Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bats said:
I think it's actually been the prosecution that have done that.
Click to expand...
Yes, it certainly appears that way. Maybe I'm losing the plot, but I can't quite work out why they would do that (whilst apparently putting a fair bit of effort into doing so to boot, seemingly giving some advantage to the defence). Can anyone enlighten me? TIA
 
TrunkImagine said:
I wonder how bugs would be placed in homes now that more people have CCTV around the perimeter. Even with careful surveillance of who's home, a ring doorbell or camera could alert the person to someone entering.

My guess is if the suspect is renting they could pretend it's landlord maintenance. Maybe even those door to door people with the free government supplied electricity meters or door seals.

Would love to know!
Click to expand...
I don't think many Australians have CCTV yet for their properties - nobody i know, anyway.
 
jjleroche said:
Yes, it certainly appears that way. Maybe I'm losing the plot, but I can't quite work out why they would do that (whilst apparently putting a fair bit of effort into doing so to boot, seemingly giving some advantage to the defence). Can anyone enlighten me? TIA
Click to expand...

I think that sometimes the prosecution has to get things into testimony before the defence does.

So the prosecution has called witnesses who can testify about the length of Carol and Russell's relationship, that it was a kind and loving relationship, they enjoyed each others company, and that Carol seemed settled with it now because it also allowed her independence. (all heard in the testimony)

I think the defence cross-examination tried to bring out more salacious details.

But the defence couldn't give the impression that Russell and Carol's relationship was a sleazy affair. This was a long-term loving relationship, as the prosecution has showed.

Russell seemed to be trying to walk the line between not hurting his wife - because she had been ill at some stage, bore his children, they had entangled finances - and spending his time with another woman that he loved.

I think their relationship likely needed to be addressed so the jury could understand why they were together out there in the first place.

imo
 
Last edited:
Russell Hill’s wife Robyn told the jury her husband seemed happy as he left home the morning of March 19, telling her he was going camping alone and wasn’t sure for how long.

Instead he drove from their Drouin home to the Melbourne suburb of Pakenham, picking Mrs Clay up for the trip.

The jury heard the Hills had first met in 1968 and tied the knot two years later.

Mrs Hill said she’d met Ms Clay about the same time, with Mr Hill describing her as his “first cousin”.

For decades she believed they were related, even going on a few holidays with Mrs Clay and her then-husband, Lynton, in the early 2000s but began to feel something was “strange” when the two would go off for walks alone.
 
SouthAussie said:
I think that sometimes the prosecution has to get things into testimony before the defence does.

So the prosecution has called witnesses who can testify about the length of Carol and Russell's relationship, that it was a kind and loving relationship, they enjoyed each others company, and that Carol seemed settled with it now because it also allowed her independence. (all heard in the testimony)

I think the defence cross-examination tried to bring out more salacious details.

But the defence couldn't give the impression that Russell and Carol's relationship was a sleazy affair. This was a long-term loving relationship, as the prosecution has showed.

Russell seemed to be trying to walk the line between not hurting his wife - because she had been ill at some stage, bore his children, they had entangled finances - and spending his time with another woman that he loved.

I think their relationship likely needed to be addressed so the jury could understand why they were together out there in the first place.

imo
Click to expand...
Thank you SouthAussie. That does make sense now. I appreciate your insight.
 
Kemug said:
I don't think many Australians have CCTV yet for their properties - nobody i know, anyway.
Click to expand...
I think this could depend on where you live (& possibly other circumstances)? I know plenty of folks around me with cameras - inside and outside - or doorbell cameras these days, whether they’re for security or to keep an eye on their pets. I definitely don’t think it’s the majority at this stage but given that it’s generally affordable and easy enough to DIY these days it’s becoming much more common. :)

As a person with something pretty significant to hide (and likely a lot of disposable income) I wouldn’t be surprised if Lynn had cameras (or at least a less fancy security system) at his place in Caroline Springs.

Having said all that, when I remember that this all went down almost 4 years ago, I think it does make it much less likely that CCTV would have been an issue.
 
discostu said:
I think this could depend on where you live (& possibly other circumstances)? I know plenty of folks around me with cameras - inside and outside - or doorbell cameras these days, whether they’re for security or to keep an eye on their pets. I definitely don’t think it’s the majority at this stage but given that it’s generally affordable and easy enough to DIY these days it’s becoming much more common. :)

As a person with something pretty significant to hide (and likely a lot of disposable income) I wouldn’t be surprised if Lynn had cameras (or at least a less fancy security system) at his place in Caroline Springs.

