Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[SouthAussie]

I'm fairly sure the prosecution was the one to ask Robynne Hill about his health.She was asked about his depression, and it was then that she talked about his physical problem. It was quite unexpected. She could have answered without mentioning his penis size.She could have been briefed better.

I think it was Dermot Dann for the defence who asked her ... due to the sequence of the testimony in this article.
I tend to think he had done his homework and knew there were some medical issues at one point in time.

The testimony from her prior to questioning from Dermot Dann was far more case-related. imo


Under questioning from Mr Lynn’s barrister, Dermot Dann KC, Mrs Hill confirmed her late husband had been gifted two firearms after his father retired, saying she’d later handed them into police under a gun amnesty program.
She confirmed a relative of Mr Hill, Gary Hill, had been accidentally killed ...
... told the jury her husband had been on anti-depressants ...
... spent “a couple of weeks” in hospital very depressed ...

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/greg-lynn-trial-jury-told-russell-hills-wife-and-daughter-to-give-evidence/news-story/e69cfd53c351b9dbf870f3e4a3c35c2b#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20think%20something%20must%20have,actually%2C%E2%80%9D%20Mrs%20Hill%20said.

 

[timezone]

Seems the defence is trying to portray Russell and Carol in the most unsympathetic way they can.

 

[browneyes]

I just started following this case, so I apologize for the late question. I read that the police placed recording devices in the defendant’s home. If that’s true, how do they obtain access?

I hate all the gossip about the victims too. It seems so unnecessary. My heartfelt thoughts to the victim’s friends who are here and have shared the real story of their friends.

 

[JBowie]

If that’s true, how do they obtain access?

Usually via a court-issued warrant.

 

[browneyes]

Usually via a court-issued warrant.

Thank you. I meant how did they physically access the house to install the listening devices without anyone knowing.

 

[JBowie]

Thank you. I meant how did they physically access the house to install the listening devices without anyone knowing.

In a word, tradecraft.

 

[JBowie]

A forensic fire investigator has told a murder trial jury how teeth, burnt pieces of bone and a wristwatch were recovered from a remote site more than a year after the disappearance of two campers in Victoria's alpine area.

. . .

Jurors also heard evidence from Mr Xydias that upon examination, the fire that destroyed a campsite at Bucks Camp was likely not an accident.

Human remains found at remote site, 60km from burnt out campsite where campers went missing, court hears

An investigator shares the findings of human remains and personal effects recovered from a remote campsite in Victoria's High Country.

www.abc.net.au

 

[browneyes]

In a word, tradecraft.

I’m sorry, I still don’t understand. But it’s ok.

 

[MIG214222]

In a word, tradecraft.

I’m sorry, I still don’t understand. But it’s ok.

Hi @browneyes,
I also had not heard 'tradecraft' used before, but, according to: Wikipedia, Tradecraft:

qte:
"Tradecraft, within the intelligence community, refers to the techniques, methods, and technologies used in modern espionage (spying) and generally as part of the activity of intelligence assessment. This includes general topics or techniques (dead drops, for example), or the specific techniques of a nation or organization (the particular form of encryption (encoding) used by the National Security Agency, for example)."
endqte

It's a fascinating article, worth a read (imo) - I won't link it because - from memory some of my other posts with Wiki links have been removed, it's easy to find...

Maybe there's another word for Tradecraft in Australia, I've never heard it used in any context, anywhere - related to issues such as being discussed in WS & or this thread.
MOO
Edit added additional "& or this thread."

 

[JBowie]

I’m sorry, I still don’t understand. But it’s ok.

For pretty obvious reasons, police don't publicize their methods for planting listening devices, however plenty of former spies and private eyes have done. Tradecraft is shorthand for the range of techniques used by spies and counter spies.

 

[Cedars]

Thank you. I meant how did they physically access the house to install the listening devices without anyone knowing.

They would just watch for when everyone was out, quickly break in and install the devices.

JMO

 

[Bats]

They would just watch for when everyone was out, quickly break in and install the devices.

JMO

I expect they'd need to be super careful as it could be disastrous if they were found out. I'd say they would have a way to track all of the occupants first and then go in and install other devices.
People are extremely sensitive to change and even the smell of someone else being in the house may be noticable.

 

[timezone]

I think it was Dermot Dann for the defence who asked her ... due to the sequence of the testimony in this article.
I tend to think he had done his homework and knew there were some medical issues at one point in time.

