Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[Mjjj14]

Mostly, I find it very interesting how people are up in arms about how many times Fernand is mentioned in the podcast and are consistently finding ways to absolve him. Yet the same amount of uproar is not extended to all the times Scientology, Hermes Far Eastern Shining, the pilot, the dentist, and Luke Glover have been mentioned. What's with that?

For me it just comes down to what is the most simplistic explanation, the police say nobody with that name came in or out, at this point there’s nothing to suggest that he has any other con artist scams happening and his ex wife says he hasn’t been to Australia (usually ex’s jump at the chance to badmouth former spouses). He could’ve been on a fake passport but that takes him out of Luxembourg for a lengthy period (from time ad was placed until Marion disappeared), one would assume you’d try to limit how many times you fly in and out of one country with false documents and he also had his patent thing happening in Luxembourg around the same time. There’s definitely doubt in my mind that he had anything to do with it. I wouldn’t go out of my way to vehemently defend him, but I am certainly not convinced by any means he had anything to do with it because someone impersonating him is an easier explanation for me personally.

I think Scientology and HFES have a bad rap already so people don’t jump to defend them.

LG has several people who have accused him of wrongdoing, not just the podcast.

The pilot hasn’t been named by the Podcast and I also thought the dentist was nameless too but I saw someone mention a name in this thread so I’m unsure on that now.

Just my personal reasonings.

Edit:spelling

 

[Mjjj14]

Deleted accidental double post

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I agree with you that someone else impersonating him is very plausible. I do think there were some indications in Mr Remakels behaviour that may have appeared cagey or odd..but I think , if I had investigative journalists at my door claiming someone by my name and area was thought to be linked to a missing persons case..and I knew I had nothing to do with it- I would be on the defensive. I think it is just human nature.

I also think though, that they do NEED Mr Remakels cooperation, big time. He was a high profile figure. I think whoever is involved is very well from Luxembourg and would have needed to know enough about Luxembourg, Mr Remakel and the culture in general in order to dupe Marion. That is why I think if he was approached by not just questioning him, but to get him also to cooperate by saying, look Mr Remakel- we hear you are saying you have no involvement in this, but someone who is using your name and location very likely is...and we want to catch them ..would be best way for him to sit up and giving them all he can. They need to question not just him and his background, which is where they will get any defensiveness- but also who he knows, anyone with an axe to grind, any potential obsessed fans he knew of or had seen him play, or even an ex teamplayer or someone he had played against, jealous of his skill and popularity. They really could have so many possibilities, due to his age and length of career.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I'm trying to understand... the easiest explanation is that the culprit is most likely NOT the actual Fernand, but someone PRETENDING to be Fernand.

So, this imposter doesn't marry his victims with his fake name in the country he's faking in. Instead, he convinces them to change their names to his fake name, then flies them to Luxembourg where the real Fernand lives, then flies them back to Australia again. He himself uses a second fake name to fly with.

Meanwhile, the real Fernand has no inkling that something weird has been going on with his identity for the past 26 years. No one's ever confused the two. Or noticed there are two. Even though they are both businessmen with ties to property investment. Even when they're in the same country of just half a million people.

Other identity fraudsters might complete the entire scam with just one fake name, then discard it and move on to the next identity. Most would completely avoid the location where the original lives. Many might even choose deceased people to steal IDs from or create completely fake aliases. But not this guy. And it's the most likely scenario?

 

[Meligator]

It’s possible for F Remakel to be involved without him ever having been in Australia. Maybe he and Marion corresponded by letter or phone.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Lol. I just thought of one way he is travelling around the world. I have a potential alias. However, it's evident my theories and logic are unpopular and unappreciated. I'm not sure if it's that people don't want answers or just don't want my answers. No doubt the super sleuths and podcast have already thought of it. Night...

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Lol. I just thought of one way he is travelling around the world. I have a potential alias. However, it's evident my theories and logic are unpopular and unappreciated. I'm not sure if it's that people don't want answers or just don't want my answers. No doubt the super sleuths and podcast have already thought of it. Night...

No. It could be the actual Remakel, but it could also be someone impersonating him. The jury has not even met on this one, let alone out. Nobody is saying he actually went with Marion into Luxembourg (he might have). Just because it says that was the plan on Florabellas' passport, doesn't mean she had already been there or even married him.

