Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Seriallyaddicted]

A thing that i found interesting from an earlier news article is that the police found the keys to the vehicle in its ignition, i am not sure i would do that and then go off for a walk and risk being stranded out there if the vehicle gets stolen.
Makes me think they were possibly at the camp when whatever happened.

I agree. I think most people would hide the keys if they were going on a large walk. I think something has happened at the campsite. The burning of the tent is another sign something has happened at the campsite. In my entire life I have never seen or heard of someone’s tent burning down. I’m not saying it’s never happened, just that it would be highly unlikely.

I believe something happened at the campsite and the perpetrator torched the tent as they were worried about their dna being left on the tent / property.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I missed that information. It's not unusual when camping to leave the keys in the ignition, in fact, it's more the norm (unless you have a "paranoid" type of personality or are so used to removing the keys, that it would be a habit to remove them from the ignition when camping). It also depends how busy the camping area is, however, given the camping areas span a large distance (meaning, people don't camp next to each other but rather camp quite a distance from anyone else), it would be quite normal. Theft of vehicles isn't a major concern when camping here. Also, if Mr Hill was a seasoned camper (as he seemed to be) and was used to logging in the area, it would be normal to leave the keys in the vehicle. As you can imagine, going off in a vehicle logging, you wouldn't bother to remove the keys, also if you were "stopping and starting" moving around an area when logging, it would be very tedious to constantly remove the keys, you'd just leave them in the ignition.

I would be more interested to focus on the fire that occurred. They must have been a fair distance from the fire, otherwise one would think they would have returned immediately to the campsite upon seeing smoke/flames and get in the vehicle to leave.

He wasn’t there logging, he was there camping. Many years ago he had done logging in the area.

 

[Ramjet]

Keeping this thread alive.
I just joined this group as I am very interested in this case.
I'm also a Ham and possible have spoken to Russel in the past.
He would probably use the 80M (3.5Mhz) amateur band for evening scheds but propagation is 'iffy' even if you set up a good antenna... and he presumably used a small and inefficient mobile type. there is no other communication in that region.
He may have used 'handy talkies' for local comms between the two.
And he could have called back to Carol if he got into difficulty and need assistance.
I believe no phones have been found so..
As suggested the pair may have charged their phones prior to a longish walk in which they planned to take movie or stills in addition to using the drone.
I assume that forensics found signs of a charger in the tent... very vague info.
Maybe a compact Li-ion booster/charger was the culprit for the fire?
I know the area .. It's a long walk .. but conglomerate creek / Bryce Gorge /Piemans Falls would be my choice... absolutely beautiful but demanding walk for the adventurous.
Nearby Dry River area would have been checked out.
They possibly both got into difficulty on the walk.. maybe over-nighted amongst the cliffs..
Basically got injured or fatigued... not lost
If they were my loved ones I would be still looking.... everywhere I could think of.
Trouble is .. the Wonnangatta is so inaccessible ( a very long drive into the most remote part of Victoria's wilderness) ... unless you are really committed and have adventurous streak.
I am really sad when I hear of good people getting lost up there..
Niels Becker who went missing back in Nov 2019 was a acquaintance.
Rest in peace... They are all in a better place.

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

I missed that information. It's not unusual when camping to leave the keys in the ignition, in fact, it's more the norm (unless you have a "paranoid" type of personality or are so used to removing the keys, that it would be a habit to remove them from the ignition when camping). It also depends how busy the camping area is, however, given the camping areas span a large distance (meaning, people don't camp next to each other but rather camp quite a distance from anyone else), it would be quite normal. Theft of vehicles isn't a major concern when camping here. Also, if Mr Hill was a seasoned camper (as he seemed to be) and was used to logging in the area, it would be normal to leave the keys in the vehicle. As you can imagine, going off in a vehicle logging, you wouldn't bother to remove the keys, also if you were "stopping and starting" moving around an area when logging, it would be very tedious to constantly remove the keys, you'd just leave them in the ignition.

