Australia - Tiahleigh Palmer, 12, slain, Pimpama River, Qld, 30 Oct 2015 #2 *Arrests*

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I haven't worked in a place like DOCS but I've worked in a department dealing with young offenders. It had case workers and psychologists.
All I've ever heard about DOCS is that it's a horrible, stressful place to work with a high turnover of workers. I can imagine how awful it would be having responsibility for children's lives and not enough resources to do the job properly. It's probably the good ones who resign.
 
I thought it most likely that Tia's murder was an unplanned spontaneous event..now I doubt that. .. or else Thorburn is the consummate actor and cynic.. there is something so calculated in this entire venture, the driving of the car to the school the next day.. and let's face it, that is only a few hours after he has murdered her, either alone or with Trent, , and taken her body out in that same car to the river, alone or with Trent, and cleaned up the car after, and the area in the house , alone, or with Trent. Then a short break while he has breakfast, and does a few chores, he has to time his performance to the second.. neither too late, nor too early.

In Psychology, he now has to enter an entirely concocted way of life. Without any rehearsal, or previous experience as far as is known, he and Julene and Trent and Josh have to play the designated parts of baffled and grieving foster father, fostermother, fosterbrother. Instantly, and done against all their own inner knowledge.

And it's got to be right. When that call comes, which his psyche is expecting, and his logic mind has to pretend it's unexpected, he has to react exactly right, exactly perfect, he has to do and say what a foster father of a missing child would do and say. So what would a frantic foster father do? he would begin searching, but what would a guilty foster father do who knew this child's body was decomposing on the banks of the Pimpano River?.. he would document every move he made in regard to the search.. where he went, what time, who with, which direction, so being a man caught up in two 'realities'.. he does both. Searches, and records his own search efforts.

What else would a frantic fosterfather do?. he would beg anyone , everyone to try and remember and think when they saw Tia, or know anything about Tia, and what a terrific private powerful thrill to take it up a notch and allow his pretend foster father to get a bit indignant. 'send her back.. back to where she belongs.'.... playing the part of the hard done by ordinary guy...

All the time he's doing this he has to maintain not only his own parallel worlds, but his wife's , and his sons. It astonishes me that the entire 4 of them entered into this double performance.. in public, portraying themselves as unfortunate grieving carers,.. in private, what?.. 1 murderer/liar, 1 sexual deviant / liar , 1 perverted liar, and another perverted liar?.. how did that work out when the front door closed on that house?

And so far, it's just the tip of the iceberg, I reckon. no one can do all this without a lifetimes practice, truly. I don't believe that he , and they, suddenly knew what to do. ... that out of the blue , in response to a murder done in the house they eat and sleep in, they produced this flawless performance.. Its been a long time coming.

my opinion.

Awesome poste (as always) Trooper.

I don't believe for a minute that all this has come about easily, just in the flick of Rick's *^^#} fingers, since suddenly he / they are faced with this 'dilemma'.

IMO, over the years RT has honed his craft of cunning, deception & self gratification. His co-hort in LT leaves me gasping - I cannot cop any plea of 'I didn't know' as Tia apparently reported to her of Trent ... and I cannot in any way forgive these women who continue to allow this behaviour.

Yes, I get 'fear', I get 'scared' - where do I go, how do I feed the kids, oh yes, feed the horses etc etc ... Yes, I get it, I know about it...

I do hope she gets some decency and courage - and I did read that she & older brother have had some things to say - which us perhaps why they are out ...
 
There's some serious sleuthing going on here. Just drank 3 cups of tea while taking in the posts since I last logged on.

Awesome digging on previous whereabout using sensis, ABNs. Disturbing there are recent arrests in the same area.

I imagine they used their animals for income, dog and horse breeding. Plus perhaps money laundering through the small businesses, it seems there were several at least. Some serious knowledge of book keeping would of been necessary.

Apologies for ruffling feathers regarding labelling TT a paedo.

I'll make use of IMO in future.

IMO they are ALL paedophiles.

I had not personally heard the term hebophiles before, thanks Freya for that info. Interesting.

Seems these deviants had a wide appetite and age was no barrier. 4y.o, 11y.o, 12y.o and now another 'teen' although not sure what harm was inflicted on this victim. Also other children in their care interviewed. Speak up, little ones - the world is listening!

