Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[Getro callum]

IIRC post traumatic stress disorder was mentioned. However, I have had PTSD in the past but I recovered without medication but after counselling. I would never have thought to go on a pension. What else did he have wrong with him?

I’m sure his citizenship came through and went to Centrelink with his ‘crushed by a horse’ story.

 

[Estelle]

Yep tax evasion, benefit fraud, and travelling on fake documents might land him locked up a whole lot quicker than anything to do with robbing women.

That's what I'm hoping will happen. Perhaps no need for a court case to prove guilt then.

 

[Getro callum]

I wonder if he has even yet been reported to ATO/CentreLink yet! Perhaps one of you would like to do it???

Great idea… but it would be practically impossible. If his been on Centrelink disability pension for the past 40+ years you would need a mountain of proof to give Centrelink… even then I doubt they would listen.. unless it was someone close to him reporting or someone in the govt. department themselves.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I’m sure RB was holding the lion share of her cash on hand (controlling) and he may not have envisioned a problem at the UK bank with her mis matched Id/addresses…. he may have done his ‘I was robbed’ phone call possibly even doing this from back in OZ and when the UK money couldn’t be accessed he got her to return back to change something/paperwork release more to Barclays…

Or maybe she outsmarted him and ran home to retrieve the remaining funds..

My sense of it is RB ensured Marion believed she had sufficient funds to keep her ticking over the UK for quite some time, meaning she would not think about or plan to return to Australia and would tell family members and friends that she'll be gone for a year or so. After all, £80k is a generous and nice amount to keep afloat for a year living in B&Bs, paying for tickets, and travelling about - she wanted to travel about Europe and go on the Orient Express, buy souvenirs and gifts for family etc. So that amount was a sacrificial sum to the scam and building the fantasy IMO.

However, he of all people would surely know that she couldn't access the funds due to the ID mismatch. Unless she was going to use her cashpoint card to make daily withdrawals - that would leave her very vulnerable to losing the card or anything going wrong though. So it can't have ever been 'real' it was never going to actually happen. He *could* have abandoned Marion, leaving her bumbling around doing all those travels alone and she'd likely have been happily gone for months on end anyhow. But for some reason, he couldn't IMO. He had to make sure she was totally out of the equation so another 'Marion' could rinse her big money. He seems like someone who likes to 'keep his hands clean' on the surface so IMO he immediately handed her over in the UK to someone else he's in business with. JMO MOO

 

[Estelle]

He would have definitely convinced her to store her luggage..knowing it had no financial benefit and couldn’t be arsed with the ruse he was going to be around her for very long..

Just to clarify. MB went overseas with two suitcases so I guess she stored one in a locker at Heathrow and took one with her and that was the one she put in her rented car.

A previous poster speculated that RB could have told MB that he would put her documents in a locker at Brisbane airport. But, I don't agree with that theory as MB was going for a year or so. IMO she would have wanted to take her documents with her. However, I can imagine RB telling MB to put her documents in the other suitcase that she was to leave at Heathrow for safe keeping and perhaps he added something of his own (as he did with JO at Amsterdam airport) so they both had keys to it. He then went back and retrieved all MB's ID documents. My hunch that was he who told MB to bring two suitcases - winter and summer clothes.

 

[Getro callum]

My sense of it is RB ensured Marion believed she had sufficient funds to keep her ticking over the UK for quite some time, meaning she would not think about or plan to return to Australia and would tell family members and friends that she'll be gone for a year or so. After all, £80k is a generous and nice amount to keep afloat for a year living in B&Bs, paying for tickets, and travelling about - she wanted to travel about Europe and go on the Orient Express, buy souvenirs and gifts for family etc. So that amount was a sacrificial sum to the scam and building the fantasy IMO.

However, he of all people would surely know that she couldn't access the funds due to the ID mismatch. Unless she was going to use her cashpoint card to make daily withdrawals - that would leave her very vulnerable to losing the card or anything going wrong though. So it can't have ever been 'real' it was never going to actually happen. He *could* have abandoned Marion, leaving her bumbling around doing all those travels alone and she'd likely have been happily gone for months on end anyhow. But for some reason, he couldn't IMO. He had to make sure she was totally out of the equation so another 'Marion' could rinse her big money. He seems like someone who likes to 'keep his hands clean' on the surface so IMO he immediately handed her over in the UK to someone else he's in business with. JMO MOO

Wow.. incredible plan. He would have had that cooking up for ages …if his remakel ad was seen in 94 and two years later he successfully got MB to do the name change.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

IIRC post traumatic stress disorder was mentioned. However, I have had PTSD in the past but I recovered without medication but after counselling. I would never have thought to go on a pension. What else did he have wrong with him?

