Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I have to wonder, how often do people choose bleach as a method for suicide? Sure, it is a chemical that can easily be found in most households but my mind first thinks of it as an easier method of destroying evidence than choosing it to commit suicide. Bleach poisoning has very ugly side effects and if the girls were poisoned by it, they would most likely be found elsewhere in the house or on the floor, in a more awkward position. Not just lying there peacefully in their beds.

Another point is the smell. Was bleach used to cover the smell of the two decomposing bodies? How come none of the neighbors complained about the smell sooner?

I know of people who have used / failed with that method ~ it’s worth researching if you’re curious as it’s not reliable and usually causes excruciating pain and internal injury but not death. People who try it often use a second method to end the pain. Also methods like that and also say weed killer that is way more quickly and deadly are still slow and cause searing pain. I don’t think anyone would be laying on their bed looking as if asleep

 

[bfew]

I am guessing that (so far) the police have not been able to find proof that anyone else entered the apartment. With checking for prints being one of the tools the police have used in their determination.

A trained pro would usually not leave any traces of them entering or exiting a premises.

 

[bfew]

but they didn’t have any help of family to step in and help out.

We don't know that for sure.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

A trained pro would usually not leave any traces of them entering or exiting a premises.

indeed not, even just an average bumbling fool murderer might manage to put gloves on or avoid touching surfaces or … maybe they laid the girls on their beds, put crosses for them, had a really good clean up with a ton of bleach and walked out. They would not be to know the cctv wouldn’t capture them or be erased so they probably covered their face / head. Motorcycle helmet maybe ? Look like a delivery person ?

 

[bfew]

Another point is the smell. Was bleach used to cover the smell of the two decomposing bodies? How come none of the neighbors complained about the smell sooner?

Evidence of someone(s) entering the unit after death to assist mask the smell would be what an independent Coroner would likely require investigating.

We don't know whether any of the neighbours, or any workmen in the apartment complained about the smell, or even noticed a smell.

Even if some of the neighbours noticed a smell, they might have not raised it with the building manager or their leasing agent.

Or even if they raised it with their leasing agent, it might not have resulted in any attempt to enter the unit to investigate.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don’t know how old their building is but maybe a fairly new concrete build. If so, and the door is fairly airtight, as many are to prevent spread of fire or smoke fumes, smell doesnt really spread. I live in such a building and can’t imagine knowing someone in a nearby apartment is deceased. Sadly

 

[UnDiluted7]

Not seeing it specifically mentioned, but I wonder whether the change in their financial circumstances was simply linked to prolonged Covid-19 lockdowns in Sydney. As far as I am aware (as a Sydney resident and essential worker), traffic controllers would have been considered essential workers, but during the pandemic, it is entirely possible the company they worked for lost work or needed to shed staff.

Traffic controller jobs are reasonably well-paid positions here, but incur long hours (day/night shift work) and can be pretty quick to onboard/offload staff pending work contracts. That would also explain the registered ABN's which meant they were likely working as independent contractors and did not have the security of full-time employment.

I think this could quite easily explain them struggling financially toward the end, and also their promise that "money was coming" to the landlord if they were expecting to re-commence work.

 

[bfew]

I don’t know how old their building is

Approx. 5 years old.

Possibly with some outstanding flammable cladding issues too (all that red exterior), that might have added to the deceased sisters existing fears and mental health

426/314 Canterbury Road Canterbury NSW 2193 Sold Prices and Statistics

Free property sold price and listing details for 426/314 Canterbury Road Canterbury NSW 2193 from Australia's property data experts.

www.propertyvalue.com.au

Year Built 2017

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Approx. 5 years old.

Possibly with some outstanding flammable cladding issues too (all that red exterior), that might have added to the deceased sisters existing fears and mental health

426/314 Canterbury Road Canterbury NSW 2193 Sold Prices and Statistics

Free property sold price and listing details for 426/314 Canterbury Road Canterbury NSW 2193 from Australia's property data experts.

www.propertyvalue.com.au

oh wow I thought only us Brits were subjected to flammable cladding ~ how terrifying

 

[bfew]

I think this could quite easily explain them struggling financially toward the end

If they were on five year student visas from 2017, and were on bridging visas (as reported) at some point this year, their ability to find work with their imminent return to Saudi, or being granted asylum in Australia or elsewhere and having to quickly move country, or return home as a result of this, might have resulted in there employer/workplace seeing them as a risk and their work ending. With attempts to find alternative work all that harder, given their likely visa status.

