Wow! So FD died in 1963, in what looks to be an horrific accident (reversing into oncoming traffic?). Then apparently did a Lazarus and entered Australia on the Chusan some years later!!! I'm surprised he bothered with the boat and didn't just walk over on the water ...
Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11
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hahahaha! He has been walking on water ever since I reckon!
That's really very curious, @Carovb5. How difficult would it be for a native French speaker to get that wrong? Is there anything else about it that looks a bit 'off' to you?
11 May 1946 - IK birth date
13 December 1968 - Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5 – her parents address
IK is applying for migration to Australia - states on her application – no fiancée and parents applying on separate application -
STATES she knows no one in Aust. NO job. NO ENGLISH.
She doesn't need to worry about this as she has come to help Wonka.
(Is there something here in fraudulent activities that WW and IK have come to Aust to set up?)
( RENOV PUBS ), BE0858473358, Financiële informatie - Infobel België – Telefoongids
rue des Francs, 46
1040 Etterbeek
Belgique
(the same address given on IK and WW entry forms )
March 1969 - A MJR document shows Individual requests and complaints received from people within Australia… NAA file closed
16 April 1969 - To depart Belgium– defers until 19 May
10 May 1969 - IK and real W WOUTERS '"marriage'" in Brussels Belgium (12 days before departure to Australia)
22 May 1969 - IK arrives Aus ( already pregnant)
24 May 1969 – 2 DAYS LATER - real WW arrives
18 Jan 1970 – WW and IK have baby
15 Feb 1970 – ( 9 months later) real WW departure from Australia - I have a belief that they travelled back separately because he was travelling with something illegal
8 May 1970 – baby leaves Aust ( on her own it seems...…
)10 May 1970 – IK leaves Australia - 1st wedding anniversary to WW...And ONE DAY PRIOR TO HER 24th BIRTHDAY
1970 Ilona -Age 23 years- married in Budapest Hungary to MJReid
Between leaving Australia 10 May 1970 and 11 May 1970 (24th birthday) , despite having a 4 month old baby, she is suddenly in Hungary getting married to MJR......??? IMPOSSIBLE!
There is no actual certified marriage to be found - (this is only info gathered from her death cert)
I think the real WW has changed his name to MJR prior to leaving for Aust in case he needed it......
They then married sometime after returning from Australia in the later part of 1970, had another child and eventually she leaves him and returns to Australia.
1970 lost passport- has new passport under FD (the real FD died in 1963) coming into Aust 1971 with DW.
Hello Willy D C.
I believe this is the start of Willy D C new start as "DeHedervary" and his continued association with the real Willy Wonkas.
19 Jan 1970 – DW & family leave for overseas ONE DAY after baby Wouters is born
Also the writings on IK and WW passenger cards in 1969 are interesting…..
IMO MOO JMO
Robert Coppenolle
Born 10 June 1916 - Boroughbridge, Yorkshire
Death 1963
1 son
Family tree of Robert Coppenolle
Family tree of Robert dit "Bobby" COPPENOLLE
Unmarried
1938 Accident - Spinal fracture
since then, atropia - leg paralysis
Invalid
Political prisoner for 5 years in Buchenwald.
Arrest Date 19 Feb 1944
Transported May 8, 1944 to Buchenwald, prisoner 54085
Assigned 24 May 1944
His fiancée had also been arrested and interned in Ravensbrück concentration camp, but she died 11 days before the camp was liberated.
