Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[TootsieFootsie]

Earlier news reports said he left to go on his trip after having an argument with his wife.
I'm not sure now if that was the last trip or the one where Russell and Carol lost their lives.

Also the police knew he had a weapon with him on this last trip.
How did they know, unless they saw him load it into the car, or they quickly searched his place.... Or someone close to him who was worried about him talked to someone, ie on their bugged phone.

Or someone worried about his frame of mind and knew he had the gun, contacted the police.

 

[Eaglette]

GL wife would/should have asked a ton of questions after watching 60 Minutes.
Nagged him perhaps about going in immediately to speak to the police.

I think you can put up an Ad in Gumtree & buyers call you direct on your mobile. So GL may have listed it - as a decoy ( when it was already cut up at the bottom of a lake). "Wifey I sold it"

What gets me is the ping off RH mobile.
It's murder #101 = "disable the SIM"
Not take it for a spin in the Getaway car.....

 

[Puggo]

What gets me is the ping off RH mobile.
It's murder #101 = "disable the SIM"
Not take it for a spin in the Getaway car.....

I can envisage a scenario where GL is driving and starts getting message notifications, from *two* phones.

It would be interesting if the evidence shows this was last time RH phone ever pinged. MOO.

 

[Edvis]

I took the time to absorb the self defense theory as well, sure it could have happened. I also understand that many who have had to defend themselves do mind boggling things afterwards thinking that they may not be believed. This suspect's actions are as I see it past that point as his repeated actions took him further from self defense to a cold blooded killer and at no point took a moment to stop and say to self, your crossing the line!. Burning and hiding evidence, hiding bodies and the list goes on. Tis better to stay put deal with the situation, assisting authorities, heck hold their hand and walk them through the scene as it played out. Now the small cut you created has turned into a gaping wound that's bleeding out fast and the ambulance is stuck in the mud at the bottom of mountain that you created.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The camera on Mount Hotham was designed to catch anyone who was avoiding paying a resort entry fee. But police allege that at 9.48am on 21 March 2020 it captured something else: a Nissan Patrol being driven by GL.

Of all the evidence that police allege they have against him, it was this photo that first led detectives to his door.

On 3 June 2020 they were provided footage from the automatic numberplate recognition cameras for a 10-minute period on Mount Hotham.

In early December, police obtained warrants to intercept Lynn’s calls, and place surveillance devices in his house and 4WD, Florence outlines in his statement.

 

[emirates1957]

A bit of trivia .....

I was reading a true crime book that was at trial stage. The defendant was advised by their lawyer to write on a pad (anything they wanted to write ... squiggles, doodles, real stuff) so that the defendant would look down and distract themselves, and not have readable facial expressions or readable reactions to what was being said.

Ha reminds me of Amber Heard (almost too embarrassed to mention that).

 

[JBowie]

A bit of trivia .....

I was reading a true crime book that was at trial stage. The defendant was advised by their lawyer to write on a pad (anything they wanted to write ... squiggles, doodles, real stuff) so that the defendant would look down and distract themselves, and not have readable facial expressions or readable reactions to what was being said.

That didn't work too well for Rolf Harris:

Rolf Harris caught drawing doodles in court has drawings confiscated

Jurors spotted Harris doodling but Judge said: "I’m utterly clear the making of the sketches was innocent. In fact they have since been confiscated and destroyed. Please do not worry about that and do not hold that against the defendant in any way"

www.mirror.co.uk

 

[JudgeJudi]

Florence said in his statement that he and another detective were listening to Lynn speaking to himself on 22 November 2021 when “the accused appeared to be crying and started talking in the past tense and he was engaged in self-talk that was concerning and seemed to indicate a propensity for self-harm”.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Detective who worked to crack case of missing secret lover campers

Specialised police will return to the rugged wilderness where two elderly campers were allegedly shot, stabbed and left to the unforgiving environment.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The compelling inside story of veteran detective who worked to crack the case of the missing secret lover campers - and the unfinished business he has in the wilderness

 

[JBowie]

Detective who worked to crack case of missing secret lover campers

Specialised police will return to the rugged wilderness where two elderly campers were allegedly shot, stabbed and left to the unforgiving environment.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The compelling inside story of veteran detective who worked to crack the case of the missing secret lover campers - and the unfinished business he has in the wilderness

I truly hope that VIC police haven't significantly weakened their case against Lynn by failing to follow correct procedure in the early stages.

 

[Puggo]

I truly hope that VIC police haven't significantly weakened their case against Lynn by failing to follow correct procedure in the early stages.

IMO the defence will try to muddy the waters and the early investigation timeline.

The prosecution will likely argue the initial conversation in Caroline Springs was nothing more than a routine enquiry of a potential witness to assist with enquiries. Witnesses don't need to be warned and whatever information he gave at that stage is purely voluntary.

The surveillance warrant is the point at which the police cannot deny GL is a suspect. They had to provide evidence of reasonable suspicion to obtain it.

The defence may argue that GL should have been formally warned and questioned prior to this. That is problematic as only circumstancial evidence placed GL in the area at the time of the disappearance- along with 12 other people placedin the area by similar circumstancial evidence, who by extension should have been warned and formally questioned.

