Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

[Sutton]

Isn't there a Hwy somewhere, maybe outside Vancouver where girls have been disappearing?

The Highway of Tears. Estimates are as high as 50 missing women, but it's probably not a single killer. Some of the feet could belong to women who went missing along the highway. I don't know what they are doing as far as DNA records.

 

[Sutton]

I have had some pretty in-depth posts about evidence, questioning, etc. Where do you think I got all that from? TV? No.

I'd love to hear some more of what you've been told. If you want to share

 

[Parkie]

Going by my memory was it Pilkentons Pig Farm?

 

[Parkie]

They do say that, don't they. But after that pig farmer outside Vancouver butchered those 50-odd prostitutes around the time of the Green River guy in Seattle, people around here keep a very open mind. And their doors locked. And yet the feet still keep turning up. Even one just a few weeks ago.

Canadians are punching way over their weight when it comes to serial killers. It would seem that they are very motivated individuals.

I agree Elwood, not all would be suicides & I should have mentioned that earlier.

 

[88mph]

I followed up a few posts down, BF Post #146. At the time, I was trying to find an early article that profiled the killer as having washed his vehicle on site (which I think would be physical evidence, not a profile). I couldn't find it, so just used the one where Paul Ferguson said of the killer, "He enjoys driving and would look after his vehicle, which he'd wash and polish a lot. He would be very much aware of any evidence in the vehicle and be careful."

I would love to hear everyone's profile related thoughts.

I recall that from years back, that he'd wash his car onsite. Seems unlikely to me, I doubt you'd hang around any longer than required.

 

[Bartholemeus]

I recall that from years back, that he'd wash his car onsite. Seems unlikely to me, I doubt you'd hang around any longer than required.

Not sure which BF poster was responsible for that one but a few doozies over the years;

- Macro found cleaning materials on site so he washed his car at the dump zone
- Macro found traces of date rape drugs in the girls systems
- My sister was a cop on the case and told the girls were cut in a specific place to immobilize them (i.e. back of ankles)


None of these are true.

 

[Parkie]

Not sure which BF poster was responsible for that one but a few doozies over the years;

- Macro found cleaning materials on site so he washed his car at the dump zone
- Macro found traces of date rape drugs in the girls systems
- My sister was a cop on the case and told the girls were cut in a specific place to immobilize them (i.e. back of ankles)

None of these are true.

Ta; Barth for this. There was a prolific lady blogger who mentioned the CSK washing his car including the tailgate with chemicals. Along with mentioning other stuff like the csk pushing the victims off this tailgate. Totally made up & we really did not need this rot at that time. Thanks for posting this so we can clarify.

 

[Parkie]

There have been a few who superimpose themselves in this case 200 % more than me. I have watched them come & go. Some have questioned their knowledge of their school & some have caught them out. When they say they knew so & so I am most suspect of this. However I let the Frankie thing go it`s course and let others comment. I didn`t want to really get into the Frankie comment.

 

[Peter Kurten]

Pretty sure it was John of UK and old Phantom62 (TD) who made up those claims. Let us not forget that John of UK was the same one who suggested the victims where taken to there locations by boat. What a cracker!!

 

[Elwood_1]

The Highway of Tears. Estimates are as high as 50 missing women, but it's probably not a single killer. Some of the feet could belong to women who went missing along the highway. I don't know what they are doing as far as DNA records.

There are some big rivers and inlets that come down to the ocean, and a lot of really dense forest. You could dump anywhere and they would never be found. The cops keep talking it down, but no one believes it. They convicted one guy a couple of years ago, but there are just too many cases spread over too wide an area for it to be one person, and people have been disappearing for years. People say that there are weirdo's in Perth. Just go to Canada. There are some seriously disturbed individuals running around up there. We used to go up there a lot, but after a long road trip from Seattle to Edmonton we made the decision to not go again, unless it was just to Vancouver or somewhere like that. The truck drivers will deliberately try to run you off the road just for giggles, and once you leave the big cities you never seem to see a cop - unlike the USA. Plus here you can shoot back. You would be amazed at how polite that makes people.

The thing about the feet though...that Malaysian Airlines flight had 160 odd people on board. That is over 300 feet. But not one has washed up. Here feet are rotting off (supposed) suicide victims and popping up all the time. But not one single foot has been found off that aircraft. It is almost like it isn't in the water at all.

 

[Elwood_1]

Going by my memory was it Pilkentons Pig Farm?

