Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

I was looking at WS's list of verified professionals for an Australian lawyer to answer this question, but the only one listed has not posted for 7 years! So maybe someone here can help as my searches have proved unsuccessful ……What happens in Australian law if a suspect dies during a criminal investigation but before a trial? (I don’t have anyone in mind, just speculating.)

 

I was looking at WS's list of verified professionals for an Australian lawyer to answer this question, but the only one listed has not posted for 7 years! So maybe someone here can help as my searches have proved unsuccessful ……What happens in Australian law if a suspect dies during a criminal investigation but before a trial? (I don’t have anyone in mind, just speculating.)

Great question. I’d also love to know about pursuing the proceeds of crime post-death
 

I was looking at WS's list of verified professionals for an Australian lawyer to answer this question, but the only one listed has not posted for 7 years! So maybe someone here can help as my searches have proved unsuccessful ……What happens in Australian law if a suspect dies during a criminal investigation but before a trial? (I don’t have anyone in mind, just speculating.)

Sadly I do believe this question will become reality as the authorities continue to drag their feet. I’ve no doubt mental impairment will be Aka’s chosen defence until then. He’s spent his entire life play acting and this is his final role.

Aka came onto the Australian Law Enforcement and Government authorities radar more than once and yet nobody seemingly joined the dots. NSW Police shambolic (perhaps worse than that) handling of Marion’s case is definitely worthy of an independent inquiry into all aspects including how an individual is able to play the system in Australia for over 50 years.

One final thing, is Law Enforcement even investigating the strange death of IK and a number of others that have been unlucky enough to get caught in his evil web, or is that now brushed under the carpet now that the Coroner’s inquest is complete?
 
Yesterday the ABC ran an article about someone who ran a dodgy online investment firm and ripped off Australians for a total of almost 2 million dollars before it was stopped. There was more than one person involved and they started with a legitimate Australian bank account. Then what happens to the money deposited gets muddy. In the article they made a point of how time-consuming it is for police to chase up money going into shell companies, and that successful scams use companies within companies rather than individuals. Those companies are registered with ASIC too, frequently, so you can’t trust that. One man was arrested at the airport as he attempted to flee but it seems he will escape justice for now. One other man continues to run his scam out of Dubai. Everyone blames the banks. We are constantly warned. We are living in an unprecedented age for scammers.

The man who interfered with Marion’s destiny was not just a scammer he is a con artist. One who is practiced not only with building shell companies but playing that old routine The Shell Game, hands flying all over the place,
look here while I go there. He took women’s money and he messed with their minds. He made some of them, if not all, feel suicidal. That is tragically a consequence of being ripped off. This con artist didn’t just take their money, he tricked them into thinking they were loved. Then he took it all away and denied it ever happened.

I do wonder how many now-silent victims there are of Willy Coppenelle.

We know and the police know about RENOV PUBS and its many little arms, some of which may end in some very interesting $$$? Maybe antiques and other valuables?

So when sick old Ric dies he takes his knowledge with him. Nowhere Man gets to where he is going i.e. nowhere good. In my opinion a civil suit against his estate for damages would be very expensive for both sides especially the side who lives on a Centrelink pension. But civil suits don’t have to be just about money, they don’t have to be about money at all. It could be about an apology, or about information or truth.
 
He made some of them, if not all, feel suicidal. That is tragically a consequence of being ripped off.
And there in lies a problem! We know from evidence presented in court that AKA attempted (and in the case of MB succeeded!) to convince his targets to distance themselves from their family and friends. Therefore, if any of his victims had committed suicide, his involvement would not be known nor linked to him. The victim’s nearest and dearest could still be wondering to this day what had troubled the deceased and the reasons behind their loved one's finite act. This then gives credence to possibly why other victims have not come forward - the dead tell no tales. There are many unknowns in AKA's activities whilst abroad ("..errr…errr…I don't remember...) and in Australia, but my feeling is that the alleged swindling was a constant for around 50 years!! We just haven’t heard everything and presumably never will, unfortunately.
 
