Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #21

[MrsNathanDrake]

....then factor in how much it's going to cost to prosecute him, even that million and a half pages of evidence probably cost a million to print and there will be copies.

:jail:

I did a quick calculation when I first heard that 1.5mil pages mentioned and at my old work, which was 10-15 years ago, it would have cost at least $500,000 for one copy, if done inhouse. Usually at a bare minimum there are two copies (one for the other side and one for the judge). And if they had to outsource it (which I think they would have to, I'm pretty sure it took me 6wks to do 30,000 pages for one case) then the price would surely go up. Plus add in inflation over the last decade or so.

Ouch!

 

[El Gordo]

I don't think the accused was into doing a second job. He would earn a lot more in the Telstra team doing overtime being called out after hours. There's no evidence of substantial wealth. He only ever had one property at a time, there were no big cabin cruisers parked in his yard. He volunteered on Little Athletics. If he did voluntary work in the mid 90's he'd probably gravitate to stuff he was interested in. Maybe like being in the pit crew of a speedway team for instance.

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Thank you for reminding me of something , I agree the accused would be way better off on overtime than working a second job

Anyone who worked in hospitality can confirm this , a lot of people working in hospitality at second jobs were working under false names or for cash , because the tax rate for a second job was 50% ... the money was not good anyway for a lot of people without giving half of it to the taxman

It was not a short cut to wealth for to many

 

[Marylouise911]

I don't think the accused was into doing a second job. He would earn a lot more in the Telstra team doing overtime being called out after hours. There's no evidence of substantial wealth. He only ever had one property at a time, there were no big cabin cruisers parked in his yard. He volunteered on Little Athletics. If he did voluntary work in the mid 90's he'd probably gravitate to stuff he was interested in. Maybe like being in the pit crew of a speedway team for instance.

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Hi PD,

I just thought I would add to this.

I really don't believe MM was wearing a white shirt in the security video. Jane Rimmer was last seen wearing a navy blue shirt with a dark jacket (seen draped over her arms in the footage) and yet in the video footage it looks as though she is wearing a light/white top. We know the footage was enhanced but I doubt it was just her appearance that changed. While I do think MM had dark hair, I don't think he was wearing a light coloured shirt. If Jane was wearing dark navy blue then he could be wearing olive green or light denim or mustard for all we know. If that's the case then it sort of goes against the idea that he was in typical hospitality uniform coming from a second job. MOO

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[Canning Vale]

If JR caught the train to work she would get off at Loch Street Station - did JR perhaps take a short cut through the cemetery to her work?

Regarding the possibility that the CSK had spotted JR whilst she travelled to and from work in Government Rd. Perhaps he had tried to build a rapport with JR, enough to strike up a conversation. I think in the past Spooks had suggested this.

If the CSK is the MM who approached JR, perhaps that’s why she didn’t embrace him, perhaps she was a bit wary of him, because he kept popping up – a bit of a pain. JMO

 

[El Gordo]

Hi PD,

I just thought I would add to this.

I really don't believe MM was wearing a white shirt in the security video. Jane Rimmer was last seen wearing a navy blue shirt with a dark jacket (seen draped over her arms in the footage) and yet in the video footage it looks as though she is wearing a light/white top. We know the footage was enhanced but I doubt it was just her appearance that changed. While I do think MM had dark hair, I don't think he was wearing a light coloured shirt. If Jane was wearing dark navy blue then he could be wearing olive green or light denim or mustard for all we know. If that's the case then it sort of goes against the idea that he was in typical hospitality uniform coming from a second job. MOO

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Well spotted , that is the first original comment I have seen on this subject in I don't know how long

 

[Canning Vale]

Calling it a safe suburb when one of the most notorious serial killers had called it his home. The Birnies, another notorious serial kiler team had used Stirling Highway as their trawling avenue.
Numerous murders, and obvious large scale crime.

Quite the opposite a safe suburb, one the most dangerous suburbs to live in the country.

20 years difference between Cooke and Cutler is where we are today. The point was, as we sit here today, those people int he area knew of the Cooke era. Many of them had been through the Cooke terror.

Eric Edgar Cooke, nicknamed the "Night Caller", was an Australian serial killer. From 1959 to 1963, he terrorised the city of Perth, Western Australia, by committing 22 violent crimes, eight of which resulted in deaths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Edgar_Cooke

Serial killers and more serial killers attributed to the immediate area. Safe suburb is a perception and opinion, not reality.

Homeswest and large scale flats have always been an issue in the area.

I totally agree. I don't think people were living in fear. I think the public had become more conscious of the threat, and some girls were still taking risks going home with boys they didn't know.