Nobody said it was the MOST likely. Someone said it would be most simplistic. The point is NO possibility should be dismissed however crazy it might seem and stolen identity is a crime that goes on, as we all know. We have said Fernand could be involved and should be thoroughly investigated by police. But also someone impersonating him, should also be looked into. We are not here to deliver a verdict, but to explore all the possibilities fully and many will have incling to lean one way or the other in what their hunch is. Either way, we all want the same outcome- to find out what happened to Marion and whoever is involved where a crime has been committed, for that person to be brought to justice. How we help Sally get there is by exhausting all avenues of possibility and passing on anything we may stumble upon that could prove useful to Sally or the police.

 

[Housemartyn]

I also wondered how Sally knew Ferdinand wasn't with his partner for as long as he said he was. I don't think he has anything to do with Marion's life at all. There's absolutely no evidence that he did...

I think Marion came back to Australia because she was very ill. She drew her money out and gave it to a worthy cause.
Waiting for the inquest is hard! The authorities definitely have some concrete information. ...

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I also wondered how Sally knew Ferdinand wasn't with his partner for as long as he said he was. I don't think he has anything to do with Marion's life at all. There's absolutely no evidence that he did...

I think Marion came back to Australia because she was very ill. She drew her money out and gave it to a worthy cause.
Waiting for the inquest is hard! The authorities definitely have some concrete information. ...

Another theory and completely possible. I wonder..could there have been no Fernand involved, no Remakel involved or man even calling himself Remakel. (I know this is unlikely) - but COULD this have been purely a case of- Marion was fed up, wanted a new life. Wanted to live in Europe. As hard as it was, wanted to just be away and not come back. She thought of Luxembourg. She knew a man who had a Luxembourg surname (probably the one from Trendwest and who had just happened to have that ad in a newspaper from 1994)..she knew him as an accquaintance. Maybe she had met him in 1994 through the ad. Either way, things have moved on..she recalls the surname. She uses it as her own to change her name...if I want a new life, I may aswell have a new European name...now what was that guys surname? Remakel! She may not have even realised how rare it actually was. She would never dream it would end up involving people with the surname when it came to looking for her (she would not have known her name change could have been found out!). She realises in England, there is a problem accessing her money- she must get back to Australia, but not be seen..she was meant to be gone for good and it would invite too many questions. Maybe she gets a friend to do the transactions? Or maybe she goes to an ATM at night? Maybe something unrelated happened to her when she returned. Maybe during such large withdrawals she was mugged by someone unknown at night- Sally said she had no idea how her mother withdrew the money ..does she know the time of day? Someone spotted her at Colonial though and spoke to her? Allegedly. That whole thing is so up in the air..I know this is unlikely and I definitely don't mean any offense- but she could also have met with foul play while withdrawing her money herself given the sums were so large. It all just sort of stopped in 1997 and that was it...the Medicare card in Grafton- was that for these polyps? Was it definitely Marion who recieved treatment? How easy would it be to committ health insurance fraud , are there photos on the cards?

 

[Housemartyn]

Maybe Sally should rest up. She seems to need it. Wait for the inquest, take the evidence and go from there. Otherwise it seems to me that it's just running around like a headless chicken.

 

[Mjjj14]

I'm trying to understand... the easiest explanation is that the culprit is most likely NOT the actual Fernand, but someone PRETENDING to be Fernand.

So, this imposter doesn't marry his victims with his fake name in the country he's faking in. Instead, he convinces them to change their names to his fake name, then flies them to Luxembourg where the real Fernand lives, then flies them back to Australia again. He himself uses a second fake name to fly with.

Meanwhile, the real Fernand has no inkling that something weird has been going on with his identity for the past 26 years. No one's ever confused the two. Or noticed there are two. Even though they are both businessmen with ties to property investment. Even when they're in the same country of just half a million people.

Other identity fraudsters might complete the entire scam with just one fake name, then discard it and move on to the next identity. Most would completely avoid the location where the original lives. Many might even choose deceased people to steal IDs from or create completely fake aliases. But not this guy. And it's the most likely scenario?

You asked why people are so quick to defend FR and I outlined my reasons for why I think people defend him and my opinion on why I do not think he’s the most likely candidate. But they are just that, my opinions and my reasonings. It’s an unsolved case and there are many theories, you are as entitled to your theories as I am to mine.

In my experiences sometimes the most simple explanation is the most plausible, yes.

I actually don’t think Marion got married at all. The reason why I think this is because she would’ve had to likely file an intention to marry or the equivalent in Luxembourg/wherever she married in advance AND if I believe my conman theory I mentioned in this thread, he would need supporting documentation of his name to file for the marriage licence etc and if documents were missing or not in the correct name, Marion may have smelled a rat and become suspicious before he obtained the cash. I think that instead, she’s been convinced to change her name and maybe a pseudo marriage has taken place, maybe a ceremony with no legals. These are just wild hunches.

