Australia - Eight children killed in mass stabbing, Cairns, Qld, 19 Dec 2014 *Arrest*

[possumheart]

Maybe Norena is younger than Lewis - the above courier mail link says she escaped the massacre, this following article says a teenager fought violently with Mersene and fled, escaping the massacre.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-child-killings/story-fnn8dlfs-1227163230745

I hope Norena is younger, because the Mum was such a young thing when she had Lewis! That has to make it difficult for a woman's own personal development and opportunities.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Lewis and his older sister Norena Warria, who escaped the massacre, had the unenviable task yesterday of identifying their younger siblings at Cairns hospital.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...163199495?nk=b5dd4f6dedc53cbbe82ae18c23e5e3c0

Having 9 children to at least 5 different men (bearing in mind the 5 men mentioned are the fathers of the 7 murdered children and there is quite a gap between them and the two older ones mentioned so there could actually be more than 5 fathers in total) is important and a sign of instability going back to a fairly young age.

Cairns child massacre, accused found god denounced technology

Neighbours, in conflicting accounts, told how the mum had found God and had taken to giving fiery sermons in the street.

Some said she warned locals not to use their mobile phones because they were the “work of the Devil”.

But others claimed the public housing home, which housed nine children, was often the scene of wild, loud, all-night parties.

On a front window, a handwritten sign reads: NO ALCOHOL, CIGARETTE, AND DRUNKEN PEOPLE ALLOWED IN THIS AREA”.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...163832647?sv=19c4a37040865173f93e6671a0b17003

It is sounding more and more like she was suffering from mental illness and had been for awhile, no idea why her children were still living with her if all of the neighbours reports are true, will be interested to see if she was being looked at by DoCS it sure sounds like she was, I don't see how she couldn't have been.

Also I'm fairly sure the other child that 'did a runner' after a fight earlier on in the night and returned at 3am was another niece, but news.com.au is running slowly and I can't link the article, but I will when I can.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Long article here from Daily Mail, the man who had been living with her as a husband had moved out just days before after arguing with her about her turning to god and strange religious behaviour, another father had wanted to take his children to Bamaga (Cape York) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-visited-memorial-outside-house-horrors.html

People will be travelling up to Cairns from all over Australia to support the family and grieve with them.

Details from friends / family here with conversations they had with the mother about raising so many children http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rdered-mother-remembered-community-shock.html

She was seen running through the street screaming at 3am, I wonder if this is just after the massacre took place?

Neighbours discuss the fact that the mother was getting her children to clear out their toys and possessions before she murdered them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...aw-mother-kids-clearing-home-day-tragedy.html

 

[fruity]

Lewis and his older sister Norena Warria, who escaped the massacre, had the unenviable task yesterday of identifying their younger siblings at Cairns hospital.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...163199495?nk=b5dd4f6dedc53cbbe82ae18c23e5e3c0
.

yes but the other link says she is a teenager, and Lewis is 20. One of them has to be wrong. To me she looks older than 20.

There are gruesome details in MSM this morning.

Police will allege some of the eight numbers suffered multiple stab wounds. It is alleged one child sustained at least 12 knife wounds to the front and 10 more on the back, according to pathology results.

http://www.news.com.au/national/que...counts-of-murder/story-fnj4alav-1227163895627

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Maybe Norena is younger than Lewis - the above courier mail link says she escaped the massacre, this following article says a teenager fought violently with Mersene and fled, escaping the massacre.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-child-killings/story-fnn8dlfs-1227163230745

Do you mean this one?

That was the niece who ran off during the night .. not an actual sibling.

Cristal and Jade said that one of the cousins who was staying overnight at 34 Murray likely escaped death after she “did a runner”, near midnight.

The cousin came back to the house at 3am. By then, Aunty Mali – who comes from the Torres Strait island of Darnley, or Erub -- was hauling furniture into the front yard. She wanted to go in but her aunt said the children were “sleeping”. She gave the cousin money for a taxi and told her to go home.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nei...d-dead-in-cairns/story-fncynjr2-1227163142200

 

[Theforeigner]

Police probe whether the drug ice played a role in Cairns murders: http://www.news.com.au/national/que...s-child-killings/story-fnj4alav-1227163409925

More new details and pictures.

Here is an article about the drug "ice":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...drug-psychotic-path-destruction-triggers.html

...the stage named 'tweaking' is when the most dangerous and psychotic behaviour occurs, according to Mr Sabin, who recalled a case where a father decapitated two of his children and stabbed a neighbour.

'The phase known as tweaking occurs when they've had long periods of wakefulness and the effect of the drug are wearing off but the physiological impacts are becoming dominant.
'So they can hear voices, they become psychotic and have paranoid episodes where they believe people are out to get them - they experience intense paranoia.'
Although the reason why the drug stimulates such bizarre mental conditions are not known, Mr Sabin confirmed that it is certain that the vast majority of ice users will experience paranoid and violent tendencies during the tweaking stage, which can last between three and five days.
'Where it becomes dangerous is that they actually exhibit superhuman strength. They can be throwing police officers left right and centre and won’t feel tazers or pepper spray,' he said.
'They can even be shot in the limbs and continue on like nothing has happened – they don’t feel pain.'