20 april 1945 - liberated by the US Army
Arolsen Archives
Name: Robert Van Coppenolle
Gender: männlich (Male)
Nationality: Frankreich
Record Type: Residence
Sojourn Start Date: Okt 1941 (Oct 1941)
Residence Place: Hohenkammer Freising
Sojourn End Date: 25 Mrz 1945 (25 Mar 1945)
Notes: Foreigners who were living in the location during the war – permanently or temporarily
Reference Number: 02010101 oS
Document ID: 69903207
https://www.myheritage.com/person-1000017_114076071_114076071/robert-coppenolle#
Search for documents in the Arolsen Archives | 01010503 oS - Individual Files (male) - Concentration Camp Buchenwald
Ian Robb's story
20 04 1949 Le Soir
KBR - Belgicapress
Correctional court
＿
TOURNIA
Convicted crook
Robert Coppenolle, domiciled in
Ramegnies-Chin, was sentenced
by default, Tuesday morning, by sorting-
bunal, to one year in prison and 700 fr.
fine for fraudulent-
embezzled a sum of 20.000
frank, to the detriment of Mrs. Elvire
Dubois
Robert marries a divorced Italian woman - M.P. after the war
Northern Virginia Sun 16 March 1965 — Virginia Chronicle: Digital Newspaper Archive - de hedervary
Born 10 June 1916 - Boroughbridge, Yorkshire
Death 1963
1 son
Family tree of Robert Coppenolle
Family tree of Robert dit "Bobby" COPPENOLLE
Unmarried
1938 Accident - Spinal fracture
since then, atropia - leg paralysis
Invalid
Political prisoner for 5 years in Buchenwald.
Arrest Date 19 Feb 1944
Transported May 8, 1944 to Buchenwald, prisoner 54085
Assigned 24 May 1944
His fiancée had also been arrested and interned in Ravensbrück concentration camp, but she died 11 days before the camp was liberated.
20 april 1945 - liberated by the US Army
Arolsen Archives
Name: Robert Van Coppenolle
Gender: männlich (Male)
Nationality: Frankreich
Record Type: Residence
Sojourn Start Date: Okt 1941 (Oct 1941)
Residence Place: Hohenkammer Freising
Sojourn End Date: 25 Mrz 1945 (25 Mar 1945)
Notes: Foreigners who were living in the location during the war – permanently or temporarily
Reference Number: 02010101 oS
Document ID: 69903207
https://www.myheritage.com/person-1000017_114076071_114076071/robert-coppenolle#
Search for documents in the Arolsen Archives | 01010503 oS - Individual Files (male) - Concentration Camp Buchenwald
Ian Robb's story
20 04 1949 Le Soir
KBR - Belgicapress
Correctional court
＿
TOURNIA
Convicted crook
Robert Coppenolle, domiciled in
Ramegnies-Chin, was sentenced
by default, Tuesday morning, by sorting-
bunal, to one year in prison and 700 fr.
fine for fraudulent-
embezzled a sum of 20.000
frank, to the detriment of Mrs. Elvire
Dubois
Robert marries a divorced Italian woman - M.P. after the war
Northern Virginia Sun 16 March 1965 — Virginia Chronicle: Digital Newspaper Archive - de hedervary
Attachments
Last edited:
Just adding IK's passenger card for all to see with "now married" but WW "never married" for same journey.11 May 1946 - IK birth date
13 December 1968 - Ilona residence at 155 Croussoo de Wavre Bruxelles 5 – her parents address
IK is applying for migration to Australia - states on her application – no fiancée and parents applying on separate application -
STATES she knows no one in Aust. NO job. NO ENGLISH.
She doesn't need to worry about this as she has come to help Wonka.
(Is there something here in fraudulent activities that WW and IK have come to Aust to set up?)
