Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #24

[SouthAussie]

It's already with 'Cold Case' Barnes, the same Coroner who held the Inquest into Daniel Morcombe's suspected homicide.

Di Jubelin talks about the Coroner's involvement here:

Yes, because they are required by law to report to the Coroner after a year. And if they say they are still actively investigating, the Coroner will leave them alone. No inquest.
That is why people have to push for inquests sometimes.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thanks for the links, SA and soso. Subsequent MSM articles (post-April 2015):

William Tyrrell: Police work on 600 persons of interest in suspected abduction investigation
Ava Benny-Morrison
The Sydney Morning Herald
September 11 2016

'Last year a photo came across the desks of NSW detectives showing a young boy and a woman in a McDonald's in Central Queensland.

The boy looked eerily similar to William, and the woman he was with looked like his grandmother, Natalie Collins.

William's complicated background prevents reporting of certain aspects of his family life. However Ms Collins is not the grandmother who lived at the Kendall house where William disappeared from.

Fairfax Media reported last year that the hopes of detectives were dashed when police on the ground in Queensland confirmed the mother and boy were not who they hoped.

Ms Collins had already been tagged as a person of interest in the investigation, a suggestion she strenuously disputes.

The Sydney woman said she didn't know where William was staying at the time he disappeared or that he was going to be in Kendall.

"I didn't know, I wouldn't have a clue," she said.

"Who would have known what day he was going to be there and when he was playing outside?"

Ms Collin's friend, Kim Loweke, told A Current Affair in August that police visited her and asked if she was hiding William after they found out she intended to move into a three-bedroom house with Ms Collins.

"Why would I do that, seriously? If someone had him, I wouldn't hide him, I would show the world," Ms Collins said.'

'William's parents have been previously ruled out of their son's disappearance as has his grandmother, who moved out of the Kendall area after the unfathomable crime was carried out in her backyard.'

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...-abduction-investigation-20160906-gr9n80.html

and:

William Tyrrell investigation: highs, lows and false hope 12 months on
Ava Benny-Morrison
The Sydney Morning Herald
September 6 2015

'After months chipping away with no breakthrough, a photo came across the desks of Strike Force Rosann detectives.

It was well-focused and sharp, despite being hastily captured by a member of the public.

There was no denying the baby face in the image looked heart-stoppingly similar to William Tyrrell.'

'With the child was a woman with a chilling resemblance to someone police investigating three-year-old William's abduction had been interested in.

The photograph, captured in central Queensland, filled investigators with hope.

Detectives had finally found the little boy in the Spiderman suit whose disappearance had captivated Australia, they thought.

They went to sleep that night in June [2015], comforted by the thought they were about to pluck the boy from harm and place him back into his parents' arms.'

'The next day detectives on the soon-to-be 12-month investigation and senior police were briefed at the State Crime Command in Parramatta.

They were liaising with their Queensland counterparts about how William's extraction would play out.

Flights were about to be booked.

Then at the last minute, word from the ground reached investigators and obliterated their hope – it wasn't William.'

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...-false-hope-12-months-on-20150903-gjenjz.html

bbm red

"it wasn't William" - but his identical twin /triplet and because of that "complicated history" the public isn't allowed to learn of this fact ....? Maybe, more FPs than only one pair plus their foster child have to be protected by FACS? Not MOO but an idea ..... Though I don't know why the woman in QLD would have looked like bio grandma NC ..... As said: only my line of thoughts.

 

[Bohemian]

If blanket and boot, the child would undoubtedly be screaming at the top of his lungs, and surely would have been noticed somewhere along the 'escape route'? Unless of course... chloroform. But then we'd be getting right into a very much planned abduction, which police have also ruled out, right?

Not if you had your radio blaring and William was scared to death as his FPs said he would be.

I don't know if they ever ruled a 'planned abduction' or kidnapping out exactly. Just that the Forensic Psychologist thought it was indicative of a random opportunistic abduction IIRC.

Forensic/psychological profiling is not an exact science. It relies on statistical analysis and, as such, there are always 'outliers'. It would be a high probability scenario but not the only one as far as abduction goes.