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Since the house is adjacent to a park, wouldn't it be fitting to tear the house down and extend the playground into that yard? https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-16...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sud-LN6M1NgK9nqxvVlud9w!2e0

 

[Mrs G Norris]

It has also been revealed that Ms Thaiday has suffered hardships in her life since she fell pregnant with her first child at the age of 14.

Shortly after she gave birth to her first child she moved into cramped public housing in Manoora and was shunted between houses as her family grew, The Australian reports.

Anna Jackson, who has known Ms Thaiday for more than 20 years, said that the mother-of-nine had been abused by a former partner, who allegedly bashed her on the head with a hammer.

Less than a week ago, one of the children's fathers moved out of the home they shared after the children’s uncle reported hearing fighting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cluding-calling-mobile-phones-work-Devil.html

 

[Ausgirl]

Hardly pointless when those FIVE MEN should have been involved in the care of their own children. We don't even hear mention of them being quoted in the articles, only the dad of the other girl who was killed, so YES it is perfectly appropriate to JUDGE the the fact five men played a role in this.

How do you KNOW they all weren't involved? Where'd you get that 'fact' from? Link plz?

And there's plenty of mention of the fathers, all five, and how devastated they are. All five attended the ***edit, thanks Mrs G*** memorials.

The father of the youngest ones, who I am assuming was the one mentioned in the DV incident above, in one report couldn't walk after being told the news - wonder if he does feel responsibility having walked out so recently/bashed her.

I agree Mrs G --- where was DOCS? No way were they unaware of this woman.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

How do you KNOW they all weren't involved? Where'd you get that 'fact' from? Link plz?

And there's plenty of mention of the fathers, all five, and how devastated they are. All five attended the funerals.

The father of the youngest ones, who I am assuming was the one mentioned in the DV incident above, in one report couldn't walk after being told the news - wonder if he does feel responsibility having walked out so recently/bashed her.

I agree Mrs G --- where was DOCS? No way were they unaware of this woman.

I think the father mentioned came after the DV incident because that was 10 years ago:

The claims come as reports in The Australian revealed the mother of nine children, by five different fathers, struggled to find a stable home after falling pregnant at 14 and was allegedly attacked with a hammer a decade ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cluding-calling-mobile-phones-work-Devil.html

Also funerals haven't happened yet, but yes all 5 fathers have attended police briefings etc as was mentioned in an earlier article.

Detective Inspector Bruno Asnicar says police have spoken to all five of the children's fathers.
"I don't think anybody would imagine any reaction other than absolute devastation, to be told that their child's dead. Of course that was the case," he told reporters.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-child-victims-identified-20141220-3mxhf.html

I have heard it may be months before funerals will take place, Islanders are usually buried on the island which has for them the strongest family tie, but there may be a wish for all of the children to be buried together which could take a little negotiation, and with so many families involved it could take a bit to organise, I'm hoping the QLD government steps in and helps with funeral costs.

 

[Ausgirl]

I think it is a cop out to say ' It's fine to have kids with different fathers.' Obviously it is fine, for a responsible, reliable mother to have children with more than one man.

BUT EIGHT KIDS BY FIVE MEN? No, sorry, that is irresponsible and I am not making a 'moral' judgment. I am making a logical and practical judgment. Eight children are very hard for one woman to care for, financially, physically, emotionally. Not enough time, nor resources to adequately care for each child, with a single mother, and no stable income.

When you have five different fathers the family unit is very disjointed and chaotic. That adds to the stress and creates family disfunction, imo.

I am sure there are lots of women who have done so admirably. But as a general rule, having 8 kids by 5 different boyfriends, is not going to lead to a sense of stability fand well-being for the children. jmo :cow:

ETA: correction, NINE kids by 5 men.

The bolded part is what I was saying, and not what was I hearing in the posts concerned. Perhaps I misread the general tone of those, sorry if I did.

I MOST CERTAINLY did NOT say one thing intended as a "cop out", whatever that means.

Clearly, this *particular* woman was having a very hard time coping with her kids, with her illness, with domestic violence, it was a huge mess by what reports are coming out now, with the facts.

 

[Ausgirl]

I think the father mentioned came after the DV incident because that was 10 years ago:

The claims come as reports in The Australian revealed the mother of nine children, by five different fathers, struggled to find a stable home after falling pregnant at 14 and was allegedly attacked with a hammer a decade ago.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...cluding-calling-mobile-phones-work-Devil.html

Also funerals haven't happened yet, but yes all 5 fathers have attended police briefings etc as was mentioned in an earlier article.