The testimony from her prior to questioning from Dermot Dann was far more case-related. imo


Under questioning from Mr Lynn’s barrister, Dermot Dann KC, Mrs Hill confirmed her late husband had been gifted two firearms after his father retired, saying she’d later handed them into police under a gun amnesty program.
She confirmed a relative of Mr Hill, Gary Hill, had been accidentally killed ...
... told the jury her husband had been on anti-depressants ...
... spent “a couple of weeks” in hospital very depressed ...

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/greg-lynn-trial-jury-told-russell-hills-wife-and-daughter-to-give-evidence/news-story/e69cfd53c351b9dbf870f3e4a3c35c2b#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20think%20something%20must%20have,actually%2C%E2%80%9D%20Mrs%20Hill%20said.

You may be right.. I attended the hearing and remember thinking it was odd that she was asked those questions by the female prosecutor. Also The way the questions were answered took me by surprise.Robynne Hill came across as trying to answer as honestly as she could.

 

[SouthAussie]

Maybe there's another word for Tradecraft in Australia, I've never heard it used in any context, anywhere - related to issues such as being discussed in WS & or this thread.

I think in Australia it is called "police methodology".
In an inquest I am following, they are careful to not reveal police methodology.

imo

 

[browneyes]

I expect they'd need to be super careful as it could be disastrous if they were found out. I'd say they would have a way to track all of the occupants first and then go in and install other devices.
People are extremely sensitive to change and even the smell of someone else being in the house may be noticable.

Not to mention, nosey neighbors.

 

[browneyes]

I think in Australia it is called "police methodology".
In an inquest I am following, they are careful to not reveal police methodology.

imo

Coincidentally, my son is very high up in a federal LE agency. When I asked him tonight, he said, “I can’t tell you.” = ))

 

[discostu]

Coincidentally, my son is very high up in a federal LE agency. When I asked him tonight, he said, “I can’t tell you.” = ))

I think it's quite possible that they did it when they first visited his home to speak with him. I'm sure they'd only need a moment to do it and if there were two officers it would be quite easy for one to excuse themself to use the bathroom etc, or perhaps just linger a little longer in a room when walking through. I'm not sure if they searched his home at any point but I expect they probably did (or at least asked "do you mind if we have a look around") and that would also have given them ample opportunity. They bugged his car too, which also seems quite tricky, although it seems like it was parked outside so it could be that's all they needed..?

I just finished watching a US show called Scandal and there was a lot of hidden cameras & mics in that, and also people doing very sneaky break ins to place them so possibly Cedars is also right lol

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

" .... accused killer admitted he burned the bodies of Mr Hill and his lover Carol Clay with kerosene

Dr Smythe said her opinion was that all the teeth located had come from Mr Hill, but two - a molar and premolar - were able to be matched to his records.

She said there was 'quite significant' damage due to fire, including loss of the crowns and fragmentation."


Also there a couple of clear photos in the article of the burned items from the campsite laid out on a table, and seemingly identified where possible.

Burnt teeth linked to missing camper

Teeth linked to allegedly murdered camper Russell Hill were located in bushland, a jury has been told, as his accused killer admitted he burned the bodies with kerosene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JBowie]

Dermot Dann KC, said his client had made a 'series of terrible choices' fearing he would be wrongly blamed.

IMO: He moved and burned the bodues because he wamted to take control of the narrative.

. . .

Burnt items including a camping stove, clothing, bedding, gas bottles, a solar panel and a car mirror were identified within the tent. [bbm]

IMO: why would he burn the mirror when leaving it on/by the vehicle should support his story of a ricochet?

. . .

Prosecutors allege Mr Hill was killed first, likely after a dispute with Mr Lynn over the former's drone, and Ms Clay was shot dead second as a witness.

IMO: this is what actually happened.

Burnt teeth linked to missing camper

Teeth linked to allegedly murdered camper Russell Hill were located in bushland, a jury has been told, as his accused killer admitted he burned the bodies with kerosene.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Justoneoftheguests]

Burnt items including a camping stove, clothing, bedding, gas bottles, a solar panel and a car mirror were identified within the tent. [bbm]

IMO: why would he burn the mirror when leaving it on/by the vehicle should support his story of a ricochet?

He possibly wasn’t planning to “support his story”, he was planning not to be caught.