Australia Australia - Claremont SK, 1996-97, Perth, WA - #14

[Spooks-R-Us]

Personally I do not see it any different to the discussions re SMM. It's an unsolved crime around the time of the CSK. We are trying to figure out any further connections.

You seem to not want to talk about DA Spooks and shut this discussions down.

Is there a reason for this Spooks?


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I did make observations about a pattern between DA and other unsolved murders and you didn't like it.

I'm not trying to shut the discussion about DA down, so I don't appreciate your accusation.

I just think you need to make some links from DA to the CSK case so this thread stays on topic. Otherwise DA case deserves her own thread.

No need to point the finger.

BTW SMM worked in similar area to other CSK cases?? What's your rationale for including DA discussion here??? There's 100's of unsolved murders - why include DA here?

 

[Spinnaker]

I did make observations about a pattern between DA and other unsolved murders and you didn't like it.

I'm not trying to shut the discussion about DA down, so I don't appreciate your accusation.

I just think you need to make some links from DA to the CSK case so this thread stays on topic. Otherwise DA case deserves her own thread.

No need to point the finger.

BTW SMM worked in similar area to other CSK cases?? What's your rationale for including DA discussion here??? There's 100's of unsolved murders - why include DA here?

An open & intelligent (not joking or nonsensical) review of the facts surrounding the DA case, within this WS group who hold a wealth of knowledge (this thread) would have been very helpful. The DA murder occurred at a time when the CSK may have moved elsewhere - a quick review to rule in or out would have been helpful.

I do not wish to discuss this with you any further Spooks as unfair on other Sleuthers.

 

[petedavo.au]

Maybe you need to start a seperate thread for a DA discussion ???

This existing thread should do fine, for that purpose>

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?327387-AUSTRALIA-Perth-missing-murdered-SK-victims

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[Sutton]

...I just think you need to make some links from DA to the CSK case so this thread stays on topic. Otherwise DA case deserves her own thread...

DEBORAH ANDERSON

24.01.2000, am - Deborah Anderson tells her father she is going to visit the South Perth Zoo. She borrows her step-mother's white Ford Laser. The step-mom needs to use the car to go to work in the afternoon and DA is supposed to return it before that time.

24.01.2000, 9:39am - Deborah stops at an ATM in Woodvale and withdraws money.

25.01.2000, 12:26am - Deborah's charred remains are found in the front seat of the Ford Laser at a shopping center in Middle Swan

* A few months later new forensic evidence revealed the vehicle had travelled to Geraldton and back on the day that DA's remains were found. (Since she was found at 12:26am, I assume the vehicle travelled to Geraldton on 24 Jan.)

* DA may have been spotted on Brand Highway/Great Northern Highway (assuming on 24 Jan).

Why would DA drive to Geraldton--a 4 hour trip, each way--if she knew she needed to return the car that afternoon? She supposedly had a secret older bf, but that doesn't explain taking the vehicle on an 8 hour road trip when she was supposed to return the car in the afternoon.

And what were the forensics that proved the vehicle had driven to Geraldton before it was set on fire?

Similarities to the CSK case:

1. Same age as the known victims. DA was 24 (other known victims between
17-27)

2. Perth suburb and same era

3. DA was last seen on 24 Jan, and SS disappeared on 27 Jan. Many of the disappearances and assaults on the Perth area occurred on holidays or on holiday weekends.

4. CG's claddagh brooch was taken by her killer. DA's engagement ring was taken by her killer.

What pattern did you point out Spooks between DA and the known victims? [emoji846] I missed it.

Sources:

http://missingandmurderedaustralia.blogspot.com/2000/01/deborah-michell-anderson.html?m=1

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/deborah-anderson/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8933212.amp

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

The only pattern I observed was about car types driven by 3 victims NOT linked to CSK, that's why I suggested moving discussion of DA case to another thread.

Using your logic Sutton we should open this CSK thread to discussing any person aged 17-27 years old, murdered in a Perth suburb, from 1988 to 1997, where the killer kept a trophy???

