Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #19

Status
Not open for further replies.
Here’s something to consider that I posted at the time from the perspective of being an RACQ member in 1997. IMO the use of the word « policy » is a misspeak which led many down the track of thinking it was a car insurance policy, but RACQ did not offer insurance policies at that time (they do now). IMO in 1997 it was a membership for road side assistance. This post here goes on to explain more about its cancellation and any potential refund
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

I’m Australian and have one of these policies too. They don’t cost a large amount and certainly didn’t cost much in 1997 compared to now.

It was for the car SL had, if SL had the car with the intention to keep it or sell it (she sold it), she would’ve had the rego papers. You can’t really sell a car without rego papers (at least without a great deal of difficulty dealing with government agencies which has never been discussed by SL so to me suggests she had the papers). My family is currently going through the process of transferring a deceased persons car into another family members name and it's a lot of rigmarole.

However, the internet was available then so could she have had someone at the hotel cancel it for her once she gave the person in charge the details or even sent a letter? When was it cancelled? Also she may have had the car documents with her and RB got hold of them too. What date was it cancelled?

The internet was available but as was discussed at inquest this likely had to be cancelled in branch (from my recollection). When I get a chance I will confirm this. It was 7 August 97. Privacy laws for places like RACQ are tight and always have been, it's unlikely that they would be able to cancel a policy for someone unless proper ID or verification had been given (whether in person or via telephone). The most someone can do on behalf of someone else is call up and pay realistically. AC said at inquest that the policy was cancelled, to me this suggested that it did not lapse. IMO this will be another of the reasons cited as to why the court finds Marion returned to Aus (along with the incoming passenger card and other evidence).

Here’s what we DO know re the car;

- Marion gave SL the car to be sold or for SL to put money in Marion’s account.
- RACQ policy cancelled on 7 Aug 97
- Withdrawals happen over a period between Aug-Sep
- $80k withdrawal made on 5 oct 97

It’s unknown when SL sold the car. She previously said she wasn’t sure of the exact date however I'm sure police now have this info.

There is a lot of contention as to this next part but it was reported on the podcast that someone told the Salvation Army Family Tracing Unit who then told Marion's father that Marion said to "tell Sally I'm angry about the car" (assuming this to mean that the money had not been put into Marion's account).

IMO its possible that someone else knew about the car arrangements with Sally and invented that Marion was angry about the car when contacted to throw the family and the Salvation Army off the scent. It's also possible that nobody actually said this and maybe it was just speculation made by Marion's father and its just been misinterpreted over the years.

All that said, I can see a conman knowing about the car and the proceeds she was supposed to receive, however it seems really unlikely anyone other than Marion would go to the effort of cancelling a roadside assistance policy. If it did happen to be a comprehensive or similar type of insurance policy then perhaps there would be some type of refund, however insurance companies do usually take a fee at cancellation and it realistically wouldn't be worth a conman's while to risk being caught over a petty refund like that. IMO IMO IMO.
 
Here’s something to consider that I posted at the time from the perspective of being an RACQ member in 1997. IMO the use of the word « policy » is a misspeak which led many down the track of thinking it was a car insurance policy, but RACQ did not offer insurance policies at that time (they do now). IMO in 1997 it was a membership for road side assistance. This post here goes on to explain more about its cancellation and any potential refund
Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14
Yes they did offer the insurance policies back then.
 
I remember it being discussed on previous threads, early on.

When I first started following this case quite some time ago, it was before I had signed up as a forum member, before the sleuth had discovered the 'Remakel' advert and before the inquests and podcasts.

I read up all the prior threads right from the beginning. I do recall that someone using a male name had sent a message or posted via FB to say that Marion was alive and didn't want to be contacted. I can't recall what the name was but Sally and the team will know right?
His name was Clark hunter . I am also wondering about the advert from a Michele back a couple of pages on this thread. I found a Michele years ago put a post up (and I cannot remember where) wanting to connect with aka but I cannot remember the alias she mentioned. She said she met him briefly in early 1990’s she did mention where but cannot find the notice or where.
 
I am also wondering about the advert from a Michele back a couple of pages on this thread. I found a Michele years ago put a post up (and I cannot remember where) wanting to connect with aka but I cannot remember the alias she mentioned. She said she met him briefly in early 1990’s she did mention where but cannot find the notice or where.
This one??

Is it the same one you found too???

If so, then did she also say she had met him???


It is very odd this advert with the places and the year it was placed.

This needs further looking into.
 
I’m Australian and have one of these policies too. They don’t cost a large amount and certainly didn’t cost much in 1997 compared to now.

