Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[sunnynz]

Can someone confirm that this is correct please?

Wikipedia page says 22nd but I’m not sure who admins that.

 

[Estelle]

Missing mother found after three decades! I cried watching this.

 

[FullMinder]

Can someone confirm that this is correct please?

Correct. Marion BARTER (AKA Florabella Natalia Marion REMAKEL)

 

[SaintGertrude]

I hope Marion's daughter gets the answers she has been looking for with the inquest in less than a Months time.
I was just reading about the case of Gabriel Nagy who was a missing person and used his Medicare card. For the past twenty years, Nagy had been suffering severe amnesia working odd jobs. He had effectively started over from scratch. Scarring on the back of his head correlated to the condition of a car accident, and medical examiners believe it caused a state of Dissociative Fugue, which can cause people to wander off.
Marion's disappearance is a lot more complex changing her name like she did but I do wonder if she had some kind of mental breakdown after the stress at the Southport TSS.
This in the David Nagy article. Family reunited with amnesia-suffering father 23 years after his burned-out car was found and he had vanished | Daily Mail Online
Quote: 'Jennifer believes that her father suffered from Dissociative Fugue. The condition is associated with memory loss and leads to people wandering away from their families'.

She said that she has now decided to tell her story because she wanted to give hope to other people, that 'miracles can happen'.

 

[TheCoolestNeopian]

I'm not sure they necessarily do hold the answers. I think it's possible that Marion just said that he was someone from the Arts Centre to appease Sally and stop her from asking any more questions. Regardless, it would be good to hear from them.

That's an interesting theory, Vivienbee. Having said that, I understand that the arts scene is full of disreputable types. Those working at literary festivals, for example.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Counting the days now, two weeks to go till part 2 of the inquest, wowee! Was listening to the promo - "there are a few surprises in store", my goodness, what have they discovered? It's listed as an event on the FB page for livestreaming
Hope all goes well for Sally and her family and they get the answers they've been searching all these years for.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Sounds plausible. As I mentioned a little while back a Scotsman George Yardley was the player who recommended Johnny to Stockport for the 68/9 season as they both played for St George Budapest in Australia. George became a top striker for Tranmere Rovers. There is a South East connection. George’s sister lives/lived in Tonbridge. George suffered a serious injury before the 68/9 season (lost a kidney in a tackle) and may have stayed with his sister. I think Marion & Johnny would have been good friends with George who was well liked by all those who came across him. I have never been able to find his sisters married name.

I have only just managed to catch up on the inquest and as I think this is an interesting possible connection to Tonbridge- even if they never travelled there in 69, maybe Marion heard about the area through Johnny Warren or from George himself depending how friendly they had been at that time. I am Scottish and it would appear there are 2 women with same surname born same area around the same time as George- both went on to marry so do have two possible surnames- not sure if it goes against the rules to post them here, incase neither fits..but I will try and source phone books for that time to see if there are connections with them to Tonbridge. (Not sure if you are saying his sister lived by herself in Tonbridge or was married by 1969?) . It is and probably was more so then fairly traditional to marry in the brides hometown and certainly both marriages took place in Scotland- but that is not to say after marriage they never moved down south. Also worth noting the 2 possibles also married before 1969 , so it is very possible they lived there in that time and played host to Marion and Johnny...but won't get ahead of myself! Also, just to add ... George Yardley passed away 2018 up in Dalgety Bay (Scotland).

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I still find it strange that a male went missing in Southport ten days after Marion's deedpoll name. He was totally the opposite to being her type though, younger and into his motorbikes. According to people who knew him he was definitely someone who could spin a few yarns. Could whoever you have in mind maybe have known this person through associations.

I know what you mean. Somehow historically, this does not fit Marion. Not as she was known then. That said Lesley Loveday commented how she seemed happy with whoever it was that she was with when she moved into the neighbourhood- but made some remark about him being a bit younger and unsure if that was maybe an issue? I wonder if it was maybe around the early 90s and the lead up to her leaving TSS and going overseas, whether she was in some sort of "midlife crisis" for want of a better term or "identity crisis" anyway. Do we know how old Greg had been? I wonder if this adventure she had taken herself on, seemingly impulsive way of doing things was part of a bigger change in Marion. Maybe she would have liked the idea of a younger man as it fitted some need to feel fulfilled, excited and generally good about herself- somethings that she may have found she was losing with recent experiences and with her trouble at TSS. Maybe she was slipping into some kind of deep depression and knew it and was desperate for change,

 

[Sophie-Renee]

This is massively frustrating for all of us looking into this case in the UK. Not found one person who remembers her or has come forward. Saying that this case has barely had an ounce of publicity in the UK including the South East of England which is strange. This is the land of Sherlock Holmes and Miss Marple after all. I feel it needs publicity in one of the bigger national newspapers (any who might remember her probably aren’t on Social media) and a mainstream TV station to tell the whole bizarre story. A little old lady sitting in front of her TV in the UK might then say that face looks familiar.

