gordo - the KK victim. She certainly did not go willingly and would be classified as a blitz attack.

My guess would be that was a mixture of blitz, manipulation & at times throwing on the charm - I also believe there is a taxi element somewhere along the line.

He was still learning and he made mistakes with potentially a few girls but obviously not between sarah jane and ciara

 

[Spinnaker]

I know Professor Fordham, so I hope that doesn't mean that I'll have to go through the verified inside process. Judith being his barrister at the time simply put his story as per his instructions, as any defence lawyer should. Anyhow, the chap was in court on a shoplifting charge. His story of someone else showing him a snuff movie is extraneous, and was his apparent excuse for making him go out of character to commit shoplifting. The veracity of which, can be determined by checking in the succeeding months for news reports of anyone being charged with processing such material, of which I think that you'll find none whatsoever. And you'll find that close inspection of the article his excuse didn't materially affect the decision of the magistrate. He is reported as offending after leaving Court on a preceding occasion on an earlier shoplifting charge. In other words, it's bogus.

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PD I do not think you can make the assumption that it is bogus, without evidence of this. It is very unlikely that the police would be interested in charging the shoplifter, more interested in the source and higher up the chain IMO.

 

[Spinnaker]

Quote snipped

Ive gone back through the threads looking for the name of the murderer Michelle M was supposed to have supplied heroin to without luck

Perhaps Michelle M (MM/MB) supplied heroin to XX in jail? It is quite a risk to take for someone?

Can we also place her in Myaree around 85/86 perhaps?

 

[El Gordo]

Quote snipped Perhaps Michelle M (MM/MB) supplied heroin to XX in jail? It is quite a risk to take for someone?

Can we also place her in Myaree around 85/86 perhaps?

All of Drocs stories place her around Fremantle from 1983 , at Ginos etc. ... but I don't think anyone mentioned where she lived

Fremantle to Myaree is not a big jump , or to Willagee for that matter ... I know from newspaper articles I have seen about her involvement in child *advertiser censored* that she lived in Karawarra in around 1988/89 and she left the state at this time... but returned in the early 1990s according to Drocs stories ... I always thought it odd he never mentioned the newspaper articles to verify his story , I think he did not know about them