As you say, many people perpetrating scams have several identities. It is possible that there was nothing done with the FR identity (if it was assumed at all) that would alert authorities to any wrongdoing or alert the real FR to the fact his name was being used at all.

I don’t think your theories are unpopular or unwanted. I think this is a forum that encourages discussion of all theories. I just answered your question with my subjective opinions on FRs involvement.

I’m genuinely interested to hear how he could be travelling around the world.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Another theory and completely possible. I wonder..could there have been no Fernand involved, no Remakel involved or man even calling himself Remakel. (I know this is unlikely) - but COULD this have been purely a case of- Marion was fed up, wanted a new life. Wanted to live in Europe. As hard as it was, wanted to just be away and not come back. She thought of Luxembourg. She knew a man who had a Luxembourg surname (probably the one from Trendwest and who had just happened to have that ad in a newspaper from 1994)..she knew him as an accquaintance. Maybe she had met him in 1994 through the ad. Either way, things have moved on..she recalls the surname. She uses it as her own to change her name...if I want a new life, I may aswell have a new European name...now what was that guys surname? Remakel! She may not have even realised how rare it actually was. She would never dream it would end up involving people with the surname when it came to looking for her (she would not have known her name change could have been found out!). She realises in England, there is a problem accessing her money- she must get back to Australia, but not be seen..she was meant to be gone for good and it would invite too many questions. Maybe she gets a friend to do the transactions? Or maybe she goes to an ATM at night? Maybe something unrelated happened to her when she returned. Maybe during such large withdrawals she was mugged by someone unknown at night- Sally said she had no idea how her mother withdrew the money ..does she know the time of day? Someone spotted her at Colonial though and spoke to her? Allegedly. That whole thing is so up in the air..I know this is unlikely and I definitely don't mean any offense- but she could also have met with foul play while withdrawing her money herself given the sums were so large. It all just sort of stopped in 1997 and that was it...the Medicare card in Grafton- was that for these polyps? Was it definitely Marion who recieved treatment? How easy would it be to committ health insurance fraud , are there photos on the cards?

I agree we could well be going down a rabbit hole with the Remakel name it could just be a coincidence.

you cant take $5K at a time out of a money machine ( I think the limit in 1997 was $500 per day) and she keep on going back each day until the account was completely depleted … if I recall correctly. I am quite sure the bank would have thoroughly investigate the removal of the money once the police alerted them via the phone call that there was a suspicion that the person removing the money was not Marion, the last thing they want is for the real Marion to show up and ask where her money was the bank would have been liable so I do believe it was Marion and that they did check. At this point Marion would have known her family knew she was back … was this a catalyst for a change in plan ??

Remakel at Tradewest did not work there until sometime between 2000 - 2014, it wasn't formed as a business until 2000, but that doesn't mean he wasn't around the area prior to working there I guess, but I feel like this information could easily be confirmed by their "sleuths" as even on LinkedIn there are numerous people whom worked at the gold coast branch of Tradewest in that time frame, if she remembers him/her then surely others do. Strangely on Facebook Sally's theory on this person is someone impersonating her mother ? that wasn't what I was thinking at all, I though a male using the Remakel name ? so I wonder what information she has for her to think this ?

 

[KiwiNZ]

Random thoughts ….

There was some discussion on how the bank tracked her down to confirm it was her, I think she probably had a credit card, they likely tracked her down via her CC if she was staying at a motel / hotel in Byron Bay.

I wonder where her credit card statements where going, nothing was online then.

Wonder if anyone ran a credit report on the Barter or Remakel name, if she didn't pay off the card before she vanished for good.

And how do you rent a car if your passport does not match your drivers license or your credit cards ? for oversea drivers license you have give your passport as well, that way if you get a fine they can stop you at customs when you depart to make sure you pay it. Happened to me lol

 

[Meligator]

Was looking into financial rules/regulations (posting link below) and it appears that (up until May 1997), international money transfers exceeding $5000 needed to be reported by to government regulatory agency. Threshold was changed to $10000 in May 1997, but if that change was not yet know to Marion (or whoever was accessing her bank account), then perhaps the $5000 was being removed from her account and then transferred overseas (someplace) as a cash transfer. This would avoid the transfer coming out of Marions account directly, and also avoid the creation of bank reports.



https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/com...action_reports_and_analysis_centre/sub022.pdf

 

[KiwiNZ]

Was looking into financial rules/regulations (posting link below) and it appears that (up until May 1997), international money transfers exceeding $5000 needed to be reported by to government regulatory agency. Threshold was changed to $10000 in May 1997, but if that change was not yet know to Marion (or whoever was accessing her bank account), then perhaps the $5000 was being removed from her account and then transferred overseas (someplace) as a cash transfer. This would avoid the transfer coming out of Marions account directly, and also avoid the creation of bank reports.