 

[JoWa]

Personally I do not see it any different to the discussions re SMM. It's an unsolved crime around the time of the CSK. We are trying to figure out any further connections.

You seem to not want to talk about DA Spooks and shut this discussions down.

Is there a reason for this Spooks?


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Play nice! We are adults.

I personally don't think DA is related, she was found in a burnt out car in middle swan and went missing 4 years (? going from memory) after CSK.
If by SMM you mean Sarah McMahon, she worked and went missing from Claremont which gives her case a link to CSK. IMO this may be why Spooks thinks DA is not connected and it doesn't warrant further looking into.

Happy to be corrected if someone knows of a link to CSK for DA that makes it relevant to this thread. [emoji16]




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[JoWa]

Play nice! We are adults.

I personally don't think DA is related, she was found in a burnt out car in middle swan and went missing 4 years (? going from memory) after CSK.
If by SMM you mean Sarah McMahon, she worked and went missing from Claremont which gives her case a link to CSK. IMO this may be why Spooks thinks DA is not connected and it doesn't warrant further looking into.

Happy to be corrected if someone knows of a link to CSK for DA that makes it relevant to this thread. [emoji16]




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Ignore me, just pressed refresh and got the rest of the conversation.


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[Sutton]

The only pattern I observed was about car types driven by 3 victims NOT linked to CSK, that's why I suggested moving discussion of DA case to another thread.

Using your logic Sutton we should open this CSK thread to discussing any person aged 17-27 years old, murdered in a Perth suburb, from 1988 to 1997, where the killer kept a trophy???

Oh, I thought you were referring to another similarity or connection you'd brought up in the past.

This is a discussion board. If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

No one is claiming DA is related. But the possibility is up for discussion.

 

[Spinnaker]

Ignore me, just pressed refresh and got the rest of the conversation.


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Hi JoWA

I think you will be find that historically DA has been discussed on the CSK threads a number of times in the past, so not a new concept. DA, SMM and indeed others have been discussed by some old time Sleuthers.

I was hoping for a 'fresh eyes' approach given that there is a history of comments in these CSK threads - perhaps they could have been dug out with a fresh look at what was said.

 

[anna.w]

Oh, I thought you were referring to another similarity or connection you'd brought up in the past.

This is a discussion board. If you don't want to discuss it, don't.

No one is claiming DA is related. But the possibility is up for discussion.

Agreed. And that's how connections are made or discounted. Spinnaker, thanks to both you and Sutton for your work on this so far.

I understand why people get concerned at the prospect of specific case threads being hijacked. But given the number of other cases being discussed on here with a view to possible linkages I wouldn't have thought the DA discussion was in any way over the odds.

 

[petedavo.au]

If anyone's forgotten, BRE has been accused and charged. Therefore certain matters are now before the court.
Be wary that sub judice period had began from the time of arrest and doesn't end until conviction (or dismissal).

[video=twitter;864407905524523008]https://twitter.com/petedavo_au/status/864407905524523008[/video]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/ALRCRefJl/2004/24.html

Up to the mods, as to what they're prepared to risk, I suppose.

Anyhow, this might make it easier to explain why no-one can assert any links to other cases BRE isn't charged with, including Spiers at the moment.

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[DRT]

DEBORAH ANDERSON

24.01.2000, am - Deborah Anderson tells her father she is going to visit the South Perth Zoo. She borrows her step-mother's white Ford Laser. The step-mom needs to use the car to go to work in the afternoon and DA is supposed to return it before that time.

24.01.2000, 9:39am - Deborah stops at an ATM in Woodvale and withdraws money.

25.01.2000, 12:26am - Deborah's charred remains are found in the front seat of the Ford Laser at a shopping center in Middle Swan

* A few months later new forensic evidence revealed the vehicle had travelled to Geraldton and back on the day that DA's remains were found. (Since she was found at 12:26am, I assume the vehicle travelled to Geraldton on 24 Jan.)

* DA may have been spotted on Brand Highway/Great Northern Highway (assuming on 24 Jan).