Detective Inspector Bruno Asnicar says police have spoken to all five of the children's fathers.
"I don't think anybody would imagine any reaction other than absolute devastation, to be told that their child's dead. Of course that was the case," he told reporters.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-child-victims-identified-20141220-3mxhf.html

I have heard it may be months before funerals will take place, Islanders are usually buried on the island which has for them the strongest family tie, but there may be a wish for all of the children to be buried together which could take a little negotiation, and with so many families involved it could take a bit to organise, I'm hoping the QLD government steps in and helps with funeral costs.

Ah, thanks for the clarification re DV.

And sorry, meant "memorials" not funerals.
\
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...ildren-killed-in-manoora-20141221-12blgz.html

There's a LOT of grandparents, aunties and uncles, with five different paternal families.. so many people feeling the loss of those kids.

I wonder how far back evidence of her mental illness actually goes, or whether it was a very recent thing, as reports have been implying.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Court hearing, lawyer appeared for her, attempt by lawyer to get case heard in mental health court, adjourned for now, and she is still waiting for an official mental health assessment. This is heading to her being found unfit for trial due to mental illness by the sounds of that. She likely was psychotic. MP says house should be demolished and a public memorial put in it's place. No members of the public at the hearing.

 

[fruity]

Do you mean this one?

That was the niece who ran off during the night .. not an actual sibling.

Cristal and Jade said that one of the cousins who was staying overnight at 34 Murray likely escaped death after she “did a runner”, near midnight.

The cousin came back to the house at 3am. By then, Aunty Mali – who comes from the Torres Strait island of Darnley, or Erub -- was hauling furniture into the front yard. She wanted to go in but her aunt said the children were “sleeping”. She gave the cousin money for a taxi and told her to go home.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nei...d-dead-in-cairns/story-fncynjr2-1227163142200

A different article said it was the daughter she fought with. Who knows. Typical Australian journalism with misinformation and incorrect reporting everywhere.

 

[fruity]

I'm glad she is having a mental health assessment, it really does sound like she was psychotic. I wonder if the police will elaborate on possible meth use. If it is a factor it will have a big impact on my opinion.

I know I am in the minority but I feel nothing but sympathy and sorrow for Andrea Yates - she was mentally ill, forced to have babies by a neglectful husband and was brainwashed by a fake preacher. It was clear that she was completely out of her mind. I am glad she didn't get the death penalty.

If it turns out this is a similar situation I will feel the same towards this mother. If drugs were involved it will be a different story.

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm glad she is having a mental health assessment, it really does sound like she was psychotic. I wonder if the police will elaborate on possible meth use. If it is a factor it will have a big impact on my opinion.

I know I am in the minority but I feel nothing but sympathy and sorrow for Andrea Yates - she was mentally ill, forced to have babies by a neglectful husband and was brainwashed by a fake preacher. It I'd clear that she was completely out of her mind. I am glad she didn't get the death penalty.

If it turns out this is a similar situation I will feel the same towards this mother. If drugs were involved it will be a different story.

I agree, re Yates. Mentally ill women are *really* easy to take advantage of, the ones in my experience anyway. I'm glad she didn't get the DP too.

Some people who are mentally ill self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. Of course, this just relieves the awful symptoms temporarily and pretty much makes things much worse.

And, sometimes mental illness is triggered by drugs.

Yep, Aussie journalism. Hard to keep up with the ever changing sea of "facts" they put out, in cases like this. I'll be interested to see what, in time, becomes solid fact regarding her illness/drug taking.

 

[fruity]

Claims the Cairns woman was high on the drug ice at the time of the killings have been dismissed by police, The Australian reports.


Read more at http://preview.9news.com.au/nationa...er-had-troubled-dark-past#u4qH5FxOxuseigkj.99

 

[fruity]

I agree, re Yates. Mentally ill women are *really* easy to take advantage of, the ones in my experience anyway. I'm glad she didn't get the DP too.

Some people who are mentally ill self-medicate with drugs and alcohol. Of course, this just relieves the awful symptoms temporarily and pretty much makes things much worse.

Of course, sometimes mental illness is triggered by drugs.

Yep, Aussie journalism. Hard to keep up with the ever changing sea of "facts" they put out, in cases like this. I'll be interested to see what, in time, becomes solid fact regarding her illness/drug taking.

yeah that's where it vs complicated - if mental illness is compounded or caused by drug/alcohol abuse

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I totally agree with you about Andrea Yates and don't understand people who just want to see her punished when clearly she was ill. It is likely the same kind of scenario in this case. It seems like many were aware that she had gone a bit nuts, but didn't know the signs that she was becoming psychotic and what implications that might have or what to do about it.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Claims the Cairns woman was high on the drug ice at the time of the killings have been dismissed by police, The Australian reports.

Read more at http://preview.9news.com.au/nationa...er-had-troubled-dark-past#u4qH5FxOxuseigkj.99

Wow .. good on the journalists for reporting those claims, because that story will stick now regardless of the retraction.