Having said all that, when I remember that this all went down almost 4 years ago, I think it does make it much less likely that CCTV would have been an issue.
Click to expand...
I have a security camera system on my property in rural Victoria.

But then I'm paranoid.
 
discostu said:
I think this could depend on where you live (& possibly other circumstances)? I know plenty of folks around me with cameras - inside and outside - or doorbell cameras these days, whether they’re for security or to keep an eye on their pets. I definitely don’t think it’s the majority at this stage but given that it’s generally affordable and easy enough to DIY these days it’s becoming much more common. :)

As a person with something pretty significant to hide (and likely a lot of disposable income) I wouldn’t be surprised if Lynn had cameras (or at least a less fancy security system) at his place in Caroline Springs.

Having said all that, when I remember that this all went down almost 4 years ago, I think it does make it much less likely that CCTV would have been an issue.
Click to expand...
I live within 15 minutes drive of GL and lots of properties in this area have cameras. Still interested in how police get around CCTV now that it's more common
 
Kemug said:
I don't think many Australians have CCTV yet for their properties - nobody i know, anyway.
Click to expand...
The are many in Sydney city and suburbs. NSW Police frequently request and use residential CCTV in relation to incidents that occur on streets.

Also, these days many people have dash cams that record continuously (loop recording) whether the vehicle is in motion or parked.

For example in the Melissa Caddick disappearance case:

Almost three weeks since businesswoman Melissa Caddick disappeared, police are trawling through CCTV and appealing for dashcam footage from nearby properties of her multimillion-dollar home in Dover Heights to find the missing woman.

. . .

Investigators are appealing to motorists who may have dash-cam vision around the Dover Heights area between 6.30pm on November 11 and 8am on November 12, to contact police.

"At this point in time, we don't have Melissa on the footage (obtained from the public to date), but we still have hundreds of hours of footage to go through," Inspector Atkins said.


www.smh.com.au

Police trawl through CCTV in search for missing Sydney businesswoman

Almost three weeks since Melissa Caddick disappeared, police are appealing for dashcam footage from nearby properties of her multimillion-dollar home in Dover Heights to find the missing woman.
www.smh.com.au www.smh.com.au
 
I thought I read that they had bugged inside the house. Interesting if true. I guess they could have gone undercover as a meter reader, tradie, or something in High Vis. Now one would assume special teams reside inside the police that would deal with such matters. A detective used to live down the road from me. I noted him one day coming home in High Vis tradie like gear, with a plumbing logo on the back. Obviously he was casing someone out.

Would love to hear how they bugged his house. We don’t really hear anything from the public in regards to a police person being in my house randomly, so incredible detail must go into it to avoid suspicion

Technology in the last couple of years has really advanced in this space so it would likely be harder and harder for them to do this without some cheap internal or external camera picking up a stranger in the house bugging it.
 
Skyboy90 said:
I thought I read that they had bugged inside the house. Interesting if true. I guess they could have gone undercover as a meter reader, tradie, or something in High Vis. Now one would assume special teams reside inside the police that would deal with such matters. A detective used to live down the road from me. I noted him one day coming home in High Vis tradie like gear, with a plumbing logo on the back. Obviously he was casing someone out.

Would love to hear how they bugged his house. We don’t really hear anything from the public in regards to a police person being in my house randomly, so incredible detail must go into it to avoid suspicion

Technology in the last couple of years has really advanced in this space so it would likely be harder and harder for them to do this without some cheap internal or external camera picking up a stranger in the house bugging it.
Click to expand...

I had an ex boyfriend who was a police officer and regularly had the police called on him when he was undercover.
 
browneyes said:
Thank you. I meant how did they physically access the house to install the listening devices without anyone knowing.
Click to expand...
in this day and age you do not need to access inside the property. listening devices can be anywhere. They can listen from down the road.
they also had listening devices in his car and if I am not mistaken thats where most of the evidence has come from
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 181 more.
Total: 1,196 (members: 182, guests: 1,014)

Online statistics

Members online
182
Guests online
1,014
Total visitors
1,196
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
596,543
Messages
18,049,301
Members
230,028
Latest member
Cynichick
Back
Top