Just want to say that Aussie school systems aren't always operating at functional levels, especially where multi level reporting comes into play. Tiah may have spoken to staff. Wheels turn slowly, get lost in red tape. Although they are meant to some schools dont have counsellors or nurses. I know first hand of a school who did not have a nurse for 6 months, then she was employed only a few hours a day. Cost cutting is on all fronts. Sounds like Tiahs concerns were readily dismissed by DOCS, a reputation as a difficult child, a run away and a liar. We've known kids to be publicly labelled as 'liars' to the entire school. Real concerns were not invesrigated or took months. My point is some of these kids really do fall through the cracks with high staff turn over, constant relief teachers and kids getting lost in the masses. The amount of admin work on teachers shoulders means genuine face to face time is limited. While each department is finger pointing the next government department I think Au state by state school systems warrant a light shined upon their part in this. Teachers are in demand. It's one of the easist degrees to obtain. Our schools are flooded with newly graduated under prepared teachers and volunteers - all you need is a BlueCard to apply 😨

Also did J & R choose the school for Tiah? Most likely catchment. Did they know the teachers? Usually the culture is built principal down. Not implying anything, just worth considering IMO.

To me it sounds like Tiah was desperate for help, her behaviour paints the picture of a child in distress, desperate to escape. Grandma says she could leave anytime but previous foster family says they couldn't get her back. Tiah was restricted.

I hope more Children are listened to. Let Tiahs death (and others we don't hear so much about) not be in vain.

RIP Tiah and strength to your Mum, Whanau and family. May your Angel Tiahleigh be forever dancing and shining light into the darkness.

Just looking for the multi - thanks button Halibut :)
 
Yes, I am quoting my own post. ;)

Marden HS did acknowledge Tia in second newletter following her death (27th November)

Interesting to note that the recent edition (16th November) advertises Holiday activities at PCYC.

Interesting to note PCYC often takes young offenders for rehabilitation. They also encourage suvivors of sexual abuse to attend their programs. Worrisome combination,

"Nothing to Fear, PCYC tells parents." The fact that this article was run raises eyebrows!!!

http://m.tweeddailynews.com.au/news/apn-nothing-to-fear-pcyc-tells/145281/


http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/p...cent-dealing-with-a-child-20101228-198zi.html

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/476984/windale-pcyc-volunteer-raped-boys-court/

https://aussiesexoffenders.wordpress.com/tag/pcyc-volunteer/

http://apo.org.au/resource/participation-pcyc-young-offender-programs-and-re-offending

The list goes on....

Numerous hits on Mako with PCYC involement.[/QUOTE}

IMO, perhaps first step investigation should be of Marsden HS - who on earth is the seemingly vague & unempathetic Principal there ?
 
Who dobbed? Someone dobbed on dear old dad. I mean if Ol' Rick isn't speaking then how does LE know it was him who murdered Tiahleigh.
Anyone of them had access to the keys of that car.

The police must have evidence of some kind. Whatever is is, thy only obtained it recently as per the seizure of the vehicle.

Probably the whole family alibied up, alibied each other right from the start. Hard from a police perspective to find that wedge.
But they found it finally. Someone talked. I personally don't think it was one of the Big Four. They were bound in blood. Family code of honour. If none of us talks, we all walk boys.
 
Cant you see that they were manipulated?

(In an ideal system) the job of the case worker is to investigate so they should have the resources to be above manipulation. I think they are time-poor and swamped with files, and probably most kids do turn out to be runaways. But their job is to check on the welfare of the child.
I had a job answering phones for a home care service, and there was one woman who rang constantly to announce that she had overdosed and I needed to call her ex-husband in Tasmania and tell him it was all his fault she was dead. When I said I would call an ambulance, she would accuse me of resorting to band-aid solutions. It was well-known that her overdose was just herbal pills and we were all sick to death of her grandstanding every single time. But we still followed through every single time, As my supervisor said, plenty of people have died accidentally when threatening suicide. And plenty of young kids have got themselves into trouble running away from home, and kids who are desperate to find somewhere else to live generally have a good reason.
I think these case workers are too exhausted to think straight and but there should be strict protocols in place that they have to follow so they can't let someone fall through the cracks just because every other child that week has cried wolf.
 
I disagree, vehemently, adamantly... at least two case workers have been criminally negligent here.. the one who put Tia in a house with 3 unoccupied grown adult men, Insert Correction Fact Here (2 x adult males, 1 x 17 year old and 1 adult female) and the one who claimed Tia was a liar and always running away without enquiring into first causes..

those case workers have no place in this organisation. best they go and get work where negligence and arrogance don't leave vulnerable children at the mercy of murderers.. they can be baristers, , or check out chicks, something that doesn't carry the responsibility inherent in this job.

I've just highlighted above in red the actual facts of the family situation that she was placed into. So are you telling me that adult males cant or shouldn't be foster parents of female children, are you labeling all male foster parents and male foster brothers as potential pedophiles.

