Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #20

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mishy66 said:
Yes cut her some slack you reckon.

The same lady who when approached by TLV team and asked do you know a man named FR who lives in Australia.
MC - never heard of him

THE SAME name as her ex husband.

KNOWING full well she had a past lover, who was a " lying thieving murderer " if you take her words for him, living in Australia.

The same woman who AFTER the brave women started sharing their stories, and had no doubt seen AH take the stand at the inquest initially, finally gave up a little of her life with him by producing the ONE thing that would corner him, the letter dated August 1980. Something she saved for a rainy day perhaps?

The same woman who initially said she realised he was married when she babysat a little boy that looked EXACTLY like him ( ddeh in hospital having M around this time) and once she knew he was married called it off.

Then says she heard him on the phone talking to his wife.. . and called it off. Phone? Where? Her place, his place?

DdeH flew back into aust Jan 1981 while heavily pregnant towing a toddler, then flew back out to Lux in time to have M in the April. Probably knew about the affair and high tailed it home.

DdeH at inquest, " he promised he wouldn't be bad again".

She says she had asked her ex FR to check out AH as she was suspicious of him and they were all on good speaking terms.... she says that was when FR licence was stolen.......yet FR says he had never met AH and had no idea his wife and AH had an affair.

If she knew all this, WHY not discuss it back when TLV team first approached her..

I mean her ex husband FR and AH had businesses were just around the corner from each other!
OF COURSE FR KNEW AH!!!

No, she had her collateral- the letter.

STALEMATE
Click to expand...
And one more, MC was still in contact with RB when the family were living in Tasmania 1991-1992.
 
mishy66 said:
I know I have posted about "some" of this before but I see the FB page has shown the IK file - this was the one J was mentioning when she went to PROV a few months before on a post November 2022, when they visited IK gravesite.

Way back at the beginning of 2022 I came across a file on the death of IK in the public arena on PROV. - this is the link

I sat on it for months because I wasn't sure if I could post it all up given the inquest.

I shared it with another sleuth at the time at the start of 2022, who then posted it on the forum in her timeline which was really unfair and very unfortunate. It was taken down at my request.

When I visited IK gravesite it was just as MB FB page stated - no mark, no headstone, nothing. I posted all of this in a previous page if you do a search. The images shown on the MB page back in Nov 2022 shows the grave behind IK looking different to the image I took in Jan 2023 because the grave behind now has a wooden structure there.

In that file I found back in early 2022, it showed all the documentation of her death and coroner's report.

Born 11 May 1946
Death 13 July 1977

From her report I can see she had only seen her Jewish doctor a few days before, on the 7 July for tonsillitis. It was midweek when she died and after work at Beales Hairdressers in Hawthorn. But instead of heading toward Dingley where she lived at the time, she was headed toward Elwood, where her Drs surgery was a few minutes away, or maybe she was going to her friends who also lived at Elwood..

She was found slumped over the steering wheel on the cnr of Brighton and Chapel St Kilda.


Husband of deceased attends hospital and informed of the death. ( this is all typed so it would have been a verbal correspondence) - what husband attended?? MJR or AH


Autopsy report - 14 July - no marks of violence, marked scoliosis of the theoretic spine (as also stated per her entry form into Aust 1969), with "gruel like " material in stomach, all organs, heart etc were normal.
Cause of death Mycocardial Ischemia


July 14 - IK friend of 2 years, Albert, formally ID's the body. - not sure I can post his full name on here.

WHERE IS "MJR" if he was the one who informed the hospital of details....


The coroner ordered the burial of the body without inquest.

Buried 18 July 1977


Then after a long drawn out process involving an internal investigation it was found that work back log and understaffing resulted in IK toxicology results not being processed until nearly a year later - April 1978 - too late to show anything perhaps!
There was a OH&S compensation claim was put forward for her children via a lawyer during this time.
WHO is claiming for the dependents???


So much correspondence between departments and lawyers over nearly a year for this case!!! It is appalling!

And then we have her death cert - the details of which can be done by any family member - as was shown in the Walkers death certs.

It states she did Home Duties but she worked at Beales since 1974

( 10 May 1969 marries AH - the day before her 23rd birthday - 12 days prior to departing Australia) - probably convinced by AH to run away together to Australia to start a new life away from her family.

