Australia - Karmein Chan, 13, Templestowe, Vic, 13 April 1991

Discussion in 'Cold Cases' started by Pettibon Junction, Sep 23, 2015.

  1. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Member

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    I was reading an article on alleged pedophile/child pornographer and suspected murderer Peter Scully this morning and was reminded of the unsolved murder of Karmein Chan, 13, who was abducted from her parents' Templestowe home in 1991. Her body was found a year later in in Edgars Creek, Thomastown.

    It has long been believed that Chan was a victim of Mr. Cruel, a child rapist active in and around Melbourne during the early 90s. At least one of Mr. Cruel's surviving victims reported that her assailant filmed his crimes.

    Before being jailed in the Phillippines, Peter Scully lived in Melbourne. In fact, he seems an eerie fit for many of the points on the police profile of Mr. Cruel. Does anyone know if he has been investigated with regard to any of these crimes?

    Links:

    http://www.theage.com.au/news/natio...tims-say-police/2006/04/07/1143916721667.html
    http://www.smh.com.au//breaking-new...-police-hunt-for-mr-cruel-20101214-18vna.html
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lly-pleads-not-guilty-to-child-in-philippines
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-...-with-murder-11yo-girl-in-philippines/6287794
     
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  3. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Member

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    Bumping.

    The child porn community in Australia can't be that huge. If Scully isn't Mr. Cruel, there's still a good chance the two have communicated in some fashion.
     
  4. Brightbird

    Brightbird New Member

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    I am sure police would have looked for any links or rule outs for Scully being Mr Cruel, but I doubt we'd find out unless police wanted more info from the public. My feeling is that Scully is too depraved, even for Mr Cruel. And Mr Cruel was obsessively meticulous, which I don't think fits Scully. But perhaps he changed over 20 odd years.
     
  5. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Member

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    Perhaps, but Scully's doing time in the Philippines and I've seen no indication that Australian police have been allowed to question him, let alone review the evidence. It's hard to imagine that a guy like Cruel would just stop, and part of his whole makeup was creating and consuming child pornography. With the internet and digital footprints being what they are, this case just feels solvable.
     
  6. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Member

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    You're probably right. I don't think Cruel ever intended to kill Karmein Chan and that he did means something must have gone drastically wrong and he lost control of the situation. All of his surviving victims told of playing a sick game of "house" with their captor, which would make Mr. Cruel more of a classic pedophile than a sadist. However, in sexual offenders, acts of voyeurism and burglary often escalate into violence so nothing's really off the table in terms of what this guy might have been capable of.
     
  7. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Member

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  8. OkieGranny

    OkieGranny <b><span style="color:#660033;">WS Forum Coordinat Forum Coordinators

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  9. Puggle

    Puggle New Member

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  10. Puggle

    Puggle New Member

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    The number one suspect in the Mr Cruel case is a man called Brian Elker.
     
  11. Puggle

    Puggle New Member

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  12. Jigoku Dayu

    Jigoku Dayu New Member

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  13. Limaes

    Limaes New Member

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    Thanks for the link, I haven't seen that one before. I think Karmein was more than he bargained for and she put up a huge fight compared to the other girls so he killed her. [emoji17]
     
  14. JWSleuth

    JWSleuth Member

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    Bumping this thread.. always think about this girl and other victims of Mr cruel
     
  15. JWSleuth

    JWSleuth Member

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  16. JWSleuth

    JWSleuth Member

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    [TABLE="class: infobox biography vcard, width: 100%"]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    1987-1990 3
    attacks[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Known for[/TH]
    [TD]Planning
    Absence of forensic evidence
    Protecting identity[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Criminal charge[/TH]
    [TD]Home invasion, abduction, rape, and murder[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="colspan: 2, align: center"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Reward amount
    [/TH]
    [TD]$1,200,000[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Capture status
    [/TH]
    [TD]Not captured[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Wanted since[/TH]
    [TD]1987[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH="colspan: 2, align: center"]Killings[/TH]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Victims[/TH]
    [TD]1 suspected abduction and murder[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Date[/TH]
    [TD]1991[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TH]Weapon[/TH]
    [TD]Firearm and knife[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Cruel
     
  17. Dakota70

    Dakota70 New Member

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    From Puggie post: "The number one suspect in the Mr Cruel case is a man called Brian Elker"

    Hi Puggie, thanks for this re BE. I hadn't heard of this suspect but found this information & link subsequently, that others might find interesting.