View attachment 255362

https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/com...action_reports_and_analysis_centre/sub022.pdf

Totally believe that that is what happened, 1. they had to remain below the threshold to avoid explaining the transfer and 2. used a money transfer company not the bank because bank transfers are easily traceable and you needed a higher form of identification than at a money transfer company and to do that they only accept cash ( in those days), therefore she remove cash over the counter at the bank. I wonder if Sally at the time asked in the post office if they had seen her mother as the post office acts as the Western Union transfer reps.

Can't be sure on 1997 but the commonwealth bank is 58 Jonson St, Byron Bay NSW and the Post Office that does the money overseas transfers is 61 Jonson St, Byron Bay, NSW.

 

[Cliff Hardy]

Maybe Sally should rest up. She seems to need it. Wait for the inquest, take the evidence and go from there. Otherwise it seems to me that it's just running around like a headless chicken.

I was actually surprised how fresh and recharged Sally sounded on the most recent episode. It was the most fluent she has spoken too. Sounding more polished as this goes on.

 

[sunnybree]

I feel as though the podcast has an agenda in the sense that if it is found Marion was murdered, this makes for a more sensational story. They would like the Fernand Remakel angle to be proven at least in part because they were the ones who found him. Of course I also acknowledge that they really do want to help Sally. I feel for Sally because it is terrible to think your mother was tricked/coerced/conned and then murdered, but on the other hand, believing your mother walked away from you willingly, and stayed away? That would really, really hurt.

Having said that, I don’t think it’s out of the question that Marion was murdered but I think right now, Fernand is not the most likely person of interest. I think the mystery man Sally saw with Marion, with Marion then pretending not to see Sally, is the man to identify. Now if information was to come out to say Fernand had definitely been to Australia under a false identity (as there were no persons named Remakel going in or out of Australia during the time period), then I could re-evaluate. But at this stage, I lean towards mystery man because of Marion’s behaviour that night.

 

[Housemartyn]

I was actually surprised how fresh and recharged Sally sounded on the most recent episode. It was the most fluent she has spoken too. Sounding more polished as this goes on.

She said herself she had been feeling very stressed and that it was taking a toll on not just herself but her family and friends too.

 

[sunnynz]

I think the mystery man Sally saw with Marion, with Marion then pretending not to see Sally, is the man to identify. Now if information was to come out to say Fernand had definitely been to Australia under a false identity (as there were no persons named Remakel going in or out of Australia during the time period), then I could re-evaluate. But at this stage, I lean towards mystery man because of Marion’s behaviour that night.

I think mystery man is definitely a person of interest. I think he could well be mr remakel- whether that’s a real mr Remakel or a man pretending to be called Remakel

 

[KiwiNZ]

Podcast - I find for professional journalists they are really lacking in their investigation skills and even common sense, I think without Joni whom seem to have uncovered the majority if not all of the leads and evidence they would be no where, mknIMO.

I follow the facebook page and all of the conversations on there, I really feel for Sally, but she seems unwilling to accept that her mother came back to Aus even through she confirmed it was Marion's writing, and all evidence points to the fact she did. I can totally understand Sally's reluctance to accept that but some of the scenario's played out to get the result she wants are just fanciful and based on incorrect information that basic checks would confirm. But the fact is Marion did deceive her and the rest of her family and friends, had she not changed her name this would be a different story.

I do believe this case would have been resolved had either the container been tracked down in the early days, the travel agent, or the motels and hotels in the area approached, in the 90's ( and possible still today) they had an alert system that sent out alerts to all motels this was used by the police to locate people and also alert motels to "skippers" people who don't pay their bills, the system is manged by the motels and anyone can issue one and pretty sure they would have given the circumstance. The police hands where tied all evidence pointed to the fact she left of her own accord, I am not sure what was done outside of the bank and police, the 2 places information can not be handed to people. I am sure given her time again Sally would have tried different approaches, hardly her fault who knows how one would act in the same situation but I think I can see why Billy Edgar became a bit frustrated.