On the second point I would also believe the likely hood of many foster children who would tell lies and many run away. Why should it be a criminal offence if in this case the case worker got it wrong. It's very easy to judge in hindsight.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Tiah came from a Foster family that had a FM, FD, FS and FB. Perhaps it was decided that because she had strong maternal role models (her mother, FM and grandma), and she apparently thrived in the foster environment she was in, that moving her to a home with nearly the same structure, was in her best interest for continuity? Especially given the seemly close relationship the Thorburns had with their nieces. Obviously it was definitely the wrong move, however on paper they looked the goods.
 
Trooper, I read that twice and composed many (about seven) long-winded responses in my mind. However I have seen enough in my life (except that agrophobia prevents me from going to the mall, and hard work keeps me away from Centrelink), to have only two words for this foster family.

GENETICALLY AMORAL

It is a state of being which is acknowledged by our social service employees, across all spectrums of job descriptions...if you listen carefully and have their trust.

and Can I say Possumheart, as far as I am concerned, as a society we are grateful for You and You alike who pickup & get on, despite & inspire of - the GENETICALLY AMORAL who still seem to be manage to skulk safely amongst us and cause so much harm and heartbreak.

Time to bring back 'floggings' ... IMO
 
What I have gleaned so far about the arrest:
Rick and family barricaded themselves in at the strawberry farm. Firies extracted them and they were handcuffed and removed. Rick and Trent went to the watchouse, whilst Julene and Josh went for further questioning and engaged a lawyer. Rick wouldn't speak and somehow got enough meds to flop about on the floor and get taken to hospital. I understand that those meds could have been provided by someone trying to protect a bigger bunch of ugly from being exposed. Please correct me where I am wrong.

But what? FSQ mistakes? It is true and enquiry is being made into how he even has access to pills to take. The police officer doing the press meeting the other day did skirt around the issue delicately, which led me to believe it's quite a serious thing.
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...n/news-story/0128de73ad87cd4b7af8ce9555f47693

TRENT Thorburn has been bashed twice in prison, with inmates shouting “pretty boy” and “kill him” as they cheered his attackers on.

Things are starting to get ugly for Trent.

I was expecting this to happen. The thing is, we need TT to be alive and well for when this goes to court. If the inmates kill or maim him before then, it is not doing Tialeigh any favours. All four of this moronic family need to be charged and sentenced for their part in Tialeigh's neglect and murder. Once that is done and on record I really don't think anyone in Australia, and New Zealand for that matter, will give a stuff what happens to them.

When news of TT's assault reaches his mother and brother I can imagine they would be feeling a tad nervous. RT on the other hand would be wishing he hadn't swallowed all of his pills in one go.
 
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe Tiah came from a Foster family that had a FM, FD, FS and FB. Perhaps it was decided that because she had strong maternal role models (her mother, FM and grandma), and she apparently thrived in the foster environment she was in, that moving her to a home with nearly the same structure, was in her best interest for continuity? Especially given the seemly close relationship the Thorburns had with their nieces. Obviously it was definitely the wrong move, however on paper they looked the goods.

Sorry Kitsune, I've missed the bit about the Thorburns' having a close relationship with their nieces. Are you able to post a link please?
 
Trent Thorburn bashed twice in prison, with inmates cheering his attackers on

September 26, 2016 11:00pm
KATE KYRIACOU CHIEF CRIME REPORTER

TRENT Thorburn has been bashed twice in prison, with inmates shouting “pretty boy” and “kill him” as they cheered his attackers on.

The 19-year-old dancer has been in custody since Tuesday after he was arrested, along with his father, mother and brother, over the death of 12-year-old Tiahleigh Palmer last October.

His father Rick Thorburn — Tiahleigh’s foster father — is accused of murdering her after discovering his son had been having sex with the young girl in the family’s Chambers Flat home.

Police will allege he killed Tiahleigh out of fear Trent would go to jail.

The Courier-Mail can reveal an ambulance was called to Arthur Gorrie Correctional Centre on Sunday afternoon after one of Thorburn’s attackers was injured in an altercation with guards.

It is understood inmates are targeting Thorburn, calling him “little pretty boy”, and encouraging each other to bash him on sight.

Thorburn is being kept in an area of the jail for high-risk prisoners, including accused paedophiles and high-profile inmates.

He was attacked on Sunday morning but was later returned to the same area.

He was attacked again by two prisoners in the afternoon, with a large crowd of inmates cheering them on and shouting for them to kill him.

It is understood the two inmates who attacked Thorburn were physically restrained by guards.

Queensland Ambulance Service confirmed it responded to a call from Arthur Gorrie at 3pm but would provide no further details.

However, it is believed one of the men was taken to Princess Alexandra’s secure unit with a suspected broken leg.

Thorburn was treated at the prison infirmary and was said to have “scratch marks” and injuries to his face and neck. It is understood his injuries are not serious.