( RENOV PUBS ), BE0858473358, Financiële informatie - Infobel België – Telefoongids
rue des Francs, 46
1040 Etterbeek
Belgique
(the same address given on IK and WW entry forms )
March 1969 - A MJR document shows Individual requests and complaints received from people within Australia… NAA file closed
16 April 1969 - To depart Belgium– defers until 19 May
10 May 1969 - IK and real W WOUTERS '"marriage'" in Brussels Belgium (12 days before departure to Australia)
22 May 1969 - IK arrives Aus ( already pregnant)
24 May 1969 – 2 DAYS LATER - real WW arrives
18 Jan 1970 – WW and IK have baby
15 Feb 1970 – ( 9 months later) real WW departure from Australia - I have a belief that they travelled back separately because he was travelling with something illegal
8 May 1970 – baby leaves Aust ( on her own it seems...…
10 May 1970 – IK leaves Australia - 1st wedding anniversary to WW...And ONE DAY PRIOR TO HER 24th BIRTHDAY
1970 Ilona -Age 23 years- married in Budapest Hungary to MJReid
Between leaving Australia 10 May 1970 and 11 May 1970 (24th birthday) , despite having a 4 month old baby, she is suddenly in Hungary getting married to MJR......??? IMPOSSIBLE!
There is no actual certified marriage to be found - (this is only info gathered from her death cert)
I think the real WW has changed his name to MJR prior to leaving for Aust in case he needed it......
They then married sometime after returning from Australia in the later part of 1970, had another child and eventually she leaves him and returns to Australia.
1970 lost passport- has new passport under FD (the real FD died in 1963) coming into Aust 1971 with DW.
Hello Willy D C.
I believe this is the start of Willy D C new start as "DeHedervary" and his continued association with the real Willy Wonkas.
19 Jan 1970 – DW & family leave for overseas ONE DAY after baby Wouters is born
Also the writings on IK and WW passenger cards in 1969 are interesting…..
IMO MOO JMO
Attachments
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Gawd… I need a translator! So he was 24? Hmm that means before 1970? Correct? That’s very interesting as I thought Mrs D mentioned it during inquest.. that he had died. Are we sure this is the right FD? Sorry I can type every word to translate that much text it will send me bonkers
Hard to say. The second photo is so poor quality it's of barely any use at all.
Also the first photo taken with the face looking up, straight on, and in such bright light that the features are bleached out - v - the second picture a complete opposite, face tilting downwards, slightly to the side, and with barely any light, making features look deep, larger, and exaggerated.
However, there are some basic similarities and there is certainly nothing to preclude photo B from being the same person in A
Similarities:
- both are white, light skinned, with very dark hair
- the hairline
- height and shape of forehead if using eyebrows as a reference point
- the shape of eyebrow / arch and distance between eyebrows and particularly the plane of the forehead at top of nose between eyebrows
- shape and situation of lower nose, quite large slightly flared nostrils at an angle
- shape of cheeks and lower face going down into a quite delicate chin
- the symmetry of features
- mouth held apart (most people close their mouth for ID pics)
- large front two middle teeth
- seems that second photo if scrutinised also has long plaited hair worn to one side just discernable
Problems - we literally cannot see the dimensions of the nose or the size and shape of lips in first picture so that gives us nothing.
I would say, my opinion only, that this could certainly be the same person and there is no evidence whatsoever from these photos that it isn't.
This is just a perfect example of how the same person can look so very different in different angle / lighting
(I'm a painter so am keenly aware of this)
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The one on the right looks like a man
Oddly I was going to say after scrutinising... it could be someone from the same family with same features, even a brother, as the second version does look more masculine. However, worth to note that very few men have that type of delicate chin.
The photo on the right is of WW, not IK.
Although not perfect comparisons due to photo quality, I thought the person in the darker photo has (1) hooded eyelids, (2) bulbous nose and (3) fuller lips. JMO.
The one on the right isn’t IK it’s WW/FdH/man of many names
Brilliant research! But I don't understand '5 years in Buchenwald' when all the papers say he was sent there in 1944. Also, 145cm tall..well short for a man born in the 20th century.. and in 1945 he weighed 53kgs. And Claire deH would have been a very well known figure in Belgium, kudos by association. ah, so much to digest in this post!
Rue de Passy???
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I can only decipher Froyennes, which is a district of Tournai.
There is a Rue de Paris in Tournai, which might have been written Parry by a non-French speaker..unlikely I know!
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