 

[UnDiluted7]

D

If they were on five year student visas from 2017, and were on bridging visas (as reported) at some point this year, their ability to find work with their imminent return to Saudi, or being granted asylum in Australia or elsewhere and having to quickly move country, or return home as a result of this, might have resulted in there employer/workplace seeing them as a risk and their work ending. With attempts to find alternative work all that harder, given their likely visa status.

Definitely possible.

I just don't see anything from anyone in here which backs up suspicions of murder/honour killing or anything like that. I felt this was a suicide or murder/suicide early on and everything that has come since then pushes me further in that direction.

 

[bfew]

oh wow I thought only us Brits were subjected to flammable cladding ~ how terrifying

Bayside Council issues Cladding Rectification Notices on 14 buildings

The buildings identified with combustible cladding include office buildings, mixed retail and residential buildings and residential flat buildings.

www.theleader.com.au

Canterbury-Bankstown has 87 buildings on the register.

https://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/FINAL%20REPORT%20-%20Building%20Regulation%20CEC.pdf

PERFORMANCE AUDIT Building regulation: combustible external cladding 13 APRIL 2022 NEW SOUTH WALES AUDITOR-GENERAL’S REPORT

 

[Spartygirl]

Wednesday saw the introduction of new theories regarding the puzzling case of Asra Abdallah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal, 23, who were found inside their Canterbury unit in Sydney’s southwest in June.

Detectives believe the pair intended to kill themselves because bottles of chemicals like bleach and other substances were discovered next to their bodies in separate bedrooms.

Initial toxicology findings revealed that the women’s bodies contained traces of the substances discovered in the bedrooms.

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“There’s no indication of anyone else being in the unit ... no forced entry. It really does appear to be a tragic suicide,” a senior police source told The Telegraph.

A bottle of bleach, non-perishable food items and clothing were reportedly among the items found in the bedrooms.

Tragic twist in case of Saudi sisters found dead in Sydney unit

Despite several strange turns coming to light, little remains known about the sisters - but police have a leading theory.

7news.com.au

*eta:
It's also been revealed a black BMW coupe seized after the women's bodies were found remains in a police holding yard.

The car is expected to be sold to recover debts owed to the women's landlord after they stopped paying rent ten weeks before their fully clothed but decomposing bodies were found. bbm

Saudi Alsehli sisters died as part of suicide, NSW Police claims

Fresh theories emerged on Wednesday about the baffling case of Asra Abdallah Alsehli, 24, and Amaal, 23, who were found inside their Sydney unit in June.

www.dailymail.co.uk

BBM
OMG---bleach and such,,,what an awful way to go

I am starting to think their monetary problems (not able to pay all the back rent, etc) and worries of someone tampering with food cumulated into this sad, tragic ending for them.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

But if they were suicidal from poverty why hadn’t they sold that expensive car ? Which transpires to be their own ? And I thought they had some money ?

More likely suicidal from loss of residency status ? Or mental health crisis ? Maybe not paying rent was an act of being chaotic or disorganised ? <modsnip>

 

[bfew]

More likely suicidal from loss of residency status ? Or mental health crisis ?

Or their application(s) for Asylum in Australia or another Country having been unsuccessful, or being advised that they were all likely to be unsuccessful.

 

[Arboreal]

https://twitter.com/hksisters6

It's quite confusing because the story sounds identical. The one obvious change is their hairstyles, but I could imagine if they were fleeing they might cut their hair and probably don't have access to Saudi family money for beauty (like hair straightening).
I just find it a little too coincidental that they were the exact same age, both sisters with the same age gap and both escaped in the same month from the same place. There have only been 80 or so Saudi women applying for asylum over a several year period.