If so, that is an unrealistically low threshold of suspicion and huge workload for investigators if that is successfully argued by defence. Also a hindrance to cooperation by any potential witnesses.

MOO

 

[Puggo]

Further to the above:

It's important to remember that police having an open mind to an investigation is critical to accurate outcomes. Treating someone as a potential witness at first interaction and then later a potential suspect is a sign of good police work. MOO

 

[JudgeJudi]

60 Minutes - Foul play or misadventure? | Under Investigation

Warren Meyer 23 March 2008
David Prideaux 4 June 2011
Conrad Whitlock 29 July 2019
Niels Becker 24 October 2019

Kelvin Tennant incident on 18 February 2017
Not missing but deliberately shot 3 times. He was riding his motorised bicycle on the Myrtleford-Everton Rail Trail when he was shot twice in the head and once in the chest by a man who got out of a parked dark coloured car, maybe a Commodore or Camry sedan. He was hit by .22 calibre bullets fired from a pistol. There’s a $500,000 reward for information. Pic of the victim in hospital and X-ray showing bullet wounds to the head.

Victorian cyclist played dead after shooter randomly shot him three times

I can well imagine this shooter could be a serial killer.

As beautiful as the high country is, I'd only feel comfortable camping/bushwalking there if I were part of a group, and I'm not a nervous Nellie sort of gal.

 

[JBowie]

The defence may argue that GL should have been formally warned and questioned prior to this. That is problematic as only circumstancial evidence placed GL in the area at the time of the disappearance- along with 12 other people placedin the area by similar circumstancial evidence, who by extension should have been warned and formally questioned.

If so, that is an unrealistically low threshold of suspicion and huge workload for investigators if that is successfully argued by defence. Also a hindrance to cooperation by any potential witnesses.

MOO

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

The line that Dann KC is apparently pushing, when he argues that the interview material should be ruled inadmissible, is that Lynn should have been cautioned as a suspect. He claims that by the time Lynn was questioned, he was the only person considered by police as a suspect.

(This business of 'suspect' versus 'person of interest' has been tossed around in other places, notably the William Tyrrell thread.)

Again, my concern is that Dann's argument may hold sway with the judge thereby possibly considerably weakening the prosecution's case for murder.

As the quoted article points out, Dann has a history of getting his (often notorious) clients out of sticky legal situations.

 

[Puggo]

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer.

The line that Dann KC is apparently pushing, when he argues that the interview material should be ruled inadmissible, is that Lynn should have been cautioned as a suspect. He claims that by the time Lynn was questioned, he was the only person considered by police as a suspect.

(This business of 'suspect' versus 'person of interest' has been tossed around in other places, notably the William Tyrrell thread.)

Again, my concern is that Dann's argument may hold sway with the judge thereby possibly considerably weakening the prosecution's case for murder.

As the quoted article points out, Dann has a history of getting his (often notorious) clients out of sticky legal situations.

Nor am I a lawyer either.

It is a real concern for me too re: the initial pre-surveillance questioning stakes.

Will there will be a lot of consideration to the fact GL is what would be considered a sophisticated professional by way of his occupation? His day job was always and meticulously on the record. This is not a child or someone claiming diminished capacity.

Overall, the post surveillance questioning session(s) produced knowledge only an alleged perpetrator could have known = location of the deceased. This is the anchor for the case IMO.

MOO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

As recently as April, Mr Lynn posted on social media that he had been camping at Lake Cobbler, which is about 65km from the Wonnangatta Valley.

Up until his arrest, his Facebook profile suggests he had been enjoying trips and family time over the past 20 months.

Fresh insights into man arrested over missing Victoria campers

Lake Cobbler was created in the 1960s by damming a swamp area in the headwaters of the Dandongadale River.



Lake Cobbler

Deep enough to dump a trailer? Just a thought.

 

[nightrider17]

As recently as April, Mr Lynn posted on social media that he had been camping at Lake Cobbler, which is about 65km from the Wonnangatta Valley.

Up until his arrest, his Facebook profile suggests he had been enjoying trips and family time over the past 20 months.

Fresh insights into man arrested over missing Victoria campers

Lake Cobbler was created in the 1960s by damming a swamp area in the headwaters of the Dandongadale River.

View attachment 398681

Lake Cobbler

Deep enough to dump a trailer? Just a thought.

I think you are onto something right here - it makes sense too - with the previous methods, burning campsite, changing colour of car and lastly submerging things in water - it fits. MOO

 

[Eaglette]

It would be interesting if the evidence shows this was last time RH phone ever pinged. MOO.

I read very recently it WAS the last signal from RHs mobile - just 10 seconds after GLs mobile "signal ping" in same location !

Thanks if someone else could please find the article for Puggo

 

[JudgeJudi]

I read very recently it WAS the last signal from RHs mobile - just 10 seconds after GLs mobile "signal ping" in same location !

Thanks if someone else could please find the article for Puggo

It was a ping on a mobile phone tower that led police to suspect GL

According to police documents submitted to the Court, a security camera snapped four pictures of GL's Nissan Patrol towing a trailer on Great Alpine Road at 9:48am on March 21, 2020.

RH’s phone had connected to a nearby phone tower at Hotham Heights 10 seconds earlier.

While his phone was switched on, police allege RH was dead.

 

[Puggo]

Thanks Eaglette & JudgeJudi!