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Agree with you both @Ooohm and @Liselle
There would be victims who can not tell their stories for various reasons, many probably already passed.

And lets not forget while we are taking about shell companies, old mate V. W. the accountant, a perfect friend to have.
BTW I would NOT be surprised that AH himself was friends with VW father. :cool: Hopefully this has also been followed up.

And I must follow up with that other Walker address and a certain stamp connection :cool:
 
Oh yes the stamps. Hmmmmm.

And reading back over my last comment I just want to clarify that while a lot of women no doubt felt utter despair we have come to know those who somehow kept themselves going with the help of their family and strength of character. And in my mind Marion would have done the same especially with a daughter like Sally. She didn’t get the chance to tell her family she had lost her savings. Which is why I am 100% convinced she was murdered.

No, what I think happened to her was some external evil and it was Evelyn Reid’s revelations which convinced me Ric Blum showed his daughter his real self.
 
Personally I feel like the NSW Police should have been ready to pounce on RB the day the Coroners finding was handed down, or shortly thereafter. I worry justice will never be served in this case. It was just bungled for way too many years IMO. Besides the NSW Police, where the hell are our other govt departments in this too? Hello DFAT? What is your excuse? And Centrelink? How much taxpayer dollars did you pay to this scammer?
 
Personally I feel like the NSW Police should have been ready to pounce on RB the day the Coroners finding was handed down, or shortly thereafter. I worry justice will never be served in this case. It was just bungled for way too many years IMO. Besides the NSW Police, where the hell are our other govt departments in this too? Hello DFAT? What is your excuse? And Centrelink? How much taxpayer dollars did you pay to this scammer?
Yes and as TLV page says, once it goes to trial all information will be removed. No doubt this very thread will do the same.

So if you are wanting to save anything be best to start now before everything is gone except the narrative by the media newspapers.

Make sense now why the MBFB page set up a private group right. Always steps ahead.
 
Sadly I do believe this question will become reality as the authorities continue to drag their feet. I’ve no doubt mental impairment will be Aka’s chosen defence until then. He’s spent his entire life play acting and this is his final role.

Aka came onto the Australian Law Enforcement and Government authorities radar more than once and yet nobody seemingly joined the dots. NSW Police shambolic (perhaps worse than that) handling of Marion’s case is definitely worthy of an independent inquiry into all aspects including how an individual is able to play the system in Australia for over 50 years.

One final thing, is Law Enforcement even investigating the strange death of IK and a number of others that have been unlucky enough to get caught in his evil web, or is that now brushed under the carpet now that the Coroner’s inquest is complete?
BBM. This!!! Agree, three questionable deaths that should be investigated (IK and both Walkers) IMOO.
 
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I am just rewatching the coronial enquiry, the part where Diane is giving evidence. She seems to be shaking and seems very nervous. I feel she was between a rock and a hard place. I cannot imagine the stress living with somebody who has a real interest in poisons and has talked about how easy it is to poison somebody to ER. I would think she was frightened about saying the wrong thing as she would have had to go home with him that night.
 
I am just rewatching the coronial enquiry, the part where Diane is giving evidence. She seems to be shaking and seems very nervous. I feel she was between a rock and a hard place. I cannot imagine the stress living with somebody who has a real interest in poisons and has talked about how easy it is to poison somebody to ER. I would think she was frightened about saying the wrong thing as she would have had to go home with him that night.

It's hard to feel sorry for her but I agree somewhat. She had a wide variety of other choices open to her but maybe nobody has ever checked in with her as to whether she knows of safe routes out of that relationship (if she wanted out). Plus she's possibly too controlled and long term brainwashed to take an alternate route, even if aware.

I can't see the vid in my region but I remember her evidence and I thought she was extremely deceptive and disrespectful with her hmmm 'dunno' answers.

