Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #6

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I think the only way WAPOL will ever repair their reputation is to actually solve this case, or atleast get it to the courts. The damage this case has done to WAPOL is on a level i dont think has ever been seen elsewhere. The whole operation just built a powerful image that the WA Police force is just a bunch of keystone cops, and this has stuck. They have a massive inability to solve major crime or major murder/missing person cases. The federal police dont seem too interested to get involved in any cases at a state level and there doesnt seem to be an avenue of accountability for any of these police forces which is sad for the victims and their families that they will never be able to confirm they got a fair honest hard working investigation into their loved ones death.

Two open cases come to light and they would probably be considered WA's two most high profile murder mysterys The CSK and Gerard Ross. Why these two are so secretive is a mystery. But usually it implies something went horribly wrong.

I also wonder if the DNA is contaminated like in the Steven Avery case and cant be compared legally. If the sample was tiny did it get damaged whilst trying to build a partial profile eg. Like in the Steven Avery trial?

Something went wrong and we need a department here that oversees and reviews cases that the police have had for over 10 years to ensure the handling of the case has been proper, or then gwts automatically handed to our federal police to take over and review. Or maybe a federal department reviews the handling of cases police are struggling to solve to ensure nothing untoward is happening. Its a shame but WA is so backward it would never happen.
 
elastic said:
They were not rare. I hung around claremont alot. I dont come from the area but used there pubs all the time. Steves in nedlands and also the conti etc. You claim is was a quite insular scene but to my group of friends we use to roll in frequently from outside the western suburbs.

I am a surfer. I Know alot of people with panel vans.. thats not to say they owned them at the time of karrakatta but i know of atleast 2 people who did and i have been in atleast one of the vehicles owned around the time of karrakatta. We use to take his car down the beach all the time. I use to swag it whilst he slept in the van when we camped down near busselton lates 80s early 90s. Anyways he is not a suspect. Or atleast not aware of being one.

The police were very vague asked where he was during the week karrakatta occured. He couldnt remember. They said it was an investigation into a cold case and they were taking all samples for a historical rape that occured. He gave up a sample and they left. No mention of CSK.

You often claim you know the area all too well. But i can assure you alot of what you say isnt entirely accurate eg. Only locals used claremont pubs. Well i was there too all throughout the 90s, my mates were there, and i live around 25km away.

I heard off an old friend i fell out with and just recently spoke to at a pub i was at near claremont ironically (cottosloe) that he too was interviewed but there was a year gap between the two. We had a laugh because i told him that my other mate got interviewed too. I dont speak with him but it was quite good to see him after a number of years unexpectedly.

I havent bothered to share because i dont post here anymore. This case is boring me now and i dont find it that facinating. It comes down to police incompetence and cases like that get a little disinteresting aftet a while.

Im not here to argue. I didnt intend to make a habit of posting here because i am done with the whole CSK debacle.. the guy isnt even on the same league as a serial killer like the East Area Rapist so its lost alot of appeal.

This was purely to share. Take it as fact or fiction whether it helps or not. But to me it confirms the vehicle or atleast what the police think the vehicle is and i thought that would be good for this thread seeing i cant prove anything without revealing there actual identitys which i wont and even then it still not actual proof. It is facinating though.

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1. You're the person who claimed MLC guys were running a brothel in Claremont right? I rest my case as to who knows what when it comes to the western suburbs.
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Bartholemeus said:
1. You're the person who claimed MLC guys were running a brothel in Claremont right? I rest my case as to who knows what when it comes to the western suburbs.
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Haha umm no. I remember someone did post about a secret brothel run by some girls tho. unfortunately for you it was not me and anyone who can find the original post in thread 2 or 3 should be able to confirm that instantly.

Please though rest your case.
 
Bart, the reality is you dont like me posting here because my theories fall more in line with what has been known in the media and these dont fall in line with what you think happened in this case.

