Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #7

[kiligily]

So there was some previous discussion around a 'white van' being seen in the area of Lock Rd (where Karen's remains were found) by some Mount Macedon residents.
The old mental map reminded me of the street view I looked up for VR's business 'Executive Catering' (perhaps with a parent company 'Presidential Catering'

Either way there's a couple points here.
1. There's a white van parked at his business as per the street view image.
2. Vasko's business(s)? look to make a decent amount annually, perhaps this confirms rumors of Borce's borrowings from family members.

What I was hoping for was a look at some packaging near the dumpsters, if only we could look in those bins. Maybe some of it would match what we see in Amalgams's post.

 

[Coldpizza]

Lay off of BR's brother folks. Last I checked he's not been deemed a suspect.

Rules Etiquette & Information


VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

 

[kiligily]

Apologies Coldpizza and forum members. Understood. Didn't mean to step over any boundaries there.

 

[Coldpizza]

Apologies Coldpizza and forum members. Understood. Didn't mean to step over any boundaries there.

You weren't the only one.

 

[PingTheRouter]

You weren't the only one.

every time you post your username name makes me feel hungry

 

[Puggle]

Certainly there is no media mention of a further covering layer, but that image is a frame from the videos on this page http://www.9news.com.au/National/2017/02/20/14/39/Womans-decomposed-body-found-at-Victorian-park.

It it is easy to find what seems to be overhead drone footage taken at the burial site, depicting what the frame grab I attached shows. The video is about the burial site & also shows footage of it shot from ground level, with a covering of smaller logs inbetween the two big logs, as posted by TGY in the previous thread. It also seems pretty clear that the rubbish in the frame is between two logs, with something that looks very much like a foot showing.

Perhaps first responders had removed the layer of logs, to confirm beyond a doubt the presence of human remains (it seems that this would be very difficult in the footage that shows a layer of smaller logs still in situ) and then stopped to wait for the forensic team once they saw the foot?

If you consider the image in the context of the video from which it is captured, I think it's fairly likely that it is in fact a birdseye view of the burial. My thoughts beyond that, including the possible presence of a protruding foot (which certainly isn't skeletonised yet) are obviously just speculative.

Thanks for that ...... I hadn't actually seen this video...

If this debris was in fact covering her remains ..... well thats a whole lot of extra evidence that could well lead back to whomever placed her there..... so not really a smart move.

 

[KG1]

blob:http%3A//www.9news.com.au/7b3f74f0-4c30-424b-9df8-124767917e67

 

[JC40]

One of her husbands first statements

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]"[/FONT]We [FONT=arial, sans-serif]had a [/FONT]ahh b ahh bit of ahh an argument ahh in regards to, um, the store figures, and um, how she was going to you know improve them"

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Note here the plural "we" in regards to the "argument" about "store figures" and "how she (singular) was going to you know improve them" Not that they (plural) were going to improve them. Was this "argument" more one sided, him more forceful. [/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Note the minimising of the "argument, "a bit". Note too the stuttering when it comes to the "argument" making it sensitive. If he is not a stutterer it is all the more sensitive.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]"[/FONT]and, she had had a bad day the day before at the store",

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Do they work together at "the store"? what constitutes a "bad day"[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Is it financial?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Did she argue with someone?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Was a delivery late?[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]etc.. What caused her to have a "bad day" according to her husband.[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, sans-serif]Would one call this "subtle disparagement" Does he blame her for "store figures" and it's why he says it's only her who is "going to improve them" A guilty person will often find a way to justify their behaviour by blaming the victim, but in a subtle, manner. If it is the case that the husband is involved in her disappearance and possible homicide, will he blame t his wife, for the "store figures" In other words, it (whatever it maybe) is all her fault, i wouldn't have reacted like that if she had not done xyz.[/FONT]

"um, and on the Wednesday morning, um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs and just went out through the garage, ahh, she might have just walked down the street or just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here."

"Um" "Ahh" and derivatives of are often used to pause and give oneself time to think. This comes about as we see above, at the mention of going up the stairs and coming down, making this part of his statement sensitive.

"um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs"

Note, he is yet to use her name. Distancing language

The word "Just" is often used to compare, minimise (downwards) and time, "i just received a call ten minutes ago. We know it is not about time as he is talking after the event. So why in this part of his statement does he minimise. Something more went on than going up and downstairs.

"um, she just went upstairs, um, and then came downstairs"

"and then"

Note here we have a skip in time (temporal lacunai) between going up and coming downstairs. What occurred while she was upstairs "and then" came down?"

He doesn't tell us why she went up and downstairs? Making it needles information but important in the wider scheme of things. Why tell us this.? It is on his mind. Why?

"she might have just walked down the street or just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here."

Here he shows doubt with the qualifier "might" giving others to think differently and for him to, later, change his statement.