Unfortunately the places Marion was visiting- quaint little villages and towns in the south east are the very sorts of places which would have attracted more of an older tourist anyway. Probably more popular with those 50 and up...(not trying to generalise here), but little gift and china shops...walks, coffee shops. The second problem is the passage of time. Those who were around Marion's age or older and might have recalled her are less likely to use the internet and social media for anything other than basic use such as emailing or paying bills. Those more internet savvy or into following a series like this (sort of 30s to 40s) would have been a bit young to have recalled seeing or taking much notice of a middle aged lady they saw on holiday and there is no reason to believe she was doing much different than chatting with "little old ladies". I looked into Hallwood Oust Farm- the owner at the time will now be in his 90s - ran under the name of John Wickham (Cranbrook). It appears his son took over around 2003. Most people Marion would have had contact with may be very old now to recall unless the meeting had some significance or was a long encounter and unfortunately, many are likely dead. That said, local media- newspapers and radio may be the sort of places to target. I wonder if there would be a way to approach these publications or news stations to get some coverage and who knows...some little old lady out there may just remember the face or the name!

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I certainly agree with this, tutoring and a cash arrangement or some thing similar. Or a quaint little B and B.

Personally I think Marion did come back and she is /was living a long way from South East Queensland or anywhere she lived before. Perhaps South Australia or Western Australia?? Tasmania?

People are going to get sick of me, but I am now going back through all the podcasts and catching up with the thread since about a year doing other things...needed a bit of a refresher course on this one! I kind of agree with you here Curiosity Cat. From the withdrawals in Byron Bay, to the use of the Medicare card in Grafton and the complete emptying of funds in Ashmore suggests as though bit by bit she was moving further and further south- incidentally towards the area of Ballina/ Lennox Head all associated with our mysterious "F. Remakel"- but that again, could simply be a red herring..think I need to look again at the Trendwest connection- forgot all the details to that.

One thing that perplexes me is the lack of comment when in the investigation as to the sending of a postcard nearly a month after, postmarked from England. Why when being told by people she is likely chosen to vanish is this not coming up more? Because do we even know if they have said if the handwriting on this card is believed to be Marions..?..if so, then SOMEONE ELSE flew back on the Florabella passport and was in Marions' accounts OR ..someone was left in England covering for Marion, while she went back and tied up loose ends (relying on the fact nobody in her family would detect her having returned in that timeframe.) Surely this postcard is crucial?

Also the only way anyone other than Marion would know about the car money being missing is if Marion had TOLD them she was expecting that sort of money to come into the account- so whoever the bank allegedly spoke to, had been given prior knowledge of Marions financial affairs from Marion herself and gained her trust bit by bit or through an accomplice.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

People are going to get sick of me, but I am now going back through all the podcasts and catching up with the thread since about a year doing other things...needed a bit of a refresher course on this one! I kind of agree with you here Curiosity Cat. From the withdrawals in Byron Bay, to the use of the Medicare card in Grafton and the complete emptying of funds in Ashmore suggests as though bit by bit she was moving further and further south- incidentally towards the area of Ballina/ Lennox Head all associated with our mysterious "F. Remakel"- but that again, could simply be a red herring..think I need to look again at the Trendwest connection- forgot all the details to that.

One thing that perplexes me is the lack of comment when in the investigation as to the sending of a postcard nearly a month after, postmarked from England. Why when being told by people she is likely chosen to vanish is this not coming up more? Because do we even know if they have said if the handwriting on this card is believed to be Marions..?..if so, then SOMEONE ELSE flew back on the Florabella passport and was in Marions' accounts OR ..someone was left in England covering for Marion, while she went back and tied up loose ends (relying on the fact nobody in her family would detect her having returned in that timeframe.) Surely this postcard is crucial?