Why would DA drive to Geraldton--a 4 hour trip, each way--if she knew she needed to return the car that afternoon? She supposedly had a secret older bf, but that doesn't explain taking the vehicle on an 8 hour road trip when she was supposed to return the car in the afternoon.

And what were the forensics that proved the vehicle had driven to Geraldton before it was set on fire?

Similarities to the CSK case:

1. Same age as the known victims. DA was 24 (other known victims between
17-27)

2. Perth suburb and same era

3. DA was last seen on 24 Jan, and SS disappeared on 27 Jan. Many of the disappearances and assaults on the Perth area occurred on holidays or on holiday weekends.

4. CG's claddagh brooch was taken by her killer. DA's engagement ring was taken by her killer.

What pattern did you point out Spooks between DA and the known victims? [emoji846] I missed it.

Sources:

http://missingandmurderedaustralia.blogspot.com/2000/01/deborah-michell-anderson.html?m=1

https://www.crimestopperswa.com.au/open-cases/deborah-anderson/

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/8933212.amp

Thanks for summarising. I read a couple of the articles yesterday including the ones above yesterday that in my opinion may indicate that it may be a crime of passion. E.g. told a secret boyfriend it was over. The burning may be to destroy her looks so that no one else gets to see her, even though I am guessing she was deceased, drugged or unconscious at the time the car was burnt. Engagement ring may be taken because it was from someone else.

Another alternative would be burning to get rid of DNA.

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

http://www.thenewsmanual.net/Resources/medialaw_in_australia_03.html

Just to remind everyone of Contempt of Court risks.

 

[Spinnaker]

Just looking at location of DA's burnt car and realised there were other's found in close proximity in Swan View area - I have plotted also on map.

• [FONT=&amp]DA - [FONT=&amp]25th of January 2000 - [/FONT][/FONT]Dance Drive, Middle Swan WA
• SMM - [FONT=&amp]November 8, 2000 - Car found abandoned former Swan View Hospital
  [/FONT]
• LKM - 30 July, 2001 - found in drain at the intersection of Fairfax and Morrison Roads in Swan view
  

[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]

EDIT - Note LM on map is actually LKM (Laura Kate Muckersie).

 

[no name]

Agree anna.w. I think almost everything has been discussed on this thread in the past. Ive been reading along since its inception but chose not to participate until the conversation moved slightly away from CSK for personal reasons, albeit it being reason I discovered this site to begin with and the reason we are here. I think the fact there appear to be quite a few local WA folks engaging atm also makes for relevant discussion of other missing ladies from the area. We sure have enough of them to discuss. Furthermore, im not sure how much additional we can throw out on CSK considering we are awaiting a trial and I dont see there being the slightest chance of any more info we are able to talk about. So, personally, Im happy to have the discussion flow in any direction it flows for along as the mods will allow it or until it flows back again. One thing that that strikes me along with fresh eyes & new ideas, is some of the less obvious observations/conclusions etc that have been drawn previously that pop up again. And whilst I remember some previous discussions more than others, sometimes i go back and not remember having read it at all, or it appears different and my opinion has changed. So chat away I say.
Now DA. Wish I knew more. I remember it happening & just thinking... What? I dont think we ever got conclusive answers then as to why they thought her car went to Gero or what the circumstances may have been.
I'd like to know how much money was taken out of her account for starters? If it was just enough for the day, she probably was planning on going to the zoo.
Who was driving along Brand Highway, was the car seen or was she seen?
Why geraldton - because it corresponds with the odometer and its as good a guess as anywhere else north of perth or was the sighting close to there? For me personally, unless these are answered I could speculate for months and it would be pointless.

 

[Bunnie]

I think the engagement ring give everyone a false focus of crime of passion. I look at the whole and think...took money at ATM... maybe carjacked by someone desperate to get to Geraldton (drugs? Other nefarious reasons?)... driven back to Middle Swan (very near Midland) ...all lower SES and rougher neighbourhoods (not Woodvale though)... perp robs her, hurts her mortally (meaning to or not) and panics and sets fire to destroy evidence (probably had a police record for petty crime), leaving the car in a small shop carpark that he was familiar with so he could run and disappear. Close enough to Midland to be feasible.
Engagement rings are generally worth a few dollars. Easy money.