Again we see minimising ("Just") when she "walked" (body posture noted. When body posture enters a statement, it often shows an increase in tension) down the street"

My boss, Tony said xyt
My boss (dropping his name, incomplete social introduction) said xyz.
The boss (dropping the personal "my")
The boss told me (told being more forceful)
The boss "stood" (body posture) and told me xyz.

Note the increase in tension becoming stronger.

"or just to clear her head"

Minimising. Why does she want to clear her head.?

"because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here."

Note he gives us the reason why ("because") why she "might" have "just walked down the street" When some has a need to explain (because, to...) without being asked they are anticipating being asked why she "might have just walked down the street"

"just to clear her head because that was the last thing she said to me, um, I’m gonna to go and clear my head, um, can’t do it here."

Note the repetition to clear here head making it sensitive. He introduces her "head" will she have injuries to her head ?

"that was the last thing she said to me"

Here he wants the communication to stop.

The time between going "upstairs" and "coming down" is where i would focus my attention first.

Did they have an argument and something happened between going up and downstairs?

 

[JC40]

http://www.news.com.au/national/vic...s/news-story/2bbe3c1ab602e2e9948986048d337aad


Bizarre behaviour of Karen Ristevski’s family members

THE behaviour of some of Karen Ristevski’s closest family members has raised eyebrows from the moment she went missing in June last year to the discovery of her badly decomposed body in Victorian bushland on Monday.
From her brother-in-law Vasko to her stepson Anthony, Ms Ristevski’s relatives have placed themselves under public scrutiny with their bizarre, attention-seeking antics.
Ms Ristevski’s body was found by a passer-by wedged between two logs off a dirt track near Loch Rd at Mount Macedon about 12.30pm on Monday.
On Tuesday it was revealed that a witness told police he saw a man with a shovel at the spot where Ms Ristevski’s remains were found.
The witness had quipped: “What did you do to the body?” but was met with an expressionless face from the man, whose description has not been released.
The date of this alleged encounter has not been publicly disclosed but at least one local resident, Ian Flannery, has told reporters he noticed a rancid smell in the area around August last year.
Ms Ristevski’s family members have always denied any involvement in her disappearance.
In December, police searched properties at Toolern Vale, Gisborne and Diggers Rest — just 30km from Mount Macedon — after tracking pings from both Ms Ristevski and husband Borce’s mobile phones on the day she vanished.
Ms Ristevski, 47, was last seen at her $1.1 million property on Oakley Rd in Avondale Heights on June 29 last year, according to her husband.
Police have not named Mr Ristevski as a suspect in his wife’s murder but his lawyer today conceded he was the prime suspect in her murder.
Mr Ristevski reportedly told family members he believed his wife may have been snatched by a stranger.
Mr Ristevski also dismissed claims by his estranged son Anthony Rickard, a confessed ice user, that he had overheard Mrs Ristevski saying she would leave Borce when their daughter Sarah turned 21.
Mr Rickard, approached Channel 9’s A Current Affair in August in an attempt to sell an unsubstantiated story. He had also made the claim on social media in posts that were later removed.


<modsnip>

 

[Westside_Sleuth]

Certainly there is no media mention of a further covering layer, but that image is a frame from the videos on this page http://www.9news.com.au/National/2017/02/20/14/39/Womans-decomposed-body-found-at-Victorian-park.

It it is easy to find what seems to be overhead drone footage taken at the burial site, depicting what the frame grab I attached shows. The video is about the burial site & also shows footage of it shot from ground level, with a covering of smaller logs inbetween the two big logs, as posted by TGY in the previous thread. It also seems pretty clear that the rubbish in the frame is between two logs, with something that looks very much like a foot showing.

Perhaps first responders had removed the layer of logs, to confirm beyond a doubt the presence of human remains (it seems that this would be very difficult in the footage that shows a layer of smaller logs still in situ) and then stopped to wait for the forensic team once they saw the foot?

If you consider the image in the context of the video from which it is captured, I think it's fairly likely that it is in fact a birdseye view of the burial. My thoughts beyond that, including the possible presence of a protruding foot (which certainly isn't skeletonised yet) are obviously just speculative.

Am I the only one who cannot see a foot at all?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Amee]

[h=1]Karen Ristevski body: The 'shovel man' story that's got Mount Macedon talking[/h]
A Gisborne man had just finished dropping his friends at their houses in the outskirts of Mount Macedon, following a party in December last year that didn't finish until well after dark.
He was attempting to turn his car around at the intersection of a narrow dirt road when his headlights illuminated a man walking out of the bush.


He was carrying a shovel.
Since then the story of "the shovel man" has been doing the rounds at dinner parties in Mount Macedon.

What happened that night is said to have rattled the motorist so much he would later report it to local police.