Also the only way anyone other than Marion would know about the car money being missing is if Marion had TOLD them she was expecting that sort of money to come into the account- so whoever the bank allegedly spoke to, had been given prior knowledge of Marions financial affairs from Marion herself and gained her trust bit by bit or through an accomplice.

Nice to see you back on the thread Sophie-Renee. I think I'll do that too, good idea, relisten to some episodes of the podcast before the inquest resumes. You know what's interesting about the Ballina link - they've just now put up big Missing Marion Barter $250,000 Reward billboards throughout Grafton , just before the inquest resumes. H'mm, could this mean they've discovered more links to Grafton, other than the one optometrist visit? Does it mean they haven't found what happened to Marion, but new clues lead to Grafton? Interesting though. Very curious. Cheers

 

[sunnynz]

Nice to see you back on the thread Sophie-Renee. I think I'll do that too, good idea, relisten to some episodes of the podcast before the inquest resumes. You know what's interesting about the Ballina link - they've just now put up big Missing Marion Barter $250,000 Reward billboards throughout Grafton , just before the inquest resumes. H'mm, could this mean they've discovered more links to Grafton, other than the one optometrist visit? Does it mean they haven't found what happened to Marion, but new clues lead to Grafton? Interesting though. Very curious. Cheers

Interesting possibility although I do feel like I recall sally talking about billboards as an obvious Avenue fir her to explore on an episode quite a while back. Like it was always on the to-do list? Someone else might remember this more clearly.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Nice to see you back on the thread Sophie-Renee. I think I'll do that too, good idea, relisten to some episodes of the podcast before the inquest resumes. You know what's interesting about the Ballina link - they've just now put up big Missing Marion Barter $250,000 Reward billboards throughout Grafton , just before the inquest resumes. H'mm, could this mean they've discovered more links to Grafton, other than the one optometrist visit? Does it mean they haven't found what happened to Marion, but new clues lead to Grafton? Interesting though. Very curious. Cheers

Hi Itsapuzzle and thank you. I knew about the reward, but not about the billboards around Grafton specifically. Maybe they know more- but I wonder if this is purely due to the fact that it was the last time she did anything under the name of Marion? Although if they have been told she has likely vanished of her own accord due to the information she gave of starting a new life at the bank in Ashmore- why not make more presence known there- or are they assuming those local to Marion already knew of her disappearance, but around Grafton they may not? I think it has been mentioned before, but there is a Florabella Pass that runs just south of Warimoo, beyond the local school. Didn't Marion spend time in the Blue Mountains in the 80s or even teach there at some point? I may be wrong- but something to that effect rings a bell. Is this a stretch of territory she may have passed often and become familiar with or have some sort of meaning to her or special memory? Just a thought. I do think they need to still be concentrating on New South Wales and as far south as possible, because assuming it was Marion at the bank and she never did leave Australia again, as the Florabella passport would suggest - I think this is the region she was heading to based on her movements in that direction.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Interesting possibility although I do feel like I recall sally talking about billboards as an obvious Avenue fir her to explore on an episode quite a while back. Like it was always on the to-do list? Someone else might remember this more clearly.

Yeah, that rings a bell sunnnz, about putting up billboards, so may be nothing more to it.

Hi Itsapuzzle and thank you. I knew about the reward, but not about the billboards around Grafton specifically. Maybe they know more- but I wonder if this is purely due to the fact that it was the last time she did anything under the name of Marion? Although if they have been told she has likely vanished of her own accord due to the information she gave of starting a new life at the bank in Ashmore- why not make more presence known there- or are they assuming those local to Marion already knew of her disappearance, but around Grafton they may not? I think it has been mentioned before, but there is a Florabella Pass that runs just south of Warimoo, beyond the local school. Didn't Marion spend time in the Blue Mountains in the 80s or even teach there at some point? I may be wrong- but something to that effect rings a bell. Is this a stretch of territory she may have passed often and become familiar with or have some sort of meaning to her or special memory? Just a thought. I do think they need to still be concentrating on New South Wales and as far south as possible, because assuming it was Marion at the bank and she never did leave Australia again, as the Florabella passport would suggest - I think this is the region she was heading to based on her movements in that direction.