But sure, parents were probably more concerned and some required a meeting before you could shoot of with their daughter.

Ciara's undoing I think was her recent return from Ireland. Although we haven't heard if accused has met the victims yet.

Well done , this is the best original comment I have seen on this subject in I don't know how long!

 

[Innerchild]

MM was once described as Blonde.

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It wasn't MM who was described as blonde. MM didn't exist as far as the public knew for another 11 or 12 years.

The guy in the taxi Steve Ross gave a ride to with SS the night before she went missing was described as blonde, handsome and well dressed.

Camile Maclean said she was approached by a man with blond bobbed hair the night before Ciara went missing. He told her his father was a policeman and offered to drive her home.

This same witness said he looked like a man with blond hair seen talking to Jane on the security video the night she disappeared. We assume she must have been shown Jane's cctv to see if she could recognise the blonde man. The vision that was released to the public 12 years later is unliekey to have hair changed from blond to black.

IMO she was shown someone else not MM, who had blond hair, but was not shown in the publicly released version. Maybe because his father was a cop and they had ruled him out, even though he was seen talking to Jane and offered Camile a ride home the night before Ciara disappeared. Just co-incidence.

 

[Innerchild]

Hi PD,

I just thought I would add to this.

I really don't believe MM was wearing a white shirt in the security video. Jane Rimmer was last seen wearing a navy blue shirt with a dark jacket (seen draped over her arms in the footage) and yet in the video footage it looks as though she is wearing a light/white top. We know the footage was enhanced but I doubt it was just her appearance that changed. While I do think MM had dark hair, I don't think he was wearing a light coloured shirt. If Jane was wearing dark navy blue then he could be wearing olive green or light denim or mustard for all we know. If that's the case then it sort of goes against the idea that he was in typical hospitality uniform coming from a second job. MOO

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Good point. I think most posters would have forgotten that on the cctv dark colours usually looked white. Sometimes black stayed black. I posted some original images to illustrate this a while back. Black trousers and navy blue jacket posted in the light and in cctv, both colours came out white.

It is interesting that some of the black pants or dark jackets stayed black on the cctv and we theorised that possible because of the type of fabric they were made from and how they reflected or absorbed light in the dark conditions on film.

I also think it's unlikely he came from working at the pub as the hotel was still fairly full at 2 minutes past midnight from the indoor shot.

Also it was a Saturday night so no speedway, although she may have met the MM the night before at the Conti from the speedway. Maybe arranged to meet the following night?

 

[Marylouise911]

Good point. I think most posters would have forgotten that on the cctv dark colours usually looked white. Sometimes black stayed black. I posted some original images to illustrate this a while back. Black trousers and navy blue jacket posted in the light and in cctv, both colours came out white.

It is interesting that some of the black pants or dark jackets stayed black on the cctv and we theorised that possible because of the type of fabric they were made from and how they reflected or absorbed light in the dark conditions on film.

I also think it's unlikely he came from working at the pub as the hotel was still fairly full at 2 minutes past midnight from the indoor shot.

Also it was a Saturday night so no speedway, although she may have met the MM the night before at the Conti from the speedway. Maybe arranged to meet the following night?

Interesting about the different shades for different clothing fabric. Makes sense and definately adds a new perspective when viewing the video. Thanks!

I also agree that the Claremont Speedway was the starting point of the night for these crimes, or at least on more than one occasion.



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[Eaglette]

We have black and white CCTV at work and it also "sees" certain black fabric as the reverse - white etc. Blonde hair as gray colour. It can be very confusing. FYI "metalicus tops" are totally see through on the camera. In other words; bra outlines and knickers/g-strings can be seen. We have mucked around jumping in front of it to the delight of some staff members and to the horror of others. I could not believe my eyes unless I had watched it myself.

I cannot comment with certainty on MM in the CCTV footage - as I feel MM could be a total "red herring" and, TBH looks like the back of an ex of mine! I do not think WAPOL could even use this footage as evidence as it is so bad. As the saying goes MM "the back of your heads a treat" (?) I would like to say Yes - it looks like the back of BRE.

I also agree the Claremont Speedway would be ammunition for a rev head - for a prowl night.

 

[ApplePie80]

Well spotted , that is the first original comment I have seen on this subject in I don't know how long

Well done , this is the best original comment I have seen on this subject in I don't know how long

Is it just me or...?

 

[lampformypath]

Is it just me or...?

Noticed that too! Ditto!

 

[b4u]

Noticed that too! Ditto!