I would be more interested to focus on the fire that occurred. They must have been a fair distance from the fire, otherwise one would think they would have returned immediately to the campsite upon seeing smoke/flames and get in the vehicle to leave.

He wasn’t there logging, he was there camping. Many years ago he had done logging in the area.

Keeping this thread alive.
I just joined this group as I am very interested in this case.
I'm also a Ham and possible have spoken to Russel in the past.
He would probably use the 80M (3.5Mhz) amateur band for evening scheds but propagation is 'iffy' even if you set up a good antenna... and he presumably used a small and inefficient mobile type. there is no other communication in that region.
He may have used 'handy talkies' for local comms between the two.
And he could have called back to Carol if he got into difficulty and need assistance.
I believe no phones have been found so..
As suggested the pair may have charged their phones prior to a longish walk in which they planned to take movie or stills in addition to using the drone.
I assume that forensics found signs of a charger in the tent... very vague info.
Maybe a compact Li-ion booster/charger was the culprit for the fire?
I know the area .. It's a long walk .. but conglomerate creek / Bryce Gorge /Piemans Falls would be my choice... absolutely beautiful but demanding walk for the adventurous.
Nearby Dry River area would have been checked out.
They possibly both got into difficulty on the walk.. maybe over-nighted amongst the cliffs..
Basically got injured or fatigued... not lost
If they were my loved ones I would be still looking.... everywhere I could think of.
Trouble is .. the Wonnangatta is so inaccessible ( a very long drive into the most remote part of Victoria's wilderness) ... unless you are really committed and have adventurous streak.
I am really sad when I hear of good people getting lost up there..
Niels Becker who went missing back in Nov 2019 was a acquaintance.
Rest in peace... They are all in a better place.

thanks for your reply, I’m new here too.
The keys were found in the ignition of the car. Do you think you would leave the keys in the ignition if going on a long walk?

 

[Ramjet]

He wasn’t there logging, he was there camping. Many years ago he had done logging in the area.


thanks for your reply, I’m new here too.
The keys were found in the ignition of the car. Do you think you would leave the keys in the ignition if going on a long walk?

There would not be a safer place to leave your car unattended...
personally I leave my keys on the back left tyre.
But he may have left Carol at the camp site while he went on a walk.
Not knowing these people it's guesswork... but even with a heart condition you could embark on a fairly long walk.
Like others on here I don't imagine that Carol would embark on such a walk but she may have gone to his assistance.
I'm assuming that like most Hams he would not be lacking in hand held comms equipment for use in exactly these conditions.
I'm thinking he called back to Carol for .. what ever reason and she subsequently also succumbed.
It's agonizing to think about .. but I don't relish dying slowly in a lonely place.

 

[Ramjet]

And....
No sign of a campfire. . Very responsible campers it seems and used a camp stove in the tent?
Police found no trace of them and no evidence of foul play.
Deer hunters?
The deer are in plague numbers much closer to Melbourne ... unlikely.
Everything on here is conjecture and much of it assumes someone went to ridiculous length to conceal a crime.
There does not appear to me a sufficiently strong argument for foul play.
These appear to be good people with loving families.
It is more likely a misadventure.
I would hope that the search continues before conditions worsen.

 

[Ramjet]

Here is a live video of the recent media conference:

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So.. they arrived and have set up camp by Fri evening (20th Mar) just before dark.. confirmed by Russel's scheduled chat on HF... 3.765Mhz Ham freq where comms would be very 'iffy' with huge static and interference / atmospherics etc.
I guess they must have stayed overnight somewhere on the long drive up on the the previous day (Thurs 19th).. not surprising since it is an epic drive all the way from Pakenham to the Howitt Plains and Wonnangatta area. (I have done this many times)
Therefore the incident must have occurred between dusk on the Frid and 2:00PM next day (Sat) when the camp site was observed to be burnt.
Further narrowing it down to several hours before this because the ashes from the fire were cold. (confirmed by a witness)
So it appears that Russel has gone off .. possibly with the drone as it is not confirmed whether it was burnt in the fire... and got himself into trouble.. somewhere.
It seems that the search was restricted due to the logistics of limited resources / accessibility and covid constraints.
Also an assumption made that the two individuals were not likely to venture far due to a lack of interest in bushwalking.
I think this is key to finding them.
The search has .. so far .. just not been comprehensive enough.
My opinion..