My first thoughts were that someone who was either a meth or speed addict waited in a dark spot with their car parked metres away in a secluded area and took the victims with a violent blitz attack, more than likely knocking the victim out using either strangulation or violent blunt force trauma from behind before tieing them up with washing line and throwing them into the back seat of the commodore and driving them to their kill spot and raping them, then killing them (because of the karrakatta witness being alive after being 'left for dead') and then dumpiing them where the victims were found weeks later. Whether one victim got in voluntarily i cannot rule out. But the victims were obviously blitz attacked before being abducted in a similar way to karrakatta, just in another car most likely than the panel van. Even the victim seen talking to the commodore was more than likely blitzed further down the road after the driver probably sussed her out.
 
alwaysquestion said:
Coroner's Inquest report re disappeasrance of Sara Lee Davey contains very interesting info on Richard Dorrough. have a read. will be interested to see if people consider he may be the CSK. VERY INTERESTING PSYCH PROFILE and BACKGROUND OF DORROUGH INCLUDED. Sara had also been drinking at a hotel called The Continental in Broome. http://www.coronerscourt.wa.gov.au/_files/Davey (Sara-Lee).pdf
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Interesting read, thanks for the link, I believe papertrail had done some research to eliminate Richard Dorrough from being in and around perth at the time of the murders however, the way that woman was killed in Sydney would be strikingly similar to the CSK victims if in fact they did have neck wounds. not to mention mystery man certainly looked like a young Dorrough in appearance from what could be seen of the b/w image.

Is there anyway of finding the dates HMS Geelong was docked in or around Perth to see if these would coincide with the CSK abduction?

On the other hand though, if the Karrakatta rape is in fact linked then that would cut down the probability of Dorrough as he would have been around 15/16 at the time, I know there are plenty of young rapists but it makes it even more unlikely.

Dorrough struggling to come to terms with the fact he killed 3 women after violent murders is a perfect example of what peterK was talking about in regards to why the CSK may have stopped though. I guess even violent psychopaths can have a concious.
 
He fits perfectly and the profile looks like mystery man could karacutta explain why the victim survived? Not sure on the finer details of that to all the experts out there. They do have the Dna though so surely if rules him out.
 
elastic said:
You often claim you know the area all too well. But i can assure you alot of what you say isnt entirely accurate eg. Only locals used claremont pubs. Well i was there too all throughout the 90s, my mates were there, and i live around 25km away.
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There's only two of them - Conti and Club. They had a specific clientelle back then which would still exist today, although not to the same extent. It was the place to be seen and would be full of local ex-private school people. To suggest anyone and everyone was going there from all over Perth is laughable. This is not an area like Northbridge or Freo where there's a heap of pubs/clubs within walking distance. It's also not an area surrounded by a heap of different social demographics. It's not convenient to travel either. There's one pub there that closes at 12 and many of them then move onto CBV. With a specific crowd who at the time all wore the same sort of clothes. It's not like Steve's or the Swannie where most people fit in and feel comfortable. I grew up there but you seem to think you know better.
 
elastic said:
Bart, the reality is you dont like me posting here because my theories fall more in line with what has been known in the media and these dont fall in line with what you think happened in this case.

My first thoughts were that someone who was either a meth or speed addict waited in a dark spot with their car parked metres away in a secluded area and took the victims with a violent blitz attack, more than likely knocking the victim out using either strangulation or violent blunt force trauma from behind before tieing them up with washing line and throwing them into the back seat of the commodore and driving them to their kill spot and raping them, then killing them (because of the karrakatta witness being alive after being 'left for dead') and then dumpiing them where the victims were found weeks later. Whether one victim got in voluntarily i cannot rule out. But the victims were obviously blitz attacked before being abducted in a similar way to karrakatta, just in another car most likely than the panel van. Even the victim seen talking to the commodore was more than likely blitzed further down the road after the driver probably sussed her out.
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I don't have a problem with you posting here. I don't have a problem with your theories (unless the MLC is yours which I've been unable to check so far because the search engine on this platform is poor). As for your theories aligning with the media (it's one guy rather than the media by and large), I've never seen one that assumes the CSK was a speed addict, strangulation, blunt force trauma, or that they were tied up, or anything recent that assumes a panel van was used.

As for your panel van DNA testing story, I'm not definitely discounting it but you have to admit there are some serious flaws in it. Perhaps you can explain why you have only now decided to bring this to the table? It's not as if it hasn't been talked about.
 
I know several people that were in the pub, interviewed by police. They were not from 'the area' wearing specific clothes.

Bartholemeus said:
There's only two of them - Conti and Club. They had a specific clientelle back then which would still exist today, although not to the same extent. It was the place to be seen and would be full of local ex-private school people. To suggest anyone and everyone was going there from all over Perth is laughable. This is not an area like Northbridge or Freo where there's a heap of pubs/clubs within walking distance. It's also not an area surrounded by a heap of different social demographics. It's not convenient to travel either. There's one pub there that closes at 12 and many of them then move onto CBV. With a specific crowd who at the time all wore the same sort of clothes. It's not like Steve's or the Swannie where most people fit in and feel comfortable. I grew up there but you seem to think you know better.
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I think they left them to be discovered in positions that in the event of discovery police could connect the dots so to speak by the very fact that the bodies intersect the Claremont hotel.
Speaking to several people of reputable source, whoever it was, had been playing a game with police. That cocky Im smarter than police game someone made note of, a couple of threads back. It is said police have more than a few clues the crimes are connected.

