Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[mishy66]

I think @centred and @car54 found a Maria Katherina Reid or Read (nee Blum)

I'm not sure when she died but Maria Katarina Read (nee Blum) was a German Beautician who lived in Monte st Tamborine, she and her mailman husband William Henry Read listed on the Beaudesert electoral roll 1977 in Monte st. Could be possible RB connection there. ? It looks like Capo di Monte original homestead could have possibly have been at 27-29 and now a dated retirement subdivision with houses built close together all around Monte st.. The old maps and photos show some interesting historical information about the old Capo di Monte home and cedar getters. Before Tamborine, Maria and her husband also lived in Ascot across the road to Eagle farm race course in Brisbane. I have no idea if there is a connection.
.

A bit more background to Maria Katharina READ (nee Blum)

Her documents say she is arriving alone and knows no one….
But there is also a Luobus BLUM on same ship – born 1915 – electrician single
intended address J? Bendet 171 beaconfield parade northcote Vic
NAA – Item ID 30133397 arrivals 10 Jan 1952

Maria Katharina Blum _ born Germany 27 December 1922

single - domestic – knows no one

passport 3889 issued 5 May 1951

departed from Genoa 13 Dec 1951 SS Cyrenia

arrived Aust 17 Jan 1952 melbourne

intended address in Aust – Leo George Boswell - Albury NSW

June 1952 married – William Henry Read - Roma

Naturalised 7 July 1952 ( states now married housewife living in Surat) Maria R Read

8 July Cert for Reg – “her marriage does not mean she acquires British Nationality – need to wait 12 mths”

8 August 1953 change of address – 82 arthur st Roma - home duties

1 July 1954 – nth Tambourine - occupation HomeDuties

2 August 1954 – - occupation chiropodist
Mount Tamborine 82 arthurs street 8/8/1953 then Yurnga Cottage 28/6/ 1954 https://agreatertown.com/australia_un/4br_house_vacation_rental_in_mount_tambourine_qld_0002668082
Tamborine "Yurnga"

William Henry Read 1943 electoral roll – living in Surat

1954 – shearer New Royal Hotel

 

[mishy66]

It looks like Capo di Monte original homestead could have possibly have been at 27-29 and now a dated retirement subdivision with houses built close together all around Monte st.. The old maps and photos show some interesting historical information about the old Capo di Monte home and cedar getters.

@MrsWattle I have this sitting on the backburner in regards to the Reads.

https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/da...rEA67StnzMUxs-bAC37Y9ptp-k0kyS9r53wePTUnP4A__



https://www.scenicrim.qld.gov.au/do...vibrant-towns-of-the-scenic-rim-stage-one-pdf

 

[mishy66]

She suggested I try finding the original owners of the Cosy Corner (old photo attached) which was the original post office for the area, if an FdH or WW lived in the area the original owners of the P.O would know (assuming they’re still alive). But I think it’s fair to assume Wonka never lived on Hazel Rd or owned property there.
.

I think this is the Original Cosy Corner store/ PO
"For many years the only store on Tamborine Mountain was that opened in 1909 by Mrs Elfriede Geissmann, at her family farm, Capo di Monte, at North Tamborine. At the same time as she ran the store, Mrs Geissmann also operated the Capo di Monte Guesthouse, taught at the Capo di Monte provisional school...
The Geissmann’s store was resited to Main Street in 1921 ....
Following on a residential subdivision that retained the store and added a bakery next door, North Tamborine attained a sense of ‘township’.
When the Post Office was opened inside the store, the name was changed from Mt Tambourine to North Tambourine Post Office and the spelling was changed to Tamborine, omitting the ‘u’ in 1926

https://www.scenicrim.qld.gov.au/do...vibrant-towns-of-the-scenic-rim-stage-one-pdf

 

[MrsWattle]

I think this is the Original Cosy Corner store/ PO
"For many years the only store on Tamborine Mountain was that opened in 1909 by Mrs Elfriede Geissmann, at her family farm, Capo di Monte, at North Tamborine. At the same time as she ran the store, Mrs Geissmann also operated the Capo di Monte Guesthouse, taught at the Capo di Monte provisional school...
The Geissmann’s store was resited to Main Street in 1921 ....
Following on a residential subdivision that retained the store and added a bakery next door, North Tamborine attained a sense of ‘township’.
When the Post Office was opened inside the store, the name was changed from Mt Tambourine to North Tambourine Post Office and the spelling was changed to Tamborine, omitting the ‘u’ in 1926

https://www.scenicrim.qld.gov.au/do...vibrant-towns-of-the-scenic-rim-stage-one-pdf

Thanks Mishy66.
Love your work!
Maria Katarina Read with her Shearer husband on electoral roles with a few other addresses in Queensland. It must have been a lonely time for a Shearers wife during shearing season. she is listed as a Kosmetiks on her docs and Beautician on electoral roll. What a beautiful looking lady she was. Maria must have known the Tamborine community in Monte st. Geissmann family being very well known in Monte st. What a great lot of info you have . I'm trying to find obituaries for the Reads.
I wonder if she had any children.