She then married MJR in December 1971 in Budapest, then comes back out to Australia with her children - death cert says for this marriage she was 23 - (cant be 23 marrying MJR in 1971 and 23 in 1969 marrying AH)

It states she had been in Australia for 2 years = 1975 - yet she was working for Beales since 1974.

I found 3 Reids coming out in 1973 on NAA - not sure if this is them but fits the timing

There is a lot of info found all relating to this and the people. I just don't know if I can post it all up.


This beautiful young woman never stood a chance.

HOW many more Ilona's and Marion's are there out there!!
Click to expand...
I remember you digging a lot of this up. Thank you! RIP. Very sad. Another vulnerable victim.
 
mishy66 said:
Yes cut her some slack you reckon.

The same lady who when approached by TLV team and asked do you know a man named FR who lives in Australia.
MC - never heard of him

THE SAME name as her ex husband.

KNOWING full well she had a past lover, who was a " lying thieving murderer " if you take her words for him, living in Australia.

The same woman who AFTER the brave women started sharing their stories, and had no doubt seen AH take the stand at the inquest initially, finally gave up a little of her life with him by producing the ONE thing that would corner him, the letter dated August 1980. Something she saved for a rainy day perhaps?

The same woman who initially said she realised he was married when she babysat a little boy that looked EXACTLY like him ( ddeh in hospital having M around this time) and once she knew he was married called it off.

Then says she heard him on the phone talking to his wife.. . and called it off. Phone? Where? Her place, his place?

DdeH flew back into aust Jan 1981 while heavily pregnant towing a toddler, then flew back out to Lux in time to have M in the April. Probably knew about the affair and high tailed it home.

DdeH at inquest, " he promised he wouldn't be bad again".

She says she had asked her ex FR to check out AH as she was suspicious of him and they were all on good speaking terms.... she says that was when FR licence was stolen.......yet FR says he had never met AH and had no idea his wife and AH had an affair.

If she knew all this, WHY not discuss it back when TLV team first approached her..

I mean her ex husband FR and AH had businesses were just around the corner from each other!
OF COURSE FR KNEW AH!!!

No, she had her collateral- the letter.

STALEMATE
Click to expand...

Fairly put. Clearly I’m reading her all wrong.
 
I wonder who the presenter on Spotlight (LB) was referring to when he said "we found a connection to ANOTHER murder"? Who was the first victim? Who was the second victim? Is he accusing RB of murder without invoking legal precautions? As the word "allegedly" was not used, I assume that means the programme has evidence of two murders of which someone has already been convicted of one. Hopefully someone can unravel the meaning of this.
 
MrPickles said:
It’s highly suspicious to me that MB flew into Brisbane on 02/08/97 (I do believe it was MB)
Medicare card used on 13/08/97 (Grafton is 4 hours from Brisbane) - First bank withdrawal (confirmed by SL last night on Spotlight) was not until 15/08/97.

Why wait nearly 2 weeks to make her first withdrawal?

Why not at a CBA in Brisbane within days of her arrival? Why withdraw money 2 hours drive from her arrival destination when she stated she was staying at the Novotel, Brisbane?
Passenger card states she was only returning for 8 days.

I do not believe it was MB withdrawing the money. I sadly suspect foul play prior to 15/08 - Whether intentional or accidental. Around the time a certain vehicle was purchased. Around the time of non attendance at a swimming carnival.
Click to expand...
Totally agree about the withdrawing of the money.Seems like a Big risk to take going daily to the bank for 3 weeks if not Marion.Maybe a walk in the park for career criminals. Although I am not convinced it was Marion as Florabella who actually flew in to Brisbane.What convinces you and obviously Sally and alot of others it was Marion? Just the timing with the phone call to Sally makes it unlikely to me. Although I guess she was already knee deep in lies to her family thanks to dipshit. That call could have come from anywhere. I feel the purchase of the vehicle/swimming carnival information is key.I think this is the time frame we need answers for to find Marion.
 
caitlincurious said:
Fairly put. Clearly I’m reading her all wrong.
Click to expand...

All I’ll say is that MC was 34 and likely vulnerable. Hindsight and looking back on what a relationship really was is difficult.

Regardless of unfounded judgment of a woman now in her 70’s - let’s just believe she was as naive and in love, just as a 51 year old who believed his silver tongue.