Not sure. There is an area in East Vancouver where the workers all just stand on the side of the roads, and you can just drive through and make your selection if that is your thing. I got lost there one day and couldn't figure out what all these super friendly, really good looking women were doing hanging out in this crappy looking industrial area. Duh..

Apparently the pig farmer had a thing about not liking them and used to take the girls home and disassemble them for his pigs. It went of for years. He was only busted when a women went to his farm for some reason and walked into his shed while he was in the process off taking one of the women apart. Awkward.

 

[Elwood_1]

I recall that from years back, that he'd wash his car onsite. Seems unlikely to me, I doubt you'd hang around any longer than required.

I don't understand how someone so careful with their car would transport a leaking body in it and risk a spill. That is why I tend to think that the victims were killed cleanly, or very close to the dump site. Blood is really hard to get rid of. You need a heap of water or bleach, and that isn't something you want inside a car that you love. Even if you lined the boot, you then would have the liner to get rid of unless you stood in the middle of your back yard and scrubbed it. I can't figure that part out.
If you transported a live victim clean up would take minutes. Transport a body and you might never get rid of the mess.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Let's try this again;

"Hypothetically", if the throats were cut and the police are correct in their belief that the girls were killed soon after and close by then;

1. Where is the kill site? My understanding is police searched comprehensively within a 5km radius to find the kill site but couldn't find it. If this "hypothesis" is correct then we'd have to assume there was a fair it of blood on the ground.

2. How did he contain them from the time they got in the car to the ritual (most likely rape IMO) and kill site? If it was blitz attack then it's obvious because he had to restrain them in the blitz attack. But if the girls got into his car, it's likely he had a gun or knife.

3. How did he transport them with regards to keeping blood off everything?

If these assumptions are correct we can also assume that;

1. He most likely raped them before death
2. He killed them outside of his car. Most likely in a public location but possibly in his house (unlikely IMO)

Some options

1. Kill site was on a hard surface and blood washed away. Maybe cemetery. Maybe the rape was on a soft surface (assuming there was a rape), but kill on hard surface. Could have he had a tank of water in the back of his car to help dilute the blood?
2. Kill site was on a soft surface. Possible sand where he could cover it up.
3. Did he have a plastic lined boot? (highly likely IMO). Does this bring plastic lined boot man from Highgate back into the picture?

Another question

My understanding is the girls had no ligature marks. This suggests it was unlikely they were tied up. So how can you blitz attack someone and not tie them up? Karra is said to be linked but Karra was blitz attack and he tied his victim up. That's a fair shift in MO.

 

[Frankie1972]

There have been a few who superimpose themselves in this case 200 % more than me. I have watched them come & go. Some have questioned their knowledge of their school & some have caught them out. When they say they knew so & so I am most suspect of this. However I let the Frankie thing go it`s course and let others comment. I didn`t want to really get into the Frankie comment.

Why perkie you can talk to me

 

[88mph]

Let's try this again;

Some options

1. Kill site was on a hard surface and blood washed away. Maybe cemetery. Maybe the rape was on a soft surface (assuming there was a rape), but kill on hard surface. Could have he had a tank of water in the back of his car to help dilute the blood?
2. Kill site was on a soft surface. Possible sand where he could cover it up.
3. Did he have a plastic lined boot? (highly likely IMO). Does this bring plastic lined boot man from Highgate back into the picture?

Another question

My understanding is the girls had no ligature marks. This suggests it was unlikely they were tied up. So how can you blitz attack someone and not tie them up? Karra is said to be linked but Karra was blitz attack and he tied his victim up. That's a fair shift in MO.

Plastic lined Highgate guy was driving a Commodore sedan according to the CSI doco, which links the Commodore but possibly eliminates himself as its not a wagon.

Agree that it does seem odd he would change his MO and not tie them up, however we don't know for certain that he did/didn't tie them up.

Would it make more sense to cut the throat as you're disposing of the body? Somehow immobilise until you've reached the dump site then slit the throat as you're leaving to ensure you don't have a repeat of the Karrakatta scenario.

 

[Sutton]

...
Another question

My understanding is the girls had no ligature marks. This suggests it was unlikely they were tied up. So how can you blitz attack someone and not tie them up? Karra is said to be linked but Karra was blitz attack and he tied his victim up. That's a fair shift in MO.

...Agree that it does seem odd he would change his MO and not tie them up, however we don't know for certain that he did/didn't tie them up.

Snipped.

1. Maybe Jane was restrained, but her wrists were too decomposed to show evidence. If her vision was obscured (like Karrakatta's), then the killer wouldn't have to bind her very tightly.

