Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

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Can anyone with a subscription perhaps post the text, or a summary?

Coroner calls in expert: was Ric Blum's lover Marion Barter poisoned? | The Australian

from: The Rules: Copyright Rules = Copyright Law

Members may link to a paywalled article so that others who wish to pay for the article can read it. However, even if they have paid for it, members can not copy/paste, quote directly, or disseminate any content within the article. It is not only a violation of Websleuths TOS (aka The Rules), it is a violation of copyright law.

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Happy New Year!
 
Does anyone know if the Marion Barter FB was ever restored or resurrected after all the problems? I get the IG but it is more feel good (which is wonderful for SL) but less about updates in the case.
Hey MrsEmma- the new fb page is named Missing Person Marion Barter (group 2023). I don’t know how to link it here. I’m tech challenged. :)
 
Thanks @KinseyFan! (Ive never told you how much love your name ☺️) I’ll look it up.
@KiwiNZ I meant Sally’s new Instagram she started when Facebook got scrambled. It’s very upbeat and positive about life and also celebrates Marion as a person. — just looked it up and didn’t realize there there are two accounts: @sallyleydon and @MissingPersonMarionBarter.
 
Going through old posts thought this one was worth re-posting by @centred and @Estelle, post #94 Thread #7.
Post #94.png
 
Going through old posts thought this one was worth re-posting by @centred and @Estelle, post #94 Thread #7.
View attachment 472912
That would be a negative
Some WSleuths already checked all this out way back and it is a legit business which had a long line of ownership over the yrs




I think the original post stemmed from RENOVPUBS and the name RESTOPUB was thought to be connected to it. RESTOPUB is actually a collective name under restaurants/pubs/hotels/cafes etc
 
Just having another look at the withdrawals of the monies in regard to some of the victims

With MB the money started getting withdrawn about 2 weeks after the passenger card arrives back - $5K daily over 3+ weeks both at Byron and Burleigh then a lump sum from her Ashmore account nearly 3 months later! - If using her card within the bank she would have also needed her Proof of name change docos given her bank account was still under MB name, because for a bank ID her license and passport was under FNMR name - as we know -
IF she was walking into NSW banks where she was not known, WHY go everyday for weeks to take out $5K a day when she could have taken out the lot in one go????

Then it has been noted recently that with GGB, she gave AH her pin number and HE went into the bank - NOT ATM - and withdrew just under $30k over five weeks...... with each withdrawal about $5K

We also heard from him and various others that HE held onto ALL their documents "for safe keeping".
He was also at MB house 'helping her pack' - no doubt helping himself to important documents of MB's IMO

It is not a stretch to imagine HIM and or someone else close to him, doing these transactions.

IF MB was coming home for 8 days to get money for 'a school' , WHY wait 2 weeks to get the money and.....where was she staying during all these weeks.....


I know this has been discussed numerous times but the new information on GGB puts a whole new slant on it.
I hope they are investigating EVERYONE connected to him.
 
There is also a website for those who don't use fb sallyleydon.com that has updates as well.
@Martinie Thanks! This seems to be the best option. At sallyleydon.com you can sign up for email updates and totally avoid social media if you want. I got a nice email recently addressing a range of things for 2024. Everything Sally does, imho, is classy, earnest, and focused on her mother. Sally's efforts have also brought much wider attention to missing persons in general and the authority's inability or resistance to properly address such cases, especially women's. The more attention Sally gets, the more the flames are fanned.
 
What ID at the time of the withdrawals in 97 would have been typical for using in a bank? Passport or driving license, or anything else? Wondering what happened to the originals in her prior name when she made the change. Presumably the passport is clipped and nullified (I’m basing this on UK knowledge though). What about a driving license?
 
What ID at the time of the withdrawals in 97 would have been typical for using in a bank? Passport or driving license, or anything else? Wondering what happened to the originals in her prior name when she made the change. Presumably the passport is clipped and nullified (I’m basing this on UK knowledge though). What about a driving license?
I’ll see if I can find links on previous threads tomorrow to answer some of this. But from memory, a few things:
A bank employee / ex employee or representative did outline what ID would have been required back then. I can’t remember if it was in the inquest and/or prior, via the police.
Yes- there was a requirement to nullify old/replaced passport, but not if it was reported as lost/stolen.
Others here will have answers.
I’m so tempted to take a day off work on 29 Feb!
 
Just having another look at the withdrawals of the monies in regard to some of the victims

With MB the money started getting withdrawn about 2 weeks after the passenger card arrives back - $5K daily over 3+ weeks both at Byron and Burleigh then a lump sum from her Ashmore account nearly 3 months later! - If using her card within the bank she would have also needed her Proof of name change docos given her bank account was still under MB name, because for a bank ID her license and passport was under FNMR name - as we know -
IF she was walking into NSW banks where she was not known, WHY go everyday for weeks to take out $5K a day when she could have taken out the lot in one go????