 

[MissUnderstood]

The fire and keys in ignition does seem suspect. Was there another car or did they arrive together?

 

[bancam]

...Was there another car or did they arrive together?

Possibly another car, but not Carol Clay’s own vehicle which was found still parked in the garage at her home at Pakenham according to news.com.au - unless of course it was driven back there.

 

[Ramjet]

I'm thinking that Russel and Carol together embarked on a lengthy walk early on the Sat morning... possibly taking the drone to do some exploring...
Perhaps ambitious for an elderly couple.
The weather was good .. the camp all set up nicely..
and the stove in the tent cooking their evening meal.
The burnt camp site was discovered at 2:00PM.

 

[Timekeeper65]

@Ramjet WELCOME

Thanks for joining this discussion. Appreciate your point of view. Sad to ponder what happened to these two. Unlikely they are alive...it’s been too long now.

 

[Ramjet]

Thanks for the welcome
Yes it's too late for them now.
And the weather about to make searching impossible for a 6 - 9 month period.
It really is sad that the search was unsuccessful.

 

[Black-Cat]

I disagree I would leave the keys in the car if I was at the campsite but not if I was going for a walk .... I camp quite often and unfortunately you always lock up if you’re not at the site ..... I think it’s strange for someone to leave the keys in the car. MOO

 

[Ramjet]

I disagree I would leave the keys in the car if I was at the campsite but not if I was going for a walk .... I camp quite often and unfortunately you always lock up if you’re not at the site ..... I think it’s strange for someone to leave the keys in

It's quite possible Carol was called to assist her companion ... via hand held comms ..
There is absolutely zero reason to be concerned about theft at this location.

 

[Ramjet]

Further. .. I'm assuming here that the couple did not go outside of a few kms. .. .giving time to return to camp and turn off the gas appliance.
Given they were not experienced walkers I think they ran into problems not far from camp.... maybe looking for a lost drone perhaps?
Dense bush would make finding them very difficult.
I prefer to not think about the more sinister possibilities...

 

[Ramjet]

The vehicle was *locked* and the keys were *not* found at the site. (video 30:48)
The police "gained access to the car by other means".
<modsnip>
The situation is plainly a missing persons and .. so far.. the search has been unsuccessful.

 

[Seajay]

The vehicle was *locked* and the keys were *not* found at the site. (video 30:48)
The police "gained access to the car by other means".
<modsnip>
The situation is plainly a missing persons and .. so far.. the search has been unsuccessful.

I’ve listened to the video and parts of the video around the 30:48 mark and I didn’t hear any reference to the vehicle being locked and the keys not being found at the campsite. I’m really interested in that.

It’s unfortunate that this couple disappeared right around the COVID issue where people couldn’t be in large crowds to search for them.

Apparently not anyone else was around because there was a fire and no one noticed it and reported it.

I do imagine at their ages, a serious, heavy duty hike would be out of the question, especially considering the terrain.

It’s been long enough that I doubt they are alive. And I find it suspect that all this happened and their bodies weren’t found nor were they found alive. IMO

 

[bancam]

I’ve listened to the video and parts of the video around the 30:48 mark and I didn’t hear any reference to the vehicle being locked and the keys not being found at the campsite. I’m really interested in that.

From the police presser video...
30:53 “the car was locked”
31:18 “the keys to the car were missing”

 

[Seajay]

From the police presser video...
30:53 “the car was locked”
31:18 “the keys to the car were missing”

Thank you, I shall go back and listen again.

So often, initial accounts of details in a case turn out to be wrong. It seems this case is no different. There was an extensive discussion about the keys being left in the ignition and the doors being unlocked in the beginning of this thread.

 

[RobinCAL]

This is incredibly interesting. I hope there is some news soon!