I imagine he would claim lifelong physical injury from being squashed by a horse, all manner of linked complications such as nerve pain and god knows what, toileting issues and anything to over-egg the pudding. Then early life trauma from his odd childhood, childhood abuse, being squashed by the horse, being attacked and beaten, being in prison, being in car crash, wife dying, depression, anxiety, PTSD, flashbacks, insomnia, memory problems, cognitive issues, oh god on and on it goes... he's probably even explained rage and violence outbursts to his family as disability related so they all feel super sorry for him. He even said at the inquest he had a 'problem in his head' because of all the books he had read, LOL. There is no end to his victimhood stories I'll bet. JMO MOO

 

[Getro callum]

Just to clarify. MB went overseas with two suitcases so I guess she stored one in a locker at Heathrow and took one with her and that was the one she put in her rented car.

A previous poster speculated that RB could have told MB that he would put her documents in a locker at Brisbane airport. But, I don't agree with that theory as MB was going for a year or so. IMO she would have wanted to take her documents with her. However, I can imagine RB telling MB to put her documents in the other suitcase that she was to leave at Heathrow for safe keeping and perhaps he added something of his own (as he did with JO at Amsterdam airport) so they both had keys to it. He then went back and retrieved all MB's ID documents. My hunch that was he who told MB to bring two suitcases - winter and summer clothes.

Wow so smart

 

[Getro callum]

Wow so smart

I know she wasn’t well traveled previously but being a bright school teacher I doubt she would have listened to him and left IDs in left luggage (it’s just a manned room) but if it was an actual locker..it’s possible.. I only remember the Left luggage room…due to the bombing risk in the 70/80s I’m not sure there was lockers at Heathrow.

 

[Getro callum]

My sense of it is RB ensured Marion believed she had sufficient funds to keep her ticking over the UK for quite some time, meaning she would not think about or plan to return to Australia and would tell family members and friends that she'll be gone for a year or so. After all, £80k is a generous and nice amount to keep afloat for a year living in B&Bs, paying for tickets, and travelling about - she wanted to travel about Europe and go on the Orient Express, buy souvenirs and gifts for family etc. So that amount was a sacrificial sum to the scam and building the fantasy IMO.

However, he of all people would surely know that she couldn't access the funds due to the ID mismatch. Unless she was going to use her cashpoint card to make daily withdrawals - that would leave her very vulnerable to losing the card or anything going wrong though. So it can't have ever been 'real' it was never going to actually happen. He *could* have abandoned Marion, leaving her bumbling around doing all those travels alone and she'd likely have been happily gone for months on end anyhow. But for some reason, he couldn't IMO. He had to make sure she was totally out of the equation so another 'Marion' could rinse her big money. He seems like someone who likes to 'keep his hands clean' on the surface so IMO he immediately handed her over in the UK to someone else he's in business with. JMO MOO

I just don’t think he’s that clever… unless he actually does have dementia now his testimony was SO clumsy, sloppy and was not forensic in any way shape or form.. he basically bluffed every answer …a very intelligent person would not incriminate themselves in this way…

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Just to clarify. MB went overseas with two suitcases so I guess she stored one in a locker at Heathrow and took one with her and that was the one she put in her rented car.

A previous poster speculated that RB could have told MB that he would put her documents in a locker at Brisbane airport. But, I don't agree with that theory as MB was going for a year or so. IMO she would have wanted to take her documents with her. However, I can imagine RB telling MB to put her documents in the other suitcase that she was to leave at Heathrow for safe keeping and perhaps he added something of his own (as he did with JO at Amsterdam airport) so they both had keys to it. He then went back and retrieved all MB's ID documents. My hunch that was he who told MB to bring two suitcases - winter and summer clothes.

I reckon he definitely persuaded Marion to put all her documentation in a safety deposit box or secure locker somewhere, most likely in the FNR & FNMR name. Then he can always access it as FNR and if necessary claim it's his wife's paperwork, not that anyone would be likely to ask questions. As I believe he persuaded Marion she / they would be gone on travels for a full year with no need for access to it, it would have been the easiest for him to persuade her to leave it somewhere in Australia as opposed to doing stuff at Heathrow or another airport or safe place but all options are possible IMO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I just don’t think he’s that clever… unless he actually does have dementia now his testimony was SO clumsy, sloppy and was not forensic in any way shape or form.. he basically bluffed every answer …a very intelligent person would not incriminate themselves in this way…

Well he gave them nothing to work with and that's his only goal. He contradicted every single answer that he sort of gave to the point that even his own words can't be used against him, it would be very laughable if a woman's life hadn't been in question.