 

[deugirtni]

What I meant was by the look of the photo, he hadnt had sandals on at that point because his sister appears to have her dressing gown on. In the other picture FGM or FM has dressing gown and slippers. So at that point they haven't left the deck. The grass is wet, the ground dirty.
While the image showed the sandals, the tiles indicated that the photo was not of FGMs house, although someone pointed out the image was not 'of the time'. (At this point the server was gridlocked so I didnt bother reply that I had established the shoes were not at FGMs by the looks due to the flooring type)

Williams feet are white as snow, there so he hasn't seen the dirt and his Spiderman outfit. If he had been playing hide and seek off the deck his sister probably would have been wearing different clothes.

What does it all mean! The timeline being established hopefully provides a better insight to all the diagrams and misinfo the media provided.

3 year old children (pre kindergarten) are reluctant to put on shoes because they don't have the balance. Its definitely a year of transition, and girls do it before boys. Sure, some kids manage, but velcro straps and shoes on the right feet are always a problem.

But the next door neighbour had reported that she had heard the children playing in the yard before she left her home that morning, which was 90 minutes before WT's disappearance, which puts the time at 9am, which is also prior to FD leaving the home. There was also talk of the children riding their bikes on the driveway, wasn't that much earlier than when they were playing chasies on the lawn? Surely they would have shoes on while riding their bikes. During the 000 call, FM did not respond when the operator asked if WT had shoes on.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes it was referred to the coroner but he's not investigating it actively. Yet. It's time though. It's just not acceptable (imo) for a child to go missing without a single trace for two years in a highly developed first world country in 2016.

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And we know that people would be compelled to talk, if they were called before the Coroner. Talk until the Coroner is satisfied.

 

[purpleandgreen]

The word 'slander' is not mine, that's yours. I'm merely questioning whether or not some think the FM is telling lies about where and when they actually were at the time she said the photos were taken. One such post is quoted above in the very post that you quoted.

Let's agree to move on now. This has had its time for the moment. Let's just concentrate on William.

Just state which user and where when you start throwing broad accusations of slander. Its really easy, hit the quote button.

*Sorry, people are left up to their own minds on who you are discussing about slander of FM


BBM

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, because they are required by law to report to the Coroner after a year. And if they say they are still actively investigating, the Coroner will leave them alone. No inquest.
That is why people have to push for inquests sometimes.

Agreed. Difficult situation for police as the Family and Community Services Minister (NSW Government) is William's legal guardian.

 

[Karinna]

Yes it was referred to the coroner but he's not investigating it actively. Yet. It's time though. It's just not acceptable (imo) for a child to go missing without a single trace for two years in a highly developed first world country in 2016.

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It's never acceptable for any child to be missing, but there are quite a few that are still missing many years later. We have threads about them here on WS.

 

[Bohemian]

And we know that people would be compelled to talk, if they were called before the Coroner. Talk until the Coroner is satisfied.

Again, agreed. Not our call, though.

 

[Eloise]

It's never acceptable for any child to be missing, but there are quite a few that are still missing many years later. We have threads about them here on WS.

I know. But sometimes its because when it happened it was pre mobile phones, pre DNA, pre social media. I think there is a different standard now.

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[purpleandgreen]

Thanks dg. Have tried everything.I keep getting messages about a script, so I just hit 'stop script' a couple of times then go away and do some chores then come back and it works. I've just learnt to be more patient.

Try rebooting?

 

[Bohemian]

Recently, I'm not sure if it was on 60 Minutes, I didn't catch the whole story in which the GM friend was being interviewed, she has a similar vehicle to the one that was spotted outside the house on the day WT disappeared, she also knows 1 or 2 of the men mentioned and questioned by police, I haven't seen anymore about this, I'm sure something in her story was conflicting. The GM and her friend were or are looking to buy a house together. I'm interested to know if anyone watched the GM reaction to the accusation, maybe I was reading too much into it..
I find it difficult to believe that this abduction was just random, then remembering the case about the man that was killed in Sydney, in which many of us thought it must have been one of his lovers, or someone very close, angry and upset with him. The killer turned out to be someone not even associated to him, a geeky chef kid.

It was A Current Affair, Nikki:

[video=youtube;ivK2GDnj9Ig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivK2GDnj9Ig[/video]

 

[Karinna]

I know. But sometimes its because when it happened it was pre mobile phones, pre DNA, pre social media. I think there is a different standard now.

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Some of the cases i was mentioning were not pre moblie phones, pre dna or SM. Think Kyron Horman, Ayla Reynolds, Aliyah Lunsford. etc.