It was for the car SL had, if SL had the car with the intention to keep it or sell it (she sold it), she would’ve had the rego papers. You can’t really sell a car without rego papers (at least without a great deal of difficulty dealing with government agencies which has never been discussed by SL so to me suggests she had the papers). My family is currently going through the process of transferring a deceased persons car into another family members name and it's a lot of rigmarole.



The internet was available but as was discussed at inquest this likely had to be cancelled in branch (from my recollection). When I get a chance I will confirm this. It was 7 August 97. Privacy laws for places like RACQ are tight and always have been, it's unlikely that they would be able to cancel a policy for someone unless proper ID or verification had been given (whether in person or via telephone). The most someone can do on behalf of someone else is call up and pay realistically. AC said at inquest that the policy was cancelled, to me this suggested that it did not lapse. IMO this will be another of the reasons cited as to why the court finds Marion returned to Aus (along with the incoming passenger card and other evidence).

Here’s what we DO know re the car;

- Marion gave SL the car to be sold or for SL to put money in Marion’s account.
- RACQ policy cancelled on 7 Aug 97
- Withdrawals happen over a period between Aug-Sep
- $80k withdrawal made on 5 oct 97

It’s unknown when SL sold the car. She previously said she wasn’t sure of the exact date however I'm sure police now have this info.

There is a lot of contention as to this next part but it was reported on the podcast that someone told the Salvation Army Family Tracing Unit who then told Marion's father that Marion said to "tell Sally I'm angry about the car" (assuming this to mean that the money had not been put into Marion's account).

IMO its possible that someone else knew about the car arrangements with Sally and invented that Marion was angry about the car when contacted to throw the family and the Salvation Army off the scent. It's also possible that nobody actually said this and maybe it was just speculation made by Marion's father and its just been misinterpreted over the years.

All that said, I can see a conman knowing about the car and the proceeds she was supposed to receive, however it seems really unlikely anyone other than Marion would go to the effort of cancelling a roadside assistance policy. If it did happen to be a comprehensive or similar type of insurance policy then perhaps there would be some type of refund, however insurance companies do usually take a fee at cancellation and it realistically wouldn't be worth a conman's while to risk being caught over a petty refund like that. IMO IMO IMO.

do we know if the payments were monthly on the RACQ ? or does anyone know how much it is a year ?

could she have cancelled it because she planned to close her bank accounts and therefore would default on the payment anyway ?
 
I've got a screen shot from inquest. Not allowed to post it, but can discuss. RB's registration history says:

PVC096
Mitsubishi Magna TM
White Sedan
Owned from 11 Oct 1997 to 30 Nov 1998

He also had this car:
SQA537
Toyota Lexcen
White Sedan
Owned from 20 Nov 1998 to 20 Jan 1999

The rest of the cars on the list are 4 x blue and 1 x grey which were all Renaults and one Peugeot.

He also had one UNREGISTERED car
Plate number #00286195
Toyota Cornona
No other details except that reg expired 25 Sept 1998
I actually think its illegal to screenshot, take photos of, or record anything from an inquest.

Probs doesnt stop people from doing it but you have admitted to it...

Hopefully there are no detectives associated with the case on here ....
 
do we know if the payments were monthly on the RACQ ? or does anyone know how much it is a year ?

could she have cancelled it because she planned to close her bank accounts and therefore would default on the payment anyway ?

For context, mine is currently about $120 per year. I would estimate that maybe it would be half that in 97 perhaps. Direct debits existed then but were far less common, this article from 1999 says they’re the least common payment method used by Australians (by a large margin).

I’d hazard a guess it was an annual policy or that she was going into a branch once a month to pay it or sending in a cheque (very common in the 1990’s).

The Role of the Payments System Board | Speeches very nerdy but interesting article about payment methods in the relevant period to Marion’s final years and then disappearance.
 
This one??

Is it the same one you found too???

If so, then did she also say she had met him???


It is very odd this advert with the places and the year it was placed.

This needs further looking into.
Yes that is the add I was referring to. I cannot for the life of me remember about the other reference to a Michele looking for mr aka
 
Yes that is the add I was referring to. I cannot for the life of me remember about the other reference to a Michele looking for mr aka
Yes there are two ads from Michele’s whether they’re the same Michele or not is a mystery. One is from 1997 and the other from 2019.

 
I’m Australian and have one of these policies too. They don’t cost a large amount and certainly didn’t cost much in 1997 compared to now.