 

[Getro callum]

I think he gave everything away.. such an enormously high level of deception in his words (when he could have said very little) has made him appear to be capable of literally anything and completely untrustworthy to the courts, the police and most importantly his family.

I don’t think a smart/ highly intelligent person would have gabbered away like he did…what an idiot.

 

[Getro callum]

That's what I'm hoping will happen. Perhaps no need for a court case to prove guilt then.

Haha I’d like to see him try and take an o/s trip now…
Maybe he could get Tripadeal to do it

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I think he gave everything away.. such an enormously high level of deception in his words (when he could have said very little) has made him appear to be capable of literally anything and completely untrustworthy to the courts, the police and most importantly his family.

I don’t think a smart/ highly intelligent person would have gabbered away like he did…what an idiot.

I disagree, I think he said such a lot of absolute garbage with no content that it was almost an entire waste of time. Everything we know about RB has been determined by dedicated detectives and sleuths, he has added barely anything, if anything at all, to the case in his testimony - I'm sure he's been doing that routine all his life so it's understandable and it works quite effectively. JMO MOO each to their own view

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I think he wouldn't have been happy until he robbed his victims of anything of value that they had.
Savings, money from selling their house, all their valuables.


Leaving them with nothing

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Marion's postcard says she left some of her luggage at Heathrow and then got on a train to Tunbridge Wells, which suggests she did know she was initially going to be in the Kent/East Sussex area, which then makes sense for Barclays in Rye as an agent bank for her money. I think ID would have been a sticking point though, as her money was held in the name of Barter and her valid passport and drivers license was FNMR. If MB (and not RB) was in possession of the legal name change document, that may have been ok, but that Marion's postcard says she left some of her luggage at Heathrow and then got on a train to Tunbridge Wells, which suggests she did know she was initially going to be in the Kent/East Sussex area, which then makes sense for Barclays in Rye as an agent bank for her money. I think ID would have been a sticking point though, as her money was held in the name of Barter and her valid passport and drivers license was FNMR. If MB (and not RB) was in possession of the legal name change document, that may have been ok, but that money was never accessed.

The journey from Heathrow to Tunbridge Wells is not that straightforward for someone on their own in an unfamiliar country and would probably have involved the London Underground too.

I believe RB was with her by this point and Sally’s first communication home to Sally came from Tunbridge Wells and significantly was on the Hotel Narita notepaper.

I believe Marion was in the same position as JO when arriving in England and did not know where she would be staying or travelling whilst there. I don’t think Marion played any part in organising her stay.

I can’t prove it but from Marion’s comments she was probably initially staying at The Swan Hotel in The Pantiles in Tunbridge Wells. There is a large branch of Barclays Bank not that far away and the small branch in Rye (now closed) 30 miles away from Tunbridge Wells makes little sense at the beginning of her visit.

 

[Oodlesofnoodles]

It’s much stricter here in Australia than it is in the UK. And I definitely believe he would have been on disability from the earliest time as his accident was from when he was younger. Assuming he was always on disability pension DdH would probably have always been on carers pension. It was pretty good income before the cost of living got so high. And from experience the carers pension was very strict in the early 2000s and any anomaly (ie sudden assets/overseas travel etc was detected and pensions could be cut).

Yeah, now you struggle on carers or dsp. I'm not 100% but if his coin dealings were a business that would of also effected his and her payments as well.

 

[Oodlesofnoodles]

Is anybody looking or monitoring that situation though? Or would they rely on 'grass ups'? Also could this explain RB's multiple and frequent but short trips? Plus he was travelling on fake documentation so they wouldn't pick up him leaving the country anyhow.

I wonder if he had disability claims in other countries, such as the UK and such as Belgium or wherever the heck he said he was squashed by a horse?

I guess he had got himself categorised as profoundly physically and mentally disabled in a category that will not improve and should not be expected to perform any tasks and would need a lifelong carer and appropriate accommodation? He might have even been drawing on small pensions released early on medical grounds if he actually had a paid job anywhere in the world.

I don't think anyone can look into the centrelink payments other then police or maybe the tax department. I don't know if its always been a rule on carers pension, I can only say what I know dealing with them that after a certain amount of days that person not being in your care you either get your pension reduced or taken away I imagine.

Its not an easy process to go through now saying this person has x,y and z wrong with them and needs full time carer. I'm guessing as someone else said he got it pretty early living here.

I'm about 70% I heard he also has a UK pension as well, I just can't remember where I read it.

 

[KiwiNZ]

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