Then it has been noted recently that with GGB, she gave AH her pin number and HE went into the bank - NOT ATM - and withdrew just under $30k over five weeks...... with each withdrawal about $5K

We also heard from him and various others that HE held onto ALL their documents "for safe keeping".
He was also at MB house 'helping her pack' - no doubt helping himself to important documents of MB's IMO

It is not a stretch to imagine HIM and or someone else close to him, doing these transactions.

IF MB was coming home for 8 days to get money for 'a school' , WHY wait 2 weeks to get the money and.....where was she staying during all these weeks.....


I know this has been discussed numerous times but the new information on GGB puts a whole new slant on it.
I hope they are investigating EVERYONE connected to him.
On a long drive, listening to Laura Richards I got to thinking of 1990s, Sussex, Banking and International moves. What was Ric telling her to do? (I did live in East Sussex at that time, had moved to UK from abroad and moved money to buy a home, family friend parents owned an independent school and I worked in field of international relocation of executives). Not an expert, but aware of some things.
A lot of thoughts dumped below …
Could he have found an actual school for sale? Or just window shopping schools? I’m not sure where you would find schools “listed” in the UK, at the time. I love to look at property/retail/commercial listings and auctions etc. over decades have never seen a school listed. I would think listing or contacts would be in Independent Schools Education Journals or membership groups. Parents don’t like to know an active school is “for sale”, it would cause enrollment to drop, teachers maybe to leave. Very sensitive to do a school sale, buyer buys knowing how many fee payers to keep the school running and pay salaries. I’m thinking he had a fake “contact”, maybe foreign owner only he could speak with. No way there was a real school for sale that he was in contact with. Unless it was an empty building, not a going concern. A huge financial risk to start a primary school from scratch.
A empty space for a small nursery school (ages 2.5 to 4) maybe do-able.

I have mentioned previously, that MB would have needed a lot of legal advice for immigration, working in uk, buying a school, employing staff. She was smart, she would know this. It one thing to be the “investor-owner”, another to be Headmaster which is the public face of the school. A nursery school easier & possible & private nursery fees partly subsidized so more affordable tuition.

The “marriage” would have helped her with right to work in UK, but would still need to make applications, get national insurance number and other documents to be “legal”. Set up a company. Her head would he spinning, but RB likely said he would take care of everything - give me all of your documents.
There are also the declarations/restrictions on bringing cash into the UK.
1. Those landing cards you used to need to complete. Was it £10k in the 1990s? Declare & meet customs for anything over that amount.
2. At the time, if you were relocating to UK, I believe you could bring in all of your cash, once to “settle” without it being a “tax event”. But she would need to have “legal” right to settle in UK before bringing funds.
Thinking RB bamboozled her with info like this and told her he could sort it out with his “coin” business expertise. Like bring all the cash to avoid a tax event, or it will take too long, get the cash NOW and we finalize purchase before term starts/ends?
3. Also, transferring funds to UK, at the time, through “normal” Banking transfers could take a couple of weeks for normal retail customers. But RB would want the cash. MB had a UK account should could have wired her money into easily though possibly slow. Also could have wired direct to school seller. RB could do not his con at a UK bank, didn’t know the system and IMO he didn’t have an accomplice to help. He needed the money in cash for his con.
If it were MB at the Australia bank, he definitely had to give her a reason to make her take the cash, I think it’s to avoid tax and buy school quick, like telling her going to Swiss Bank Account. Buy the school “offshore” or in “offshore trust” protect the money / investment for her kids? He used similar language with others. If he had an accomplice, the daily withdrawals were below an amount requiring extra approval that might uncover the fraud.

How did he convince her to keep it all a secret and do a big reveal - maybe to show all those little people at the old school her fabulous new life?
It would been a challenge to keep her happy, at home in Oz, in secret - in a local hotel? A remote property? Did she get too “sick” to go out? It was easier in previous cons to ditch the women in another country (UK, Bali), but MB was at HOME.

Not convinced it was Marion at the bank, taking smaller amounts that required less bank scrutiny? IMO- that RB had a middle aged female brunette accomplice. Picturing a scarf over her hair, some eyeglasses from Grafton …. MB deceased as soon as he figured out how to drain her bank.
 
I’ll see if I can find links on previous threads tomorrow to answer some of this. But from memory, a few things:
A bank employee / ex employee or representative did outline what ID would have been required back then. I can’t remember if it was in the inquest and/or prior, via the police.
Yes- there was a requirement to nullify old/replaced passport, but not if it was reported as lost/stolen.
Others here will have answers.
I’m so tempted to take a day off work on 29 Feb!
Thank you! I’m wondering whether she was happily using her new ID, unaware if any remaining old ID was used for bank transactions. I think I do recall prior conversations but not exactly what they were.

Interesting she hadn’t got around to changing the name on her bank account. That would seem a key thing to change. I wonder whether there was any influence there. Were cheques as popular at the time in Aus as they still were somewhat in the UK? I can imagine someone who would have loved cheques. That last point is a meandering thought given we know withdrawals in question were in person.
 