 

[mishy66]

The only thing regarding a Passy that stands alongside any logic is on a Volunteers walking guide throughout Sydney that takes in a homestead along the Ferdinand Reserve.
John Roby Hatfield purchased 18 acres on the north side of the peninsular. The grant covered the land between present day Mount Street, Alexandra Street and Ferdinand Street. It consisted of flat ridge-top land along Alexandra Street, falling north and west to the river by a series of sandstone outcrops and cliffs.

In 1852, ‘Walshale’ was commissioned by local saddlers’ ironmonger Henry Brooks and built under the direction of Jules Joubert. Jules Joubert and his brother Didier utilized the skill of Italian stonemasons in the houses they had built in Hunters Hill, including ‘Walshale’, ‘Passy’ 1 Passy Avenue.

http://www.huntershill.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/116_FerdinandReserve_HH.pdf

1 Passy Avenue | The Heritage of Hunters Hill Green Book

Creation of a suburb | The Heritage of Hunters Hill Green Book

But nothing in his story is logical right.
I kept it as the walks are close to where the Walkers had properties and the imagination of WW is something not to be dismissed.

 

[MrsWattle]

The only thing regarding a Passy that stands alongside any logic is on a Volunteers walking guide throughout Sydney that takes in a homestead along the Ferdinand Reserve.
John Roby Hatfield purchased 18 acres on the north side of the peninsular. The grant covered the land between present day Mount Street, Alexandra Street and Ferdinand Street. It consisted of flat ridge-top land along Alexandra Street, falling north and west to the river by a series of sandstone outcrops and cliffs.

In 1852, ‘Walshale’ was commissioned by local saddlers’ ironmonger Henry Brooks and built under the direction of Jules Joubert. Jules Joubert and his brother Didier utilized the skill of Italian stonemasons in the houses they had built in Hunters Hill, including ‘Walshale’, ‘Passy’ 1 Passy Avenue.

http://www.huntershill.nsw.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/116_FerdinandReserve_HH.pdf

1 Passy Avenue | The Heritage of Hunters Hill Green Book

Creation of a suburb | The Heritage of Hunters Hill Green Book

But nothing in his story is logical right.
I kept it as the walks are close to where the Walkers had properties and the imagination of WW is something not to be dismissed.

Again Mishy66 you bring excellent information.
Here is info of more recent owners.

19th century mansion that former Labor powerbroker Eddie Obeid has put up for sale is listed by the Hunters Hill Trust as a heritage item.

“Passy House” was built in the 1850s for the French consul. The Trust’s historical floorplan of the mansion shows that it had a billiard room, wine cellar, music room, cloak room and two upstairs bedrooms before extensive renovations were made in the 1970s.

Obeid lived in the house with his wife Judy and their nine children after the couple bought it for $3 million in 2000. The SMH reports that Passy now is up for sale for $10 million.

The Hunters Hill Trust has given Business Insider permission to republish its old floorplan of the mansion, noting that it changed in the 1970s and may have changed since:

 

[MrsWattle]

Eddie Obeid offoads Hunters Hill mansion as buyer eyes childcare conversion

 

[BabeBlues]

I think this is the Original Cosy Corner store/ PO
"For many years the only store on Tamborine Mountain was that opened in 1909 by Mrs Elfriede Geissmann, at her family farm, Capo di Monte, at North Tamborine. At the same time as she ran the store, Mrs Geissmann also operated the Capo di Monte Guesthouse, taught at the Capo di Monte provisional school...
The Geissmann’s store was resited to Main Street in 1921 ....
Following on a residential subdivision that retained the store and added a bakery next door, North Tamborine attained a sense of ‘township’.
When the Post Office was opened inside the store, the name was changed from Mt Tambourine to North Tambourine Post Office and the spelling was changed to Tamborine, omitting the ‘u’ in 1926

https://www.scenicrim.qld.gov.au/do...vibrant-towns-of-the-scenic-rim-stage-one-pdf

@mishy66 the original Cosy Corner in Tamborine was on the corner of Leach Rd & Beaudesert Beenleigh Rd which first opened in 1924, there is now a small petrol station there and the new Cosy Corner is now on Leach Rd not right on the corner and the post office is now separate.