Thanks Garcelle. It seems to me the twitter link and other information demonstrates fairly conclusively that the two women who died in Sydney (Asra and Amaal Alsehli) are not/not identical with the two who (Reem & Rawan) were intercepted in Hong Kong and escaped from there to a third country.
Dates of travel and twitter usage
1. The twitter link - https://twitter.com/hksisters6 - takes you to a twitter page that says "Joined February 2019". This refers to the flight of Reem & Rawan. [Not their real names.]
2. On 26 March, a person wrote on the hksisters6 account: "Now we’re in safe place, and we would like to live our life without fear. We’ll live normally away from the media. And again THANK YOU Be strong!"
3. According to a CNN report - which details the flight of Reem & Rawan / hksisters6 and is worth reading - Reem & Rawan began their escape on September 6, 2018.
4. The Alsehli sisters came to Australia in 2017 and were living safely in Australia by 2018.
Ages
According to multiple press reports - from reputable sources - at the time of their death, Asra Alsehli was 24 and Amaal Alsehli was 23. When they came to Australia in 2017, Asra Alsehli was 19 and Amaal Alsehli was 18. According to the CNN report cited above, Reem was 20 & Rawan was 18 in 2018 when they made their escape. That is a two year age difference. For the Alsehli sisters, the age gap in one year.
So what do we have:
1. their ages are different, in terms of birth gap and also at the time of their escape.
2. the dates of their escape are different - in fact, the Alsehli sisters were already in Australia.
The similarities are: they are female, they are human and they are Saudi, and trying to flee repression based on religious mores.
Conclusion: They are not the same sisters and there is nothing "coincidental". This false identification.
Given that the claim the Alsehli sisters escaped via HK, was based on this false identification,there is, on this basis, no reason to conclude the Alsehli sisters came to Australia via HK. They may have - the Australian government will have the records - but this false identification is not sufficient to conclude they travelled to Australia via HK; or that they had $5,000 with them.
The Sydney Morning Herald - already cited - tried to set this false identification straight, but other less reputable sites, that do not fact check, continued to repeat this falsehood. Simple research and basic analysis would have shown the journalists that the identification of the two sets of sisters was wrong.

 

[branmuffin]

I really can't imagine living in an apartment where somebody was murdered/committed suicide and the corpses were lying for a month.
Changing the floor sounds macabre to me.

I would not sleep a wink.

But, I guess for the landlord "business is business" and maybe somebody unaware will rent this place.

MOO

Potentianl renters aren't unaware. It appears that in Australia a listing agent is required to list whether or not deceased individuals were found in the unit, especially when the death has a high profile or when a known murder has occurred. The same requirements are in some US states as well. If a potential client wants to know if someone died in the home they have to provide that information if the death occurred within the last three years. If a murder was committed or a suicide or a death occurred that is highly publicized like this case is, especially under suspicious circumstances, then the realtor or listing agent must provide the information.

There are lots of people who never want to live in a home where deaths have occurred but the reality is that many homes are the final resting places of multitudes of individuals who die in their sleep or are in the end stages of cancer, etc. My grandfather died at home, most people of that era died at home, rather than in hospice care or an assisted living centre.

 

[Arboreal]

There’s night road works in and around Sydney, maybe, they did night shifts. If they were traffic controllers, night shift would suit

That is an excellent point. I had wondered how, if they were in construction they stayed up at night and then were off to work in the morning. A plausible answer is they were working at night in traffic control and they were up at night because they had come home from work.

 

[branmuffin]

Oh yeah, the morbid curiosity crew will be out in full force. It's crazy. There are literally tours in Sydney which will take you to famous crime scenes or related areas around the city for a few bucks.

There's lots of people not on Websleuths that think we are the morbid curiosity crew to spend so much time reading about terrible murders, heartbreaking disappearances and mysterious deaths. We just channel the curiosity in different ways.

 

[branmuffin]

I have to wonder, how often do people choose bleach as a method for suicide? Sure, it is a chemical that can easily be found in most households but my mind first thinks of it as an easier method of destroying evidence than choosing it to commit suicide. Bleach poisoning has very ugly side effects and if the girls were poisoned by it, they would most likely be found elsewhere in the house or on the floor, in a more awkward position. Not just lying there peacefully in their beds.

Another point is the smell. Was bleach used to cover the smell of the two decomposing bodies? How come none of the neighbors complained about the smell sooner?

Here's an interesting health article regarding the issue of 'detergent deaths' in Japan in the early 2000s. We haven't really heard whether the sisters had computers to find out what their search history was. If they didn't have a computer but had access to one where they worked it would be interesting to look at the search history at the work site.

Like you I thought that ingesting bleach would be a hideously painful death but it doesn't seem like it would be according to the link. Also, using large amounts of bleach actually anesthetizes your nasal passages, called olfactory nerve paralysis. It can also take on a sweeter smell in huge quantities.

“Detergent suicide” by adolescent as instructed by internet: A case report

OA Text is an independent open-access scientific publisher showcases innovative research and ideas aimed at improving health by linking research and practice to the benefit of society.

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