 

[petedavo.au]

Agree anna.w. I think almost everything has been discussed on this thread in the past. Ive been reading along since its inception but chose not to participate until the conversation moved slightly away from CSK for personal reasons, albeit it being reason I discovered this site to begin with and the reason we are here. I think the fact there appear to be quite a few local WA folks engaging atm also makes for relevant discussion of other missing ladies from the area. We sure have enough of them to discuss. Furthermore, im not sure how much additional we can throw out on CSK considering we are awaiting a trial and I dont see there being the slightest chance of any more info we are able to talk about. So, personally, Im happy to have the discussion flow in any direction it flows for along as the mods will allow it or until it flows back again. One thing that that strikes me along with fresh eyes & new ideas, is some of the less obvious observations/conclusions etc that have been drawn previously that pop up again. And whilst I remember some previous discussions more than others, sometimes i go back and not remember having read it at all, or it appears different and my opinion has changed. So chat away I say.
Now DA. Wish I knew more. I remember it happening & just thinking... What? I dont think we ever got conclusive answers then as to why they thought her car went to Gero or what the circumstances may have been.
I'd like to know how much money was taken out of her account for starters? If it was just enough for the day, she probably was planning on going to the zoo.
Who was driving along Brand Highway, was the car seen or was she seen?
Why geraldton - because it corresponds with the odometer and its as good a guess as anywhere else north of perth or was the sighting close to there? For me personally, unless these are answered I could speculate for months and it would be pointless.

There's an alternative thread open for the many other Perth unsolved missing and murdered cases. for example locating Sarah Spiers, Julie Cutler, who killed Kerry Turner, and if there was a rogue cop ala Judge Dredd like, killing prostitutes, drug dealers culminating in the murder of Shirley Finn in the 1970's
IMO, all the posts unrelated to the present CSK case should be on there.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?327387-AUSTRALIA-Perth-missing-murdered-SK-victims

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[Spinnaker]

Youtube video re DA:

[video=youtube;EqWmzgOzD-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWmzgOzD-s[/video]

 

[DRT]

I think the engagement ring give everyone a false focus of crime of passion. I look at the whole and think...took money at ATM... maybe carjacked by someone desperate to get to Geraldton (drugs? Other nefarious reasons?)... driven back to Middle Swan (very near Midland) ...all lower SES and rougher neighbourhoods (not Woodvale though)... perp robs her, hurts her mortally (meaning to or not) and panics and sets fire to destroy evidence (probably had a police record for petty crime), leaving the car in a small shop carpark that he was familiar with so he could run and disappear. Close enough to Midland to be feasible.
Engagement rings are generally worth a few dollars. Easy money.

I don't disagree with your opinions as possibility and did think of them myself. My focus on passion was not the engagement ring it was more the burning. There are many a reported case of a breakup and a woman being set alight. This I feel could be a variation on that. The engagement ring going missing supported that theory.

Here are a compilation of news reports at the time including photos of Deborah, the car and areas she was seen.
Mentions "small amount of cash".

[video=youtube;UbT24_IDZt0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbT24_IDZt0[/video]
[video=youtube;EqWmzgOzD-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqWmzgOzD-s[/video]

 

[Spooks-R-Us]

There's an alternative thread open for the many other Perth unsolved missing and murdered cases. for example locating Sarah Spiers, Julie Cutler, who killed Kerry Turner, and if there was a rogue cop ala Judge Dredd like, killing prostitutes, drug dealers culminating in the murder of Shirley Finn in the 1970's
IMO, all the posts unrelated to the present CSK case should be on there.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?327387-AUSTRALIA-Perth-missing-murdered-SK-victims

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Totally agree with your suggestion PeteDavo!