It is not known whether the dancer has now been moved to a more secure section of the prison or if he were returned to the place where he was twice attacked.

He is said to be sharing a cell with another young inmate and is described as a person who has “no chance of defending himself”.


Read more.
 
Sorry Kitsune, I've missed the bit about the Thorburns' having a close relationship with their nieces. Are you able to post a link please?

Sorry Makara, a link I can't post, this was observations from SM when family accounts were active, there were quite a few pictures maybe the news papers picked them up. The pictures taken also had comments written by RT on them, those comments made by him were enough to raise my eyebrows. I did put a post on the last thread saying that I belived there would be more victims closer to home. Should I edited my post to say moo?
 
Does anyone know what kind of qualifications those people that work in child protective services have? Are they even qualified to work with children in these types of situations where children have come from abuse & neglect in their homes, and then need placement in more loving and healthy environments? Are they qualified child psychologists to give those poor children ongoing therapy because of the issues they have etc.? I mean who actually determines what those children really need?


I have worked there for 20 years retired now. It's always been the same under resourced under funded and known as a difficult portfolio for ministers. In the old days only social workers were employed, and their caseload was made up of child protection, fostering, and juvenile justice. Since then they have specialised teams for child protection etc. We also used to be responsible for assessing foster parents and training them. This has now been outsourced to many different groups. Then in it's wisdom the department decided that anyone with a degree could apply to be child safety officers. In my opinion things started to get worse (I had a guy with a degree in photography as my team leader). Absolutely hopeless. Since the Carmody report recommendations have been made that only social workers and psychology majors or other equivalent welfare degrees can work as child safety officers.
There is always a chronic lack of staff, and often staff are inappropriately acting in a senior position. I knew a Team Leader who had 5 baby deaths. I never lost a child thankfully.
At one time I was being supervised by a person who had just graduated!!! When you act in a position you still have to carry your quota of around 25 children, as well as doing the acting job. How could that possibly be effective work? How could she possibly supervise me (a rare event anyway) when I had been much higher positions than her) I ended up with PTSD and my career was over. I sued the government and won. I have not been able to work since, but my daughter works there thankfully not at Browns Plains. Doesn't have a brilliant reputation...
When it is time for Tiahleigh's Coroners Report, you will be able to read the findings and recommendations. Coroners sometimes name and shame the workers.
To answer your question about therapy etc. no the workers are case managers and they contract outside workers for whatever needs to be met for the child. Regular meetings are assumed to take place regarding the child, so everyone is on the same page. We have no time for therapy, but work in therapeutic ways. The child's needs etc. are assessed by the child protection worker in the first instance, and we are well trained in that aspect. If there is concern regarding immediate harm, the worker must first explain it to the TLeader, for permission to remove the child, and the magistrate for a Temporary Order until full assessments can be made. In terms of placements, they are thin on the ground especially for pre-teens and teens. Recently a facility for very vulnerable teens was closed down with nowhere for the kids to go. 3 of those kids have since committed suicide. Some kids can't bear living in families, others like a 7 year old requiring 24 hour care because she is actively suicidal needs to be somewhere safe.
Unfortunately the resources are just not there.
 
I am a bit puzzled as to why Tia had to be in care still. The mum had younger and more vulnerable children so why didn't they just put her there? She wanted it, mum wanted it, and it was a re-unification case anyway. I don't understand why just didn't happen.
 
Sorry Makara, a link I can't post, this was observations from SM when family accounts were active, there were quite a few pictures maybe the news papers picked them up. The pictures taken also had comments written by RT on them, those comments made by him were enough to raise my eyebrows. I did put a post on the last thread saying that I belived there would be more victims closer to home. Should I edited my post to say moo?

No need to apologise, it's all good. The information coming out in this case is fast moving and I thought I may have missed something. More to the point, I'm concerned about the nieces you mentioned, especially in view of the Thorburn's track record to date!
 
I haven't worked in a place like DOCS but I've worked in a department dealing with young offenders. It had case workers and psychologists.
All I've ever heard about DOCS is that it's a horrible, stressful place to work with a high turnover of workers. I can imagine how awful it would be having responsibility for children's lives and not enough resources to do the job properly. It's probably the good ones who resign.

The average life span of work in Child Safety is 8 months. Horrifying.
 
No need to apologise, it's all good. The information coming out in this case is fast moving and I thought I may have missed something. More to the point, I'm concerned about the nieces you mentioned, especially in view of the Thorburn's track record to date!
It's very fast moving, I too am concerned, which is why I stated earlier that maybe the cousin had reasons not coming forward sooner, and we should not be quick to judge. Most of this case played out on SM , which I was fast to look at, as it was unfolding, in the public arena. I am just trying to be careful so I don't break any rules here.
 
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