Interestingly enough, Cutler body is not found, Sarahs body not found, then all of a sudden the bodies start appearing out in the open roadside. Had someone gained confidence enough to think he was infallible?

Im hoping the dump sites relate to something. That remains of Sarah, and Julie for that matter are recovered in some form, if not just for the relatives. Police have a lot of information recovered from the sites they have not realised. Some it I dare say to make sure they have the right person, and not some wannabe, which does happen apparently.

It was a game with police apparently, and that game has 'stopped'. Site attributes connected the crimes. What does that say?

Psi said:
If the offender is remorseful after the crime, then perhaps he wants the girls returned to their family. It doesn't look like he went to much effort to hide the girls, more like was trying to conceal his activity at the site (in case someone drives past). Perhaps something was left at the site to indicate his regret? Maybe the straight line is a clue to Sarah's location without putting himself at risk of detection. Perhaps he is surprised that she hasn't been located.
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Im just amazed at the people who claimed to have 'lived in the area' have little to no information.
I didn't live in the area and without bringing the topic up, people gave me more info than has been gleaned in this thread. Most the info I take with a grain of salt, but when it is second hand, some first hand info from upper echelon police, it holds some weight. Certainly way more detail than reported here, and newspapers for that matter.
I dare say journalists know a truck load more than they have reported.

Ill have to check, but scanning through the pages, users mention how the killer had felt remorse for the victims? Where did that come from? Fabricated romance?
 
Hi guys !!!
What a interesting new thread after reading the entire threads over the course of weeks , I decided to sign up , I'm not a local but was born in Perth , now reside on the eastern side of Australia , what I find intriguing a few other cases in Australia is that there seems to be a poi and then the case goes stone motherless cold
But with this case it seems to pop up quite regularly in the media ie durrough , coward , taxi , ninja man , ect
please keep up the good work

hi hopes
 
Thread #6! You guys have been busy :) Last time I browsed here, JudoMan was a hot topic and we were discussing the ins and outs of cars that might have been used in the Karakatta rape attack. I found about about the CSK episode of that Australian crime series podcast, which I otherwise wouldn't have discovered so cheers to whoever posted it. I wonder if the author read these and the comments over on the BF forums during his research ?
 
theres obviously still plenty of interest in the case , I wonder how active the investigation is , and how many detectives are still working on the case , it must still have a few members working on it
 
Hihopes said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but this article states most of the accused have been cleared of any wrong doing ? https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/w...f-suspicion-burnt-several-innocent-men/#page1
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Turn of events;

1. Bret Christian from The Post newspaper (a local weekly rag that services Perth's Western Suburbs) claimed Macro discovered a forensic link between the Karra victim and CG. In his next edition he went on to clarify this forensic link was DNA. No other media reported this story (initially) and police declined to comment. They neither confirmed nor denied.

2. A couple of other papers piggybacked off this story. Some referenced BC's article by using the words "The Post newspaper reported earlier..." and some didn't. But it was clear there was one source to this story and that was The Post. Other media outlets have been unable to verify either way. Usually a story of this magnitude is reported by all media because they're able to verify some sort of accuracy.

3. The West then published this article claiming all the publicly named POI's have been ruled. There's no reference to any confirmation that it's actually true. This coincided with the 20th anniversary of the CSK. They needed a story.

4. SR wrote a rather articulate letter to the editor of one of the papers. He talked a lot about the case, how he was unfairly targeted, but never actually mentioned he had been ruled out. Make of that what you will but I find it odd that this was never mentioned.

5. It's since been written by BC of The Post that Macro discovered the DNA link in 2011.



There's a huge amount of pros and cons as to whether Macro in fact do have DNA or not (discussed through the 6 threads here) but here's a few thing to think about;

1. It's highly unlikely any of these men would be ruled out unless DNA specifically ruled them out. So if they've been comprehensively ruled out they must have DNA

2. Even if they did have DNA, I doubt they'd be letting LW know he's been ruled out anyway.



Some are convinced Macro have DNA, others lean towards them not having it, and some the jury is out.

There's probably not enough surety to lock in DNA yet.
 
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