It was for the car SL had, if SL had the car with the intention to keep it or sell it (she sold it), she would’ve had the rego papers. You can’t really sell a car without rego papers (at least without a great deal of difficulty dealing with government agencies which has never been discussed by SL so to me suggests she had the papers). My family is currently going through the process of transferring a deceased persons car into another family members name and it's a lot of rigmarole.



The internet was available but as was discussed at inquest this likely had to be cancelled in branch (from my recollection). When I get a chance I will confirm this. It was 7 August 97. Privacy laws for places like RACQ are tight and always have been, it's unlikely that they would be able to cancel a policy for someone unless proper ID or verification had been given (whether in person or via telephone). The most someone can do on behalf of someone else is call up and pay realistically. AC said at inquest that the policy was cancelled, to me this suggested that it did not lapse. IMO this will be another of the reasons cited as to why the court finds Marion returned to Aus (along with the incoming passenger card and other evidence).

Here’s what we DO know re the car;

- Marion gave SL the car to be sold or for SL to put money in Marion’s account.
- RACQ policy cancelled on 7 Aug 97
- Withdrawals happen over a period between Aug-Sep
- $80k withdrawal made on 5 oct 97

It’s unknown when SL sold the car. She previously said she wasn’t sure of the exact date however I'm sure police now have this info.

There is a lot of contention as to this next part but it was reported on the podcast that someone told the Salvation Army Family Tracing Unit who then told Marion's father that Marion said to "tell Sally I'm angry about the car" (assuming this to mean that the money had not been put into Marion's account).

IMO its possible that someone else knew about the car arrangements with Sally and invented that Marion was angry about the car when contacted to throw the family and the Salvation Army off the scent. It's also possible that nobody actually said this and maybe it was just speculation made by Marion's father and its just been misinterpreted over the years.

All that said, I can see a conman knowing about the car and the proceeds she was supposed to receive, however it seems really unlikely anyone other than Marion would go to the effort of cancelling a roadside assistance policy. If it did happen to be a comprehensive or similar type of insurance policy then perhaps there would be some type of refund, however insurance companies do usually take a fee at cancellation and it realistically wouldn't be worth a conman's while to risk being caught over a petty refund like that. IMO IMO IMO.
I still don't agree with the idea of Marion cancelling the insurance. Wouldn't it be cancelled anyway when the car was sold as change of ownership would be notified to the RACQ?
 
Yes there are two ads from Michele’s whether they’re the same Michele or not is a mystery. One is from 1997 and the other from 2019.

That is crazy!
Did anyone do any research on this at the time??
 
I still don't agree with the idea of Marion cancelling the insurance. Wouldn't it be cancelled anyway when the car was sold as change of ownership would be notified to the RACQ?

No a Roadside assistance policy or a comprehensive insurance policy would not automatically cancel upon sale of a car. The policy holder would have to cancel them or alternatively they'd lapse when the policy holder failed to renew (unless in the case of direct debit where it would automatically renew and not cancel until such time as there was no money in the associated direct debit account, however based on the article I linked above I have serious doubts that it would have been direct debit).

The only other type of insurance is CTP (green slip as some know it). I think that it would've been specified that it was a CTP policy by AC. This type of insurance does travel with the car itself not the registered owner. So this type of policy would transfer to the new owner upon the sale being completed. So effectively, you can't really 'cancel' a CTP midway through a policy without cancelling the registration of the car first. You also can't do CTP as direct debit (you might be able to do it in some states now but you still can't in NSW and certainly not in 1997).

I do think it was Marion who cancelled this policy and also lean towards it being roadside assistance as that was what it sounded like at inquest but could be wrong.
 
That is crazy!
Did anyone do any research on this at the time??
I think they might have but thought see might have been a troll. See my recent post. I now recall she put a post on MyHeritage saying she met him briefly on the Gold Coast in the early 1990’s and was trying to locate him again. Can someone translate the above
 
That is crazy!
Did anyone do any research on this at the time??

Hmm, this happened back in 2020 BUT now I'm thinking of it I don't think we knew about the Le Courier Michele at the time. Both Michele's have different surnames but could very well be the same person.

Do you know when the Le Courier Michele ad was discovered by any chance?
There was some sleuthing done back in 2020 on Michele Burnett but the focus at that time was on Tunbridge Wells and there was one found in that area who spelled her name Michelle, however this was pre AKA days. I'll go find what thread number those discussions were on and link you.

I remember thinking back then that Michele could be a mans name too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
190
Guests online
4,391
Total visitors
4,581

Forum statistics

Threads
592,449
Messages
17,969,080
Members
228,774
Latest member
OccasionalMallard
Back
Top