    •Melbourne - A university lecturer who admitted to raping a girl student, had a sexual fantasy about tying up women and raping them, the County Court was told yesterday. Brian Alia Elkner, 33, of Hampton, a Melbourne suburb, was sentenced to a total of 10 years' jail on charges involving attacks on girls and young women in their homes between April, 1972, and last May. Elkner, a senior lecturer in Melbourne University arts faculty, had pleaded guilty to one charge of rape, one charge of assault with intent to rape, three counts of indecent assault and one of common assault. Mr. John Phillips, defending, told the court all the victims were tied up and several were also gagged, in each incident, a knife was involved. A psychiatrist. Dr. L. Marinovich, who saw Elkner after he had been arrested, told the court Elkner had described a fantasy life toward sexual activity. 'He gets sexual arousal at the prospect of tying a girl up and raping her', he said. 'He has had this sexual fantasy about tying up women and raping them since his late teens, but only in the last couple of years has he carried them out'."'*1 '

    Source: http://crg.aic.gov.au/reports/11a-77.pdf
    BBM
     
  18. Exact

    Exact New Member

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    High time we catch this person. He could be a neighbour, collegue and deserves punishment. The bag that was used in the Lower Plenty abduction, does he still use those I wonder? I just saw a man in his 60s at with one of these, although it was beige or sand colour. He got off a tram, black pants freshly presented. Not overweight.

    Fibres? Any chance of using new fibre technology to get evidence?

    Not sure why he can't be connected to the Bung Siriboon abduction, he was wearing a surgical mask and was in his 60s.

    The way to rile him would be to mention the Pell investigation as MC says he was molested as a child.
     
  19. hattie

    hattie New Member

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    Hey guys I've been looking into this case a little bit today. Mainly because I grew up around the area where the girls were abducted from. I used to frequent the Chan's family restaurant when I was a child with my mother and remember the case vividly from my childhood. It still haunts me it has never been solved. Does anyone have any more current theories or know any other names of suspects apart from this Brian Elker man? His profile is pretty sketchy but it strikes me as odd the police could never peg him to it even with their 3 mil spent investigating. It still haunts me today because I remember Karmein's mother so well, she was a very kind woman and would always play with the customers and give me free desserts when I was a child. I would love to see justice for this family.
     
  20. Exact

    Exact New Member

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    Me too, and to think she was horribly bashed for money years down the track.

    He'll be got one day, just like CSK.

    Leads? It's all up to the public. How many homes in Melbourne had triple fronted shower screens back then? Not many. The home may have been demolished by now, agents might remember. The areas are so tucked away it is a pattern there. The Surrey Hills one is out of left field though, and sounds like he wanted ransom. Could he be related to Jonbenet's case? He could be retiring about now from a long career, this community minded person. They say he has probably won awards and accolades. The cars he used, stolen car records from back then could provide leads.

    I'd like more information from police, like what Classical records were stolen? If someone saw them, that could be a link.

    How about the ring stolen from the house at Lower Plenty? Diamond solitaire, four claws, yellow gold with number 4132 inscribed on the inside. You never know. The ring could have been hawked anywhere. What exactly did he say and do to the girls that made them say it was like he was washing a baby?
     
  21. Pettibon Junction

    Pettibon Junction Member

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    I’ve been thinking a lot about Mr Cruel and I think maybe he didn’t mean to kill Karmein.

    His earlier activities were based on a very specific fantasy of “playing house” so he’d probably be one of those classical pedophiles who believe sincerely that sexual relationships between adults and children are not only consensual but mutually beneficial. Karmein must have fought back or said/done something to shatter this illusion and when Cruel lost control, he killed her and probably got rid of all of his trophies in a spell of blind panic.

    Assuming he’s still local, a big media push to remind him of Karmein (billboards, ads, calls for info) could make her murder “real” to him again and lead to a confession.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

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