Leach Rd is the road that takes you to Hazel Rd. This post office used to service mail for Tamborine (and still does) and it was also a small general store that would deliver basic goods (such as potatoes) with the mail if requested. This is what the lovely elderly lady was telling me. (edit to add - this wasn't the first general store/post office footnote at bottom of this post)

Tamborine is not on Tamborine Mountain, The Geissmann's store was at Mount Tamborine originally. North Tamborine is on Tamborine Mountain but is not actually Tamborine (it can be very confusing ) Tamborine is at the bottom of the road leading up to Mount Tamborine about 20km's apart.

This Australia Post map link may help
Post Offices near tamborine-mountain, QLD 4272 | Australia Post (auspost.com.au)

It would be fascinating to find out who the post master was for Tamborine back in the 1970/1980's when Wonka claims to have owned the 20 acres there.

Footnote - The first general store in Tamborine opened in 1872, then the post office in 1874. Land was released for Mount Tambourine in 1875. History of Tambourine & Surrounds - Part 3 - Tamborine Bulletin

 

[BonnieB]

While we're on the subject of "Ye Old Passy", did anyone ever look into the possibility that WW was not in an orphanage at all, but in a boarding school. We all know how he likes to 'milk' sympathy and 'orphanage' sounds so much more dramatic!
No-one has been able to find the orphanage he claims to have been located in Ellezelles but I found this boarding school on the outskirts of Tournai.

Historique | Internat Saint-Luc Tournai

https://www.pslt.be/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Pensionnat-de-Passy-Froyennes-00091.jpg

 

[MrsWattle]

While we're on the subject of "Ye Old Passy", did anyone ever look into the possibility that WW was not in an orphanage at all, but in a boarding school. We all know how he likes to 'milk' sympathy and 'orphanage' sounds so much more dramatic!
No-one has been able to find the orphanage he claims to have been located in Ellezelles but I found this boarding school on the outskirts of Tournai.

Historique | Internat Saint-Luc Tournai

https://www.pslt.be/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Pensionnat-de-Passy-Froyennes-00091.jpg

Great find!
St Luc Tournai. Big old school
I think they have a Facebook page lots of old photos. Looks amazing!

 

[mishy66]

While we're on the subject of "Ye Old Passy", did anyone ever look into the possibility that WW was not in an orphanage at all, but in a boarding school. We all know how he likes to 'milk' sympathy and 'orphanage' sounds so much more dramatic!
No-one has been able to find the orphanage he claims to have been located in Ellezelles but I found this boarding school on the outskirts of Tournai.

Historique | Internat Saint-Luc Tournai

https://www.pslt.be/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Pensionnat-de-Passy-Froyennes-00091.jpg

Love this @BonnieB
The name is associated with Maria C and the sale of coins - Maria Coppenolle de Froyennes - the village were they lived.

VERY possible!

I think @CrossingToSafety ?? maybe - (eek I hate tagging sleuths in case I am wrong...) But I think they found
Wezembeek with the Madam Blum as a likely orphanage.

But as I don't believe anything he says, all is possible and all on the table!
His threads of truths woven in his tall tales are all worth exploring.

 

[CrossingToSafety]

Love this @BonnieB
The name is associated with Maria C and the sale of coins - Maria Coppenolle de Froyennes - the village were they lived.

VERY possible!

I think @CrossingToSafety ?? maybe - (eek I hate tagging sleuths in case I am wrong...) But I think they found
Wezembeek with the Madam Blum as a likely orphanage.

But as I don't believe anything he says, all is possible and all on the table!
His threads of truths woven in his tall tales are all worth exploring.

So much brilliant sleuthing going on here. Just love checking in when I get the chance. Impossible to keep up!

@mishy66 I did think Wezembeek orphanage was tempting given it was run by a ‘Madame Blum’. But I really think it’s more likely to be the Ronse orphanage because RB sounded like he said Ellezelles. And Ronse is 6km away.

@BonnieB said:
1. It sounds like he is saying "Ellezelles".
2. When trying to remember where his brother DD lives, he says "near the orphanage" before remembering the town of Flobecq. Flobecq is near Ellezelles.

@Carovb5 provided a GREAT website for orphanages: Oost-Vlaanderen | zwysen.be
It states that the Ronse orphanage was for
For needy orphan boys at the expense of the Public Benevolence of Ronse
The boys attend school up to the age of 13 to 14 years ; afterwards they are prepared for a profession of their choice. Children from other municipalities can be admitted.
This site has a picture of the orphanage.
Oude plaatsnamen te Ronse :: Ronse door de eeuwen


Looks like the Ronse orphanage was demolished in 1962 to make war for a town library:
Stedelijke Openbare Bibliotheek - Wikimapia

 

[Meligator]

While we're on the subject of "Ye Old Passy", did anyone ever look into the possibility that WW was not in an orphanage at all, but in a boarding school. We all know how he likes to 'milk' sympathy and 'orphanage' sounds so much more dramatic!
No-one has been able to find the orphanage he claims to have been located in Ellezelles but I found this boarding school on the outskirts of Tournai.