The encounter was apparently so startling, it prompted the driver to wind up the window and reverse away.
"One of the things that was really strange was that there was a house nearby. He expected him to walk back to the house, but he didn't. He just turned and walked away back into the bush.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/k...ot-mount-macedon-talking-20170222-guizdq.html

 

[LexR]

Am I the only one who cannot see a foot at all?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, I can't either :eye: :eye:

 

[Westside_Sleuth]

[h=1]Karen Ristevski body: The 'shovel man' story that's got Mount Macedon talking[/h]
A Gisborne man had just finished dropping his friends at their houses in the outskirts of Mount Macedon, following a party in December last year that didn't finish until well after dark.
He was attempting to turn his car around at the intersection of a narrow dirt road when his headlights illuminated a man walking out of the bush.


He was carrying a shovel.
Since then the story of "the shovel man" has been doing the rounds at dinner parties in Mount Macedon.

What happened that night is said to have rattled the motorist so much he would later report it to local police.


The encounter was apparently so startling, it prompted the driver to wind up the window and reverse away.
"One of the things that was really strange was that there was a house nearby. He expected him to walk back to the house, but he didn't. He just turned and walked away back into the bush.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/k...ot-mount-macedon-talking-20170222-guizdq.html

"The shovel man"... soooo creepy!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Westside_Sleuth]

From shovel man article above.

"Before he was ushered away from media, the middle-aged man wearing business clothes said that the person he had seen carrying the shovel had "expressionless" eyes." Like these??

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Algorithm]

locals have said the area smelled foul for several months

The weather would have helped to expose the body over time. I recall that Melbourne has had 2-3 major weather events with wind and rain since KR went missing and then summer to dry everything out making debris easier to get moved.

 

[Phil23]

In the bush there is always dead animals. I've come across dead cows, multiple chooks and even a pile of greyhounds.
You usually smell and then keep a wide birth. Never would you think it was a body. Karen was well concealed.

Particularly correct in regional areas. We often see dead wildlife beside the road particularly in farming based areas.
Roos, pigs mainly, feasting on farmers crops & becoming road kill.

Vision is usually accompanied by odour, even in a passing vehicle.

When on foot in these areas, I'd personally not investigate a scent, but simply dismiss it as non visible wildlife.

 

[Puggle]

Is there a copy of the 6pm Channel 7 news available online? The scant information offered regarding Karen's autopsy was right at the beginning of their broadcast. I'm fairly sure the way they worded things made it clear that there were no signs of physical violence detected at the autopsy.

Whilst it it is true that a body can be little more than bones, teeth & hair after 8 months, it does very much depend on the conditions. It is certainly possible that Karen's remains, whilst substantially decomposed, still had fleshy tissue present.

The possibly of lime being used as part of her burial has been speculated upon, and if true, that could slow down the decompositon of Karen's remains significantly. It is a common misconception that lime hastens the decay of a body. The opposite is in fact the case, as the UK Home Office found out the hard way via the burials of executed criminals.

The original burial procedure for hanged criminals entailed burial in a coffin with large holes drilled into the sides, along with the use of lime, both to hasten decay. The lime was found to inhibit decomposition & so it's use was discontinued.

I posted the attached photograph in the previous thread. It comes from 9news footage and seems to be an overhead view of the burial site, looking down upon the two logs. Inbetween the logs is a layer of what appears to be commercial packaging, possibly lime bags, between the two logs. Perhaps this layer of covering was underneath the layer of smaller logs shown elsewhere in the same 9 news footage & as posted here by TGY. There is what could be a human foot & toes visible in the image below.

Regardless of whether there is a foot visible or not, if the image does indeed show a layer of stuff covering Karen's remains, then they should prove to be of strong evidentiary value.

Had another good look this morning......

Im not seeing bags at all...

I see two large commercial grade containers both the same (with labels still attached) one entirely entact and visible top right hand corner...the other directly below in somewhat to the left ..... possibly 30 - 40 litre containers

Then under them .... another large container with one if those perferated green twist lids...

Who ever has placed them there ..... has good as cooked their DUCK ...

Bar codes will lead back to the supplier.

 

[Puggle]

Re my above post....

Does anyone know how to post Amalgams screen **** jpg from post number 247.

This is a pic of the site taken by a drone .... with debris shoved into the fork of the two tree trunks .....

 

[emirates1957]

and they are practically indestructible..... burning may do it, but an awful lot just wont do it. ... I still expect Allisons phone to be found one day.. close by the house, because they did manage to get a ping on it in close proximity.

Ditto Karen's phone.. no reason to give up on that one , either. The sim card from Jill Meagher's was a lucky find ( in the washing machine of the idiotic partner of Bailey) ...nothing is ever lost, just delayed in finding.

I want to hear a bit about Anthony and Vasco's phones... .

I'm currently reading "Conviction The Untold Story of Putting Jodie Arias Behind Bars". She chucked the camera in the washing machine thinking she had destroyed images.......nup they were retrieved putting her at the scene of the murder.

 

[sayswho]

Re my above post....

Does anyone know how to post Amalgams screen **** jpg from post number 247.

This is a pic of the site taken by a drone .... with debris shoved into the fork of the two tree trunks .....

Here you go