Great points! And my memory is cheques were popular in the 90s. Especially at their ages back then.
I did try to search for WS links but the entire story is so convoluted that I didn’t find any one post that would help.
But if you do a search for ‘passport application’ and choose ‘this forum’, you can check out more info. Some refer to things that were shown at the Inquest.
 
On a long drive, listening to Laura Richards I got to thinking of 1990s, Sussex, Banking and International moves. What was Ric telling her to do? (I did live in East Sussex at that time, had moved to UK from abroad and moved money to buy a home, family friend parents owned an independent school and I worked in field of international relocation of executives). Not an expert, but aware of some things.
A lot of thoughts dumped below …
Could he have found an actual school for sale? Or just window shopping schools? I’m not sure where you would find schools “listed” in the UK, at the time. I love to look at property/retail/commercial listings and auctions etc. over decades have never seen a school listed. I would think listing or contacts would be in Independent Schools Education Journals or membership groups. Parents don’t like to know an active school is “for sale”, it would cause enrollment to drop, teachers maybe to leave. Very sensitive to do a school sale, buyer buys knowing how many fee payers to keep the school running and pay salaries. I’m thinking he had a fake “contact”, maybe foreign owner only he could speak with. No way there was a real school for sale that he was in contact with. Unless it was an empty building, not a going concern. A huge financial risk to start a primary school from scratch.
A empty space for a small nursery school (ages 2.5 to 4) maybe do-able.

I have mentioned previously, that MB would have needed a lot of legal advice for immigration, working in uk, buying a school, employing staff. She was smart, she would know this. It one thing to be the “investor-owner”, another to be Headmaster which is the public face of the school. A nursery school easier & possible & private nursery fees partly subsidized so more affordable tuition.

The “marriage” would have helped her with right to work in UK, but would still need to make applications, get national insurance number and other documents to be “legal”. Set up a company. Her head would he spinning, but RB likely said he would take care of everything - give me all of your documents.
There are also the declarations/restrictions on bringing cash into the UK.
1. Those landing cards you used to need to complete. Was it £10k in the 1990s? Declare & meet customs for anything over that amount.
2. At the time, if you were relocating to UK, I believe you could bring in all of your cash, once to “settle” without it being a “tax event”. But she would need to have “legal” right to settle in UK before bringing funds.
Thinking RB bamboozled her with info like this and told her he could sort it out with his “coin” business expertise. Like bring all the cash to avoid a tax event, or it will take too long, get the cash NOW and we finalize purchase before term starts/ends?
3. Also, transferring funds to UK, at the time, through “normal” Banking transfers could take a couple of weeks for normal retail customers. But RB would want the cash. MB had a UK account should could have wired her money into easily though possibly slow. Also could have wired direct to school seller. RB could do not his con at a UK bank, didn’t know the system and IMO he didn’t have an accomplice to help. He needed the money in cash for his con.
If it were MB at the Australia bank, he definitely had to give her a reason to make her take the cash, I think it’s to avoid tax and buy school quick, like telling her going to Swiss Bank Account. Buy the school “offshore” or in “offshore trust” protect the money / investment for her kids? He used similar language with others. If he had an accomplice, the daily withdrawals were below an amount requiring extra approval that might uncover the fraud.

How did he convince her to keep it all a secret and do a big reveal - maybe to show all those little people at the old school her fabulous new life?
It would been a challenge to keep her happy, at home in Oz, in secret - in a local hotel? A remote property? Did she get too “sick” to go out? It was easier in previous cons to ditch the women in another country (UK, Bali), but MB was at HOME.

Not convinced it was Marion at the bank, taking smaller amounts that required less bank scrutiny? IMO- that RB had a middle aged female brunette accomplice. Picturing a scarf over her hair, some eyeglasses from Grafton …. MB deceased as soon as he figured out how to drain her bank.
Some Commonwealth countries had special rights of entry to the UK. So if you had a grandparent born in the UK. If you had a parent born in the UK but you were say born in Aus or NZ your parents could get you 'registered' at the British High Commission. So in fact it might have been relatively easy for MB to have set up in the UK. I had friends who went over to the UK in late 1980s/early 1990s on a Certificate of Patriality and found the path to staying long term/working and then getting British citizenship was very easy.

I do agree though that a scammer/conman could still work to undermine a person who would have been quite competent to do these things on her own by herself.

I am not sure about the bank. Mainly don't know what to think really as I had a very bad reaction against the bank manager and her evidence at the Inquest.
 
I am wondering - when she changed her name on her DL if she had to hand in the old card?

I know I have all of my old licence cards both from being renewed and from when I moved interstate.

So is it possible she still had the old card in the name of Barter and was using that for the withdrawals?

Also, if RB had her bank card and pin, could he have done the withdrawal over the counter? I know you can do that nowadays but did they have it back then?
 

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