JMO MOO
 
It's hard to feel sorry for her but I agree somewhat. She had a wide variety of other choices open to her but maybe nobody has ever checked in with her as to whether she knows of safe routes out of that relationship (if she wanted out). Plus she's possibly too controlled and long term brainwashed to take an alternate route, even if aware.

I can't see the vid in my region but I remember her evidence and I thought she was extremely deceptive and disrespectful with her hmmm 'dunno' answers.

JMO MOO
Yes, I think she has had a difficult life with him and is possibly too exhausted from being controlled.At the beginning her voice was shaking, however I noticed a change in her body language after the first break, she had her arms crossed over her chest, more short in her answers too. No doubt he was there in the break coaching her. I also find her rude and almost indifferent… at that point in the inquest a woman was missing, presumed dead, but she seemed not interested. I think this is how she lived her life, just not interested in what her husband did, and that really suited him. all my opinion
 
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Yes, I think she has had a difficult life with him and is possibly too exhausted from being controlled.At the beginning her voice was shaking, however I noticed a change in her body language after the first break, she had her arms crossed over her chest, more short in her answers too. No doubt he was there in the break coaching her. I also find her rude and almost indifferent…at that point in the inquest a woman was missing, presumed dead, but she seemed not interested. I think this is how she lived her life, just not interested in what her husband did, and that really suited him. all my opinion
I agree to a point.
When she was young and impressionable maybe she was swept up in his BS stories.

But she has had ample opportunity to leave him if she wanted to. Her family had the funds to help her and the kids before they were adults.

She is one smart woman.
She knows full well of his deceptive ways and played her role like a trooper IMO

Theres a lot more to Dianes past and her deception of ripping off the Aust Government for decades. This is why she never had a job, so she could move fast when needed too.

She lied through her teeth at an inquest for a missing person. A missing woman, a mother, with her loved ones right there in that court room. And she lied.
She lied about her parents " cafe" because she KNEW that she was taking centrelink funds for decades, claiming they had no money. She lied about where and what yrs exactly she was in the UK, both before she had kids and after she had kids. If you listened again to her testimony she doesnt actually say what she was doing in the UK pre kids.....AC tries a few times to get the timeline but she just jumbles it all up like he does.

She lied about not knowing Ric had various names. She lied about him even using FD as his name. Then the Lux paper showed otherwise.

Her family never owned any cafe. That was all BS. They were in the real estate game and she still is. Properties they bought under her name.
They arent destitute. They just want the world to think they are.

It wasnt just Marions family she was covering up but the Aust Centrelink fraud and property fraud.

Just my opinion of course.


Which reminds me, I must post up about some other property links
 
I am just rewatching the coronial enquiry, the part where Diane is giving evidence. She seems to be shaking and seems very nervous. I feel she was between a rock and a hard place. I cannot imagine the stress living with somebody who has a real interest in poisons and has talked about how easy it is to poison somebody to ER. I would think she was frightened about saying the wrong thing as she would have had to go home with him that night.
Shes nervous because she worried centrelink is also watching what she says.
She is totally interested in what he does. It also helps her.

I remember her saying she dropped him off at the bus depot when he went to see Marion. Sure maybe he lied about some thing like going to a coin fair or such, BUT she knows full well what he does.
Ring Ring, hello this is Evelyn is Ric there?
Diane: or sure it is. Hangs up.
She has to think hard to get herself from falling in a huge hole. No doubt she popped a few valium those days at the inquest. Dry mouth and all. Couldnt think straight. A perfect storm.
 
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I agree to a point.
When she was young and impressionable maybe she was swept up in his BS stories.

But she has had ample opportunity to leave him if she wanted to. Her family had the funds to help her and the kids before they were adults.

She is one smart woman.
She knows full well of his deceptive ways and played her role like a trooper IMO

Theres a lot more to Dianes past and her deception of ripping off the Aust Government for decades. This is why she never had a job, so she could move fast when needed too.