AKA has left his mark for life.
 
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mishy66 said:
I know I have posted about "some" of this before but I see the FB page has shown the IK file - this was the one J was mentioning when she went to PROV a few months before on a post November 2022, when they visited IK gravesite.

Way back at the beginning of 2022 I came across a file on the death of IK in the public arena on PROV. - this is the link

I sat on it for months because I wasn't sure if I could post it all up given the inquest.

I shared it with another sleuth at the time at the start of 2022, who then posted it on the forum in her timeline which was really unfair and very unfortunate. It was taken down at my request.

When I visited IK gravesite it was just as MB FB page stated - no mark, no headstone, nothing. I posted all of this in a previous page if you do a search. The images shown on the MB page back in Nov 2022 shows the grave behind IK looking different to the image I took in Jan 2023 because the grave behind now has a wooden structure there.

In that file I found back in early 2022, it showed all the documentation of her death and coroner's report.

Born 11 May 1946
Death 13 July 1977

From her report I can see she had only seen her Jewish doctor a few days before, on the 7 July for tonsillitis. It was midweek when she died and after work at Beales Hairdressers in Hawthorn. But instead of heading toward Dingley where she lived at the time, she was headed toward Elwood, where her Drs surgery was a few minutes away, or maybe she was going to her friends who also lived at Elwood..

She was found slumped over the steering wheel on the cnr of Brighton and Chapel St Kilda.


Husband of deceased attends hospital and informed of the death. ( this is all typed so it would have been a verbal correspondence) - what husband attended?? MJR or AH


Autopsy report - 14 July - no marks of violence, marked scoliosis of the theoretic spine (as also stated per her entry form into Aust 1969), with "gruel like " material in stomach, all organs, heart etc were normal.
Cause of death Mycocardial Ischemia


July 14 - IK friend of 2 years, Albert, formally ID's the body. - not sure I can post his full name on here.

WHERE IS "MJR" if he was the one who informed the hospital of details....


The coroner ordered the burial of the body without inquest.

Buried 18 July 1977


Then after a long drawn out process involving an internal investigation it was found that work back log and understaffing resulted in IK toxicology results not being processed until nearly a year later - April 1978 - too late to show anything perhaps!
There was a OH&S compensation claim was put forward for her children via a lawyer during this time.
WHO is claiming for the dependents???


So much correspondence between departments and lawyers over nearly a year for this case!!! It is appalling!

And then we have her death cert - the details of which can be done by any family member - as was shown in the Walkers death certs.

It states she did Home Duties but she worked at Beales since 1974

( 10 May 1969 marries AH - the day before her 23rd birthday - 12 days prior to departing Australia) - probably convinced by AH to run away together to Australia to start a new life away from her family.

She then married MJR in December 1971 in Budapest, then comes back out to Australia with her children - death cert says for this marriage she was 23 - (cant be 23 marrying MJR in 1971 and 23 in 1969 marrying AH)

It states she had been in Australia for 2 years = 1975 - yet she was working for Beales since 1974.

I found 3 Reids coming out in 1973 on NAA - not sure if this is them but fits the timing

There is a lot of info found all relating to this and the people. I just don't know if I can post it all up.


This beautiful young woman never stood a chance.

HOW many more Ilona's and Marion's are there out there!!
Click to expand...
So glad you have posted this Mishy. No hiding IKs untimely death now.
 
Podcast Tragic said:
Totally agree about the withdrawing of the money.Seems like a Big risk to take going daily to the bank for 3 weeks if not Marion.Maybe a walk in the park for career criminals. Although I am not convinced it was Marion as Florabella who actually flew in to Brisbane.What convinces you and obviously Sally and alot of others it was Marion? Just the timing with the phone call to Sally makes it unlikely to me. Although I guess she was already knee deep in lies to her family thanks to dipshit. That call could have come from anywhere. I feel the purchase of the vehicle/swimming carnival information is key.I think this is the time frame we need answers for to find Marion.
Click to expand...

For me it’s that SL is sure it’s her Mum’s handwriting on the passenger card. SL has also provided previous passenger cards. It’s the same handwriting. I just think bringing a 3rd person in using her passport is unlikely - when AKA has someone close to pose as MB at the bank. That tells me that MB returned to AU. I’m less convinced she withdrew the money. It had to be the same person (visual identity at BB - not necessarily MB) withdrawing the money for 3.5 weeks. I’d like to think MB had missed her kids (evidence in postcards) - she would’ve definitely contacted Sal. Been desperate too. I cannot imagine it was MB withdrawing for over 2 months and not calling her kids. My speculation.
 