Yeah, good point Sophie-Renee, Grafton's the last place Marion used her former name and Medicare card, so yeah, makes sense to put them up there too. Re the Blue Mountains, I don't think Marion would have headed back there, she has family links there, would have been spotted pretty quickly if she moved back there, I reckon, but you never know.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

A refresher map if anyone's interested before the inquest resumes. You pass through Grafton and Armidale on the road to Adelaide - from Grafton it's (19 hr 59 mins by car) (1775.4 km). Wonder if Marion headed to SA - just poking around in Trove now

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Missing mother found after three decades! I cried watching this.

I watched this on youtube a while back too Estelle, amazing story. Found the transcript from the Episode in Trove, the story aired back in 2004. Gee I'd like to know how it all panned out for them, how she remained missing for so long, all the background info they didn't disclose - would love to hear more about it actually.

 

[Mjjj14]

Hi everyone!

Can we discuss/speculate the reasons why they’re closing down comments on the fb page once the inquest starts. Alison says it’ll be obvious when it starts as to the reason why but I am VERY curious.

Any ideas?

 

[Mjjj14]

Counting the days now, two weeks to go till part 2 of the inquest, wowee! Was listening to the promo - "there are a few surprises in store", my goodness, what have they discovered? It's listed as an event on the FB page for livestreaming
Hope all goes well for Sally and her family and they get the answers they've been searching all these years for.

Hey Puzzle! I can’t see this event is it still there?

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Yeah, that rings a bell sunnnz, about putting up billboards, so may be nothing more to it.

Yeah, good point Sophie-Renee, Grafton's the last place Marion used her former name and Medicare card, so yeah, makes sense to put them up there too. Re the Blue Mountains, I don't think Marion would have headed back there, she has family links there, would have been spotted pretty quickly if she moved back there, I reckon, but you never know.

You're likely right as it seems that Marion did have a tendency to move around a lot, but whether she would have headed back to live again in a place she had already, am not sure. I should maybe have been a bit clearer. I mention the Blue Mountains, only to draw attention to the time she was there and the connection to the Florabella Pass. I don't think she neccessarily returned to that area- only that it held memories of places and people from a happier time in her life perhaps and that is where she thought of the name Florabella. Sally said she had never heard of the name ever, but she was likely not aware of this stretch in the Blue Mountains (unless of course it is a pass that didn't exist then..am not sure). It just seems too coincidental that it is 6 minutes away by car from where Marion taught at Springwood. Not too sure where in the Blue Mountains they actually lived? That is the only connection I can see to the name and of course- likely picked by Marion with it being a very flowery and elegant sounding name. Not neccessarily relative to solving the case, but just a case in point- Johnny Warrens' old friend John Economos who was interviewed early on in the podcast passed away in the last few months- I think he was at odds with Johnnys' brother as to how that marriage unravelled- he claimed Marion did NOT cheat on Johnny, but Johnny simply walked out and that Marion was devestated.

Aussie sports journo John Economos passes away, aged 78

 

[Sophie-Renee]

Yeah, that rings a bell sunnnz, about putting up billboards, so may be nothing more to it.

Yeah, good point Sophie-Renee, Grafton's the last place Marion used her former name and Medicare card, so yeah, makes sense to put them up there too. Re the Blue Mountains, I don't think Marion would have headed back there, she has family links there, would have been spotted pretty quickly if she moved back there, I reckon, but you never know.

You're likely right as it seems that Marion did have a tendency to move around a lot, but whether she would have headed back to live again in a place she had already, am not sure. I should maybe have been a bit clearer. I mention the Blue Mountains, only to draw attention to the time she was there and the connection to the Florabella Pass. I don't think she neccessarily returned to that area- only that it held memories of places and people from a happier time in her life perhaps and that is where she thought of the name Florabella. Sally said she had never heard of the name ever, but she was likely not aware of this stretch in the Blue Mountains (unless of course it is a pass that didn't exist then..am not sure). It just seems too coincidental that it is 6 minutes away by car from where Marion taught at Springwood. Not too sure where in the Blue Mountains they actually lived? That is the only connection I can see to the name and of course- likely picked by Marion with it being a very flowery and elegant sounding name. Not neccessarily relative to solving the case, but just a case in point- Johnny Warrens' old friend John Economos who was interviewed early on in the podcast passed away in the last few months- I think he was at odds with Johnnys' brother as to how that marriage unravelled- he claimed Marion did NOT cheat on Johnny, but Johnny simply walked out and that Marion was devestated.

Aussie sports journo John Economos passes away, aged 78