She lied through her teeth at an inquest for a missing person. A missing woman, a mother, with her loved ones right there in that court room. And she lied.
She lied about her parents " cafe" because she KNEW that she was taking centrelink funds for decades, claiming they had no money. She lied about where and what yrs exactly she was in the UK, both before she had kids and after she had kids. If you listened again to her testimony she doesnt actually say what she was doing in the UK pre kids.....AC tries a few times to get the timeline but she just jumbles it all up like he does.

She lied about not knowing Ric had various names. She lied about him even using FD as his name. Then the Lux paper showed otherwise.

Her family never owned any cafe. That was all BS. They were in the real estate game and she still is. Properties they bought under her name.
They arent destitute. They just want the world to think they are.

It wasnt just Marions family she was covering up but the Aust Centrelink fraud and property fraud.

Just my opinion of course.


Which reminds me, I must post up about some other property links
Yes, you make sense. I guess she is in knee deep. I believe she has a lot to say, but can’t as it would implicate her too. All my opinion
 
Thank you, @KathPlumber!!! I watch every true crime doc and listen to podcasts regularly. I can’t believe “The Thief Collector” slipped past me— especially since I live in New Mexico and have driven through the Alter’s remote home location. The correlation with this case of a man who committed crimes his whole life and never suffered consequences and who thought he was smarter than everyone is eerie. To me this explains a lot about how RB charmed everyone and got away with it all. It also makes me wonder if he collaborated on the book with a team of Bali friends as a narcissistic lark— meanwhile laying his life of crime out for all to see. Just like Jerry Alter did in New Mexico. — FWIW on Reddit a viewer wondered if Alter might be D B Cooper and/or the thief behind Isabella Stewart Gardiner museum, Boston, unsolved theft in 1990. Hmmmmmm…
I've watched The Thief Collector over the weekend and boy oh boy are there similarities to AH!

A jewish couple living a frugal life in the eyes of everyone around them, even extended family members, lying for decades about their escapades in stealing original art works etc etc.

How they funded their constant adventures around the world after retirement just like the deH

....from the relative, "Two retired schoolteachers spent most of their adult lives living off the salary Rita made and off Jerry’s pension. They earned modest salaries working in public schools. With the exception of maybe a year or two, they never worked at the same time. Even with Social Security, "It just doesn't fund everything that they did. It doesn't even come close."

Teacher, Music teacher, using aliases, writes a book about his adventures, she buys a property from her inheritance, pensions, isolating themselves, all sound so familiar.

Relative - " Rita and her sister split the inheritance when Rita's mother died in 1973, and the Alters used their portion to purchase the New Mexico property.....I doubt that Jerry had a significant inheritance.....The family kept to themselves, rarely socializing. Jerry had a "smarter than the average man" attitude that some perceived as arrogant. Rita was quieter and deferential to her husband.....jetting off to places like Hong Kong, Chile and Tasmania.....some 145 countries."

The book he wrote, with some family members claiming this was a way to get his own true stories of his life out there as some sort of badge of honour, a playbook of their real adventures where they stole expensive art works and probably killed immigrants etc .

From a family member about the book, "these stories are a way to relive these moments, highlights of his life… relive over and over again and slyly confirm what he did, to do it in a way so cryptic that people didn’t connect the dots when he was alive.”

"Recently released FBI documents indicate Rita had substantial assets when she died. In the report, the FBI says the Alters' estate executor advises the FBI that there are several accounts owned by Rita which had a value of over one million dollars.”

........this will be another "coincidence " that will play out in regard to deH IMO

And I love how the nephew says, " I always like to say, there are no coincidences... when there’s like 100 of them, it’s hard to ignore.”


"They didn’t steal from one place, in regard to the museum theft, they stole from all of us. From everyone."

Just like the deH
 

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