MrPickles said:
I’d like to think MB had missed her kids (evidence in postcards) - she would’ve definitely contacted Sal. Been desperate too. I cannot imagine it was MB withdrawing for over 2 months and not calling her kids. My speculation.
Click to expand...

Unless RB invented another co*k and bull story, like her family was at risk, as a reason not to contact them.
 
KinseyFan said:
For sure. Like the lies he told others about working as a spy/whatever it was.
Click to expand...
I sense that he would have had that kind of c&b story already in play well before Marion departed going by SL’s description of Marion’s behaviour eg all of a sudden telling SL’s fiancé to leave immediately after he had been helping her pack her things.
 
If MC knew he had lots of guns a few questions I would to like ask her;

How many guns are we talking about?
Did she actually see these guns?
If so, where?
What type of weapons are we talking about? Rifles?
Did she ask him why he possessed so many guns?
Where were these guns kept/hidden?
Were they kept in Luxembourg or Belgium or both?

If her story is true why the hell did he need so many weapons? He was allegedly selling sofa’s! Was he part of a gang that were using these weapons?

Surely Luxembourg and Belgium Police should be looking into this matter, NOW!
 
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KiwiNZ said:
Unless RB invented another co*k and bull story, like her family was at risk, as a reason not to contact them.
Click to expand...
If Marion was withdrawing the money he must have had complete control over her. The question is how? The Secret Agent and the fear her family could be at risk should she contact them is a known tactic of serial conmen.
 
MrPickles said:
For me it’s that SL is sure it’s her Mum’s handwriting on the passenger card. SL has also provided previous passenger cards. It’s the same handwriting. I just think bringing a 3rd person in using her passport is unlikely - when AKA has someone close to pose as MB at the bank. That tells me that MB returned to AU. I’m less convinced she withdrew the money. It had to be the same person (visual identity at BB - not necessarily MB) withdrawing the money for 3.5 weeks. I’d like to think MB had missed her kids (evidence in postcards) - she would’ve definitely contacted Sal. Been desperate too. I cannot imagine it was MB withdrawing for over 2 months and not calling her kids. My speculation.
Click to expand...
I agree with your theory for the most part. If MB did come home then I can see how what you say would be how it was carried out.

But for me the passenger cards with Marion's writing doesn't clinch her coming back into Australia.

AH has himself said, as did Diane, that he collects the passenger cards in the terminal and fills them out - he could have very easily had Marion fill out her cards and keep them - he loves to hold onto all the women's important documents - he told one of the victims he would be very mad if they lost their PP, so he would look after it.

He is also a criminal - he would have no problem finding someone to enter under the FNMR passport.
If he is a murderer finding someone to enter under an illegal Passport is chicken feed for him. He has done it all his life.
 
MrPickles said:
For me it’s that SL is sure it’s her Mum’s handwriting on the passenger card. SL has also provided previous passenger cards. It’s the same handwriting. I just think bringing a 3rd person in using her passport is unlikely - when AKA has someone close to pose as MB at the bank. That tells me that MB returned to AU. I’m less convinced she withdrew the money. It had to be the same person (visual identity at BB - not necessarily MB) withdrawing the money for 3.5 weeks. I’d like to think MB had missed her kids (evidence in postcards) - she would’ve definitely contacted Sal. Been desperate too. I cannot imagine it was MB withdrawing for over 2 months and not calling her kids. My speculation.
Click to expand...
It had to be DDH withdrawing the money. I've always thought this. Scum of humanity.
 
KiwiNZ said:
Unless RB invented another co*k and bull story, like her family was at risk, as a reason not to contact them.
Click to expand...
Maybe, it’s all speculation - (but where is she and when - if not?)

I also noted his MO changed to less time with every victim. Get in/get out. He allowed the ruse to go on way too long with MB. Bring in ‘someone’ to pose as MB at BB Bank.

He seemingly works alone to have remained undetected for so very long. It seems MB was his big mistake. 3 months too long in a relationship.

Tragically, I do not believe MB is alive.
 
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