Historique | Internat Saint-Luc Tournai

https://www.pslt.be/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Pensionnat-de-Passy-Froyennes-00091.jpg

I could totally see that!

 

[Carovb5]

General question:

Most of us here seem to give our tips to [email protected], or so it seems.

What i’ve been wondering all along; do we need to report to the police also or do the people of this e-mailadress give everthing to police? I’m not asking this in regard of the award, but of information getting to the right people so it gets looked into.

As i’m not from Aus i thank you all for your info & help!

 

[brjakj]

General question:

Most of us here seem to give our tips to [email protected], or so it seems.

What i’ve been wondering all along; do we need to report to the police also or do the people of this e-mailadress give everthing to police? I’m not asking this in regard of the award, but of information getting to the right people so it gets looked into.

As i’m not from Aus i thank you all for your info & help!

I don’t know what others do, but I send them straight to SL via the Missing Person Marion Barter FB page

 

[BonnieB]

So much brilliant sleuthing going on here. Just love checking in when I get the chance. Impossible to keep up!

@mishy66 I did think Wezembeek orphanage was tempting given it was run by a ‘Madame Blum’. But I really think it’s more likely to be the Ronse orphanage because RB sounded like he said Ellezelles. And Ronse is 6km away.

@BonnieB said:
1. It sounds like he is saying "Ellezelles".
2. When trying to remember where his brother DD lives, he says "near the orphanage" before remembering the town of Flobecq. Flobecq is near Ellezelles.

@Carovb5 provided a GREAT website for orphanages: Oost-Vlaanderen | zwysen.be
It states that the Ronse orphanage was for
For needy orphan boys at the expense of the Public Benevolence of Ronse
The boys attend school up to the age of 13 to 14 years ; afterwards they are prepared for a profession of their choice. Children from other municipalities can be admitted.
This site has a picture of the orphanage.
Oude plaatsnamen te Ronse :: Ronse door de eeuwen


Looks like the Ronse orphanage was demolished in 1962 to make war for a town library:
Stedelijke Openbare Bibliotheek - Wikimapia

Yes, I agree that Ronse makes the most sense if you take RB's testimony at face value.
He also says that he lived from age 12 to about 16 in Germany, where his step-father was stationed in the military, before returning to Belgium to attend "art school".
The school at Froyennes, near Tournai, seems to have an arts focus and has the "Passy" connection. If he attended there, perhaps the school held some fond memory for him, hence the "Ye Old Passy" name.
Just a suggestion, not that it matters in the overall scheme of things.
7 days to go!

 

[1965school]

Below is one of the links I found re RGW sister but there were more to confirm this link

 

[mishy66]

Below is one of the links I found re RGW sister but there were more to confirm this link

That is interesting.
That is one of the private trees I looked at a while ago.
Did you request to look ?

 

[mishy66]

Yes, I agree that Ronse makes the most sense if you take RB's testimony at face value.
He also says that he lived from age 12 to about 16 in Germany, where his step-father was stationed in the military, before returning to Belgium to attend "art school".
The school at Froyennes, near Tournai, seems to have an arts focus and has the "Passy" connection. If he attended there, perhaps the school held some fond memory for him, hence the "Ye Old Passy" name.
Just a suggestion, not that it matters in the overall scheme of things.
7 days to go!

It does make sense BonnieB. Perfectly logical. Yes 7days to go !

 

[mishy66]

Again Mishy66 you bring excellent information.
Here is info of more recent owners.

19th century mansion that former Labor powerbroker Eddie Obeid has put up for sale is listed by the Hunters Hill Trust as a heritage item.

“Passy House” was built in the 1850s for the French consul. The Trust’s historical floorplan of the mansion shows that it had a billiard room, wine cellar, music room, cloak room and two upstairs bedrooms before extensive renovations were made in the 1970s.

Obeid lived in the house with his wife Judy and their nine children after the couple bought it for $3 million in 2000. The SMH reports that Passy now is up for sale for $10 million.

The Hunters Hill Trust has given Business Insider permission to republish its old floorplan of the mansion, noting that it changed in the 1970s and may have changed since:

@MrsWattle this is so fascinating. Obeid seems to have his hand in many pies!