 

[deugirtni]

The foster family and bio family were ALL CLEARED very early into William's disappearance. Because of complicated family history, no family members could be identified or speak to the media. Why was Natalie Collins (bio grandmother) allowed to give her interview earlier this year and now all of a sudden has been declared a person of interest along with KL in the disappearance of William. Could someone please explain that, as it seems to be contradictory to me (as all family members, foster & bio, were cleared within the first few days ???...TIA.

It seems to me that almost every detail in this case is contradictory in one way or another. I definitely agree with Bohemian when she says that we can only really go by what comes out of the mouths of FPs and police. Hopefully in MSM when police and/or FPs are being 'quoted', they are also accurate quotes, otherwise stuff would likely hit the fan. If we think about only the info that came out of the mouths of police and FPs, we have very very little information. We don't even have which side of the house FM and FGM were sitting on at the time when WT was playing chasies with his sister.

 

[Eloise]

Some of the cases i was mentioning were not pre moblie phones, pre dna or SM. Think Kyron Horman, Ayla Reynolds, Aliyah Lunsford. etc.

Ok? Every missing child case is bad.

However they're not in NSW so I don't feel as personally invested. NSW is where I live and pay tax and where my children live and go to school. It's not acceptable that this case has lasted two years with essentially no progress. I want more being done. What's been done so far isn't good enough. Jubelin even said so himself.

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[Bohemian]

bbm red

"it wasn't William" - but his identical twin /triplet and because of that "complicated history" the public isn't allowed to learn of this fact ....? Maybe, more FPs than only one pair plus their foster child have to be protected by FACS? Not MOO but an idea ..... Though I don't know why the woman in QLD would have looked like bio grandma NC ..... As said: only my line of thoughts.

All 3 year old boys look much the same. For goodness' sake my own grandson had a 'rogue preschooler hairdresser' cut his curls off last year and he had to get a No. 2 (similar to William's hairstyle). I nearly fainted when I saw him as he looked similar to William too. If I hadn't been at the hospital when he was born, I would've called Crimestoppers myself!

Obviously someone who strongly resembled NC was filmed with a child who was similar in looks and of a similar age to William in Central Qld. Of course, they would have had their 'spidey senses' start tingling. Why they didn't release that information in June 2015 is anyone's guess. I gave up trying to interpret DCI Jubelin's strategy a long time ago. He runs rings around me as far as intelligence goes. He has street dog cunning and humbles me quite frankly.

 

[Nikki_2]

Thanks SouthAussie, I could not remember for life, seems I go brain dead after 2pm

 

[Makara]

I've been tossing around the hypothesis that two women may have had a hand in William's abduction. TJ's wife Debbie owned a white station wagon similar to the one seen by William's mother. Debbie is good friends with KL who apparently has a similar car to the other car seen by William's mother. And just to make it more interesting KL is a long time friend of William's paternal grandmother Natalie Collins.

Let's suppose that NC learned from her son (William's father) that William and his sister were going to be in Kendall on 12 September 2014. She passed this info onto her friends KL and DG and a plan was hatched. KL and DG would drive their own cars, with NC being a passenger with one of them. Is it feasible to think that William would more readily go with a woman than a man? He didn't really know NC, she's only met him once so there wouldn't be any familiarity there for William. The fact that both KL and NC have been named POI's in the media makes me wonder if something like this could be the case. It's also interesting to note that the police had considered NC as being involved in William's abduction over a year ago and from what I can gather nothing has changed.

Would any of these three women be in fear of the others? Does one of them have a cruel and dominating personality that would render the others silent?

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, because they are required by law to report to the Coroner after a year. And if they say they are still actively investigating, the Coroner will leave them alone. No inquest.
That is why people have to push for inquests sometimes.

Good chronology of major events (with live links to related ABC News articles):

William Tyrrell: Timeline of boy's disappearance in September 2014
ABC News
Updated Mon Sep 12 09:33:48 EST 2016
Posted Mon Mar 02 14:31:56 EST 2015

September 19, 2015

'William's disappearance is referred to the Corner's Court but police say the investigation is continuing in the belief he is still alive.'

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...line-follows-disappearance-of-nsw-boy/6274088

 

[Bohemian]

Thanks SouthAussie, I could not remember for life, seems I go brain dead after 2pm

Me too. Signing off. Need coffee.