Well spotted
and
Well done :drumroll:

 

[DRT]

Good point. I think most posters would have forgotten that on the cctv dark colours usually looked white. Sometimes black stayed black. I posted some original images to illustrate this a while back. Black trousers and navy blue jacket posted in the light and in cctv, both colours came out white.

It is interesting that some of the black pants or dark jackets stayed black on the cctv and we theorised that possible because of the type of fabric they were made from and how they reflected or absorbed light in the dark conditions on film.

I also think it's unlikely he came from working at the pub as the hotel was still fairly full at 2 minutes past midnight from the indoor shot.

Also it was a Saturday night so no speedway, although she may have met the MM the night before at the Conti from the speedway. Maybe arranged to meet the following night?

In 1996 I am not quite convinced that the Claremont speedway was all on a Friday night in 1996. There was a speedway event on 25 May 1996 which was a Saturday. This was only 2 weeks prior to JR's disappearance. I don't have access to June 1996 West Australian papers so can't check papers via those links and trove does not have those details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Nu3tJ2o30

 

[Spinnaker]

The below info comes from Grok's timeline dated 1994 - has anyone got further info on this as believe this took place at Claremont Subway?

Saturday January 1 (1994) in the early hours of New Years day and young women was dragged from her car after she left Club Bayview.
The attempted rape failed only when the women fought off her attacker, who ran into the shadows and vanished (Devils Garden) (a2)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1dw95lekr...E - BRE TIMELINE 1968 to 2017 - GROK.doc?dl=0

EDIT: Attaching print confirming Claremont Subway - my personal view is that this was the CSK's hunting ground for a while.

 

[ilikeclouds]

Hi PD,

I just thought I would add to this.

I really don't believe MM was wearing a white shirt in the security video. Jane Rimmer was last seen wearing a navy blue shirt with a dark jacket (seen draped over her arms in the footage) and yet in the video footage it looks as though she is wearing a light/white top. We know the footage was enhanced but I doubt it was just her appearance that changed. While I do think MM had dark hair, I don't think he was wearing a light coloured shirt. If Jane was wearing dark navy blue then he could be wearing olive green or light denim or mustard for all we know. If that's the case then it sort of goes against the idea that he was in typical hospitality uniform coming from a second job. MOO

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Ahh Marylouise, I forgot to add that about the colour!! I was thinking the exact same thing earlier but got side-tracked with other thoughts haha. I was thinking it may have been black or navy blue.

PD
I can agree with you about the second job too unless it was a set roster for when you're on call it wouldn't be worth giving up being on call. I have a friend that works in a govt related job and while they're meant to be on call every 3 weeks they can swap their on-call weeks if someone is on holidays or something it mucks the order up.

 

[petedavo.au]

Ahh Marylouise, I forgot to add that about the colour!! I was thinking the exact same thing earlier but got side-tracked with other thoughts haha. I was thinking it may have been black or navy blue.

PD
I can agree with you about the second job too unless it was a set roster for when you're on call it wouldn't be worth giving up being on call. I have a friend that works in a govt related job and while they're meant to be on call every 3 weeks they can swap their on-call weeks if someone is on holidays or something it mucks the order up.

Thanks.
I think I now know who MM probably is and I think he does too after the accused was arrested. (There's various plausible reasons that he never twigged that it was him in the CCTV originally) I think MM is a vital witness for establishing three certain elements of circumstance, so I won't discuss the MM video anymore in case doing so might prejudice a fair trial if my guess (based entirely upon information already in these threads, including his probable identity) is correct.

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[ilikeclouds]

PD

Now I am very intrigued!!
:tantrum:

 

[Spinnaker]

Thanks.
I think I now know who MM probably is and I think he does too after the accused was arrested. (There's various plausible reasons that he never twigged that it was him in the CCTV originally) I think MM is a vital witness for establishing three certain elements of circumstance, so I won't discuss the MM video anymore in case doing so might prejudice a fair trial if my guess (based entirely upon information already in these threads, including his probable identity) is correct.

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I guess one very plausible reason would be if MM had deceased prior to video being released.

I know you are not referring to a deceased person PD but something to consider


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[Innerchild]

In 1996 I am not quite convinced that the Claremont speedway was all on a Friday night in 1996. There was a speedway event on 25 May 1996 which was a Saturday. This was only 2 weeks prior to JR's disappearance. I don't have access to June 1996 West Australian papers so can't check papers via those links and trove does not have those details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_Nu3tJ2o30

The video was posted in 2013. Possible they got the dates wrong?

This video of Claremont Speedway on 08/25/1996 posted by the same person would be on a Sunday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHkjtacbT8U

Is he correct and Speedway was on Saturdays and Sundays or is he mistaken in the dates?