2. Maybe the killer accidentally killed CG during the blitz attack. Or maybe he just knocked her unconscious. No need to restrain her very tightly.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Would it make more sense to cut the throat as you're disposing of the body? Somehow immobilise until you've reached the dump site then slit the throat as you're leaving to ensure you don't have a repeat of the Karrakatta scenario.

This makes sense and I've strongly considered it previously but;

- Either there is a blitz attack or the girls accept a lift
- He takes them to his ritual spot
- Then doesn't let them go and starts driving out of the city. The girls would realise their fate and fight and scream like mad. Too much of a risk for the CSK I feel. To keep them from kicking and screaming he would have had to have them tightly bound and my understanding is they didn't have ligature marks.

 

[Bartholemeus]

Snipped.

1. Maybe Jane was restrained, but her wrists were too decomposed to show evidence. If her vision was obscured (like Karrakatta's), then the killer wouldn't have to bind her very tightly.

2. Maybe the killer accidentally killed CG during the blitz attack. Or maybe he just knocked her unconscious. No need to restrain her very tightly.

There's still the problem of the girls being alive for a long journey - they'd sense their fate and go absolutely nuts thereby causing ligature marks.

 

[JackHigh]

This is why i believe the incident involving the girl who broke her leg jumping from the cab is the work of the CSK.

How do you blitz attack someone in your car so as to leave no mess, whilst making a fast get away.

You have an accomplice hiding in the back who slips a noose over the victims head from behind and strangles them, allowing the driver to concentrate on getting away.

I cannot believe this incident hasnt been persued further as the use of a taxi and the 2 party scenario can easily fit the CSK crime MO, probably better than any other scenario given so far.

I think she was one lucky lady.

 

[elastic]

Let's try this again;

"Hypothetically", if the throats were cut and the police are correct in their belief that the girls were killed soon after and close by then;

1. Where is the kill site? My understanding is police searched comprehensively within a 5km radius to find the kill site but couldn't find it. If this "hypothesis" is correct then we'd have to assume there was a fair it of blood on the ground.

2. How did he contain them from the time they got in the car to the ritual (most likely rape IMO) and kill site? If it was blitz attack then it's obvious because he had to restrain them in the blitz attack. But if the girls got into his car, it's likely he had a gun or knife.

3. How did he transport them with regards to keeping blood off everything?

If these assumptions are correct we can also assume that;

1. He most likely raped them before death
2. He killed them outside of his car. Most likely in a public location but possibly in his house (unlikely IMO)

Some options

1. Kill site was on a hard surface and blood washed away. Maybe cemetery. Maybe the rape was on a soft surface (assuming there was a rape), but kill on hard surface. Could have he had a tank of water in the back of his car to help dilute the blood?
2. Kill site was on a soft surface. Possible sand where he could cover it up.
3. Did he have a plastic lined boot? (highly likely IMO). Does this bring plastic lined boot man from Highgate back into the picture?

Another question

My understanding is the girls had no ligature marks. This suggests it was unlikely they were tied up. So how can you blitz attack someone and not tie them up? Karra is said to be linked but Karra was blitz attack and he tied his victim up. That's a fair shift in MO.

No idea where you get this understanding from, The Irish Times article about Ciara specifically says atleast Jane was strangled, this article was created from direct contact with Ciaras dad as the article was mainly about how he dealt with the ordeal.

The article specifically says 'Jane Rimmer was strangled' this article would not have been subjected to WA's gag order.

Its more than likely they were bound and dumped. The decomposed state of the bodies would make it hard to determine ligatures..

Lets be honest tho, if you wanted to demobilise a small female then strangling them to death/unconcious and transporting them bound in a boot late at night would not be difficult.

Bart, when you say 'your understanding' why is it that you are privvy to certain facts no one else has ever heard of...

If you were going to slit someones throat it would be near the dump site. Unless you drained there blood at another location then moved them whch would be time consuming to wait before the body could be moved cleanly.

I think the CSK victims were hit hard initially to either knock them out (eg. Ciara with the fire poker), then further strangled, thrown into the back of the stationwagon (hence the fibres), bound whilst the victim was unconcious/dead from the head blow and further strangulation after the blow to head, then transported bound/unconcious/dead..

Any male could king hit (cowards punch) a female from the side or behind and they would be almost killed and certainly not mobile or able to fight back... If strangulation occured then they would be greatly incapacitated...

I dont think this needs over thinking...