Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #27

[Hbayne]

I wonder who the child was that gave BS the Spider-Man figure to keep him company .

 

[Hbayne]

That makes no sense to me sorry, moving right along ...

Although would love to know what SNAFU means !!!

 

[Bohemian]

Although would love to know what SNAFU means !!!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SNAFU

 

[Warshawski]

I mean it's odd to me that if he's an adult living with his mother, why would his dad and mother in law feel the need to move near him, unless living with his mother is long term, which is odd in itself if he's an adult. Granted, there's the odd son everyone wants to be near, but I don't know too many just thinking about it.

And yes it could be a crime committed by a child (& concealed by an adult) imo

Obviously I am missing something - again! Who said the 'son' was an adult? And even if he was, I see no problem with his father and step-mum choosing to live nearby, actually the opposite. Personally, if I was looking to relocate, have a child somewhere would certainly be a draw card to that area.

 

[Warshawski]

BBM, And that is very strange because WT had been out in the yard playing that morning and on his FGM's patio where the photo was taken, and sniffer dogs should definitely have picked up his scent.

My apologies Karinna, I'm not understanding ... It has been reported as previously ' Williams scent wasn't found outside his grand mother's driveway or house boundary'.
That to me says that his scent WAS picked up INSIDE the yard & driveway ie within the Boundary of FGM property - just to verify in its simplest terms that William was actually there .

IMO, it also supports the idea that William was physically removed - picked up & carried away, possibly even covered & secured, which would then have removed his scent ..

 

[Karinna]

My apologies Karinna, I'm not understanding ... It has been reported as previously ' Williams scent wasn't found outside his grand mother's driveway or house boundary'.
That to me says that his scent WAS picked up INSIDE the yard & driveway ie within the Boundary of FGM property - just to verify in its simplest terms that William was actually there .

IMO, it also supports the idea that William was physically removed - picked up & carried away, possibly even covered & secured, which would then have removed his scent ..

No need to apologize Warshawski, Earlier i was doing an internet search on articles where it was stated about the SAR dogs detecting WT's scent. All the articles in my internet search came up saying there wasn't any scent detected by the dogs and one of my links from msm actually stated no scent was detected "in the yard" where WT was. The poster found an article in a women's Weekly magazine that was posted that stated there was a scent detected on the boundary of the yard. But i still haven't seen a regular msm source for that information? There either "Was" or there "Wasn't" a scent detected and it can't be both. That's all. That is why i said earlier believe whatever you want because there is conflicting information about that issue.

 

[Warshawski]

(quote)
Police Strike Force Rosann has been established as sniffer dogs fail to pick up any scent of William Tyrell, five days after he went missing on the NSW mid north coast.
The 3-year-old boy was last seen playing with his sister in his grandmother’s Kendall frontyard on Friday morning.
Searchers combed bushland again throughout last night in a 1.5 kilometre radius from the home and have expanded the search out to three kilometres today.
Superintendent Paul Fehon says neither police sniffer dogs nor cadaver dogs have been able to pick up any sign of the boy, fuelling fears he may not have wandered away from home.
Police are been working with specialist units across the state, including the sex crime squad.
Known sex offenders in the area have been contacted to confirm their whereabouts when William was last seen.
http://www.nbnnews.com.au/2014/09/16/update-sniffer-dogs-fail-to-pick-up-scent-of-william-tyrell/
If i am reading the article correctly it states that there wasn't any scent of WT picked up by sniffer dogs?

To me, this is an example of the lessons we get in understanding the 'changing of the message' ... I read this to say that the dogs didn't pick up any scent of Wiliam during their extended 3 kilometre search FROM the Kendall home (nothing in that spoke to me about what may / may not have been found WITHIN the home / boundary confines)

 

[Karinna]

To me, this is an example of the lessons we get in understanding the 'changing of the message' ... I read this to say that the dogs didn't pick up any scent of Wiliam during their extended 3 kilometre search FROM the Kendall home (nothing in that spoke to me about what may / may not have been found WITHIN the home / boundary confines)

So how do you interpret this?
(quote)
Sniffer dogs and cadaver dogs found no scent in the yard, fuelling fears he may have been abducted.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/fear...en-abducted-from-kendall-20140916-10hqb0.html

So was that in the FGM yard or someone else's yard?

 

[Warshawski]

I've been for a walk, dropped the children theory, and I'm back on Spedding. Let's say Spedding was the original spotter. He found out from the grandmother early in the week that the family were expected Friday for the weekend. The grandmother doesn't remember telling him, perhaps she has a degree of dementia, but he doesn't count on that. He passed on the information to a shady connection (I think he may have a few on account of the pawn shop) and planned to be occupied, that is alibi-ed, for the weekend. Early Friday morning he got a phone message from William's mother and realized they'd arrived early. He decided to pass that on as well and scramble for a Friday alibi. Accordingly he went to his office and used a phone from the bag and then spent nearly two hours in a coffee shop where he was known, with his wife, making sure to pay using his credit card. Then he went to the school assembly. Unfortunately he seems to be an unnoticeable sort of chap. Afterwards perhaps he ascertained from the news or from locals that the deed was done, and didn't bother with an alibi for the rest of the day.

I think there would have needed to be further local assessment before the kidnapper arrived prepared to scoop up William and I don't know how this was done.

I don't think this explains the early presence of the cars, but perhaps they were waiting for the family to arrive even before Spedding's call that morning.

I'll say again, entirely speculation.

hey JLZ, and thanks for your well articulated & most plausible scenario. And I do think it explains the early presence of the cars ... the perps would have been so excited & organised that they would have been sure to be in place early .. After all, a job well done is a job done well!

Perhaps it all played out earlier than expected, but no matter, they were in place, locked, loaded & ready to go ... such a shame they couldn't have put these skills to the good of society, as opposed to.... the sooner we rid our society of these blights, the better IMO ... and bring in 'stringing on an ant's nest in the desert sun' for sexual predators!

Yep, my opinions ..

 

[Warshawski]

People still have their pet theories that either William's foster parents, his biological parents, BS, AJ, PB, PN, even a yowie are responsible for his disappearance.

Four people that have been cleared by DCI Jubelin are William's foster parents and his biological parents. What next? Will William's foster grandmother be in the frame? Did she ride a bicycle? Or a skateboard? Hmmm . . .

Cheers Boho .. as they say, laughter is good for the soul ...

 

[Warshawski]

I don't think I need to point that out

Give up the squabbles I reckon - since William is the reason for our being here, let's all be kind & considerate of the opinions of others, as they also will be towards us

 

[kiwi50]

So how do you interpret this?
(quote)
Sniffer dogs and cadaver dogs found no scent in the yard, fuelling fears he may have been abducted.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/fear...en-abducted-from-kendall-20140916-10hqb0.html

So was that in the FGM yard or someone else's yard?

I'd interpret it as a reporter who didn't realize what he had written made no sense, probably meant to say no scent beyond the yard, if there was no scent in the property it wouldn't add fuel to William being abducted.
Reporter deserves a rap over the knuckles for confusing you.

 

[Wexford]

I've been for a walk, dropped the children theory, and I'm back on Spedding. Let's say Spedding was the original spotter. He found out from the grandmother early in the week that the family were expected Friday for the weekend. The grandmother doesn't remember telling him, perhaps she has a degree of dementia, but he doesn't count on that. He passed on the information to a shady connection (I think he may have a few on account of the pawn shop) and planned to be occupied, that is alibi-ed, for the weekend. Early Friday morning he got a phone message from William's mother and realized they'd arrived early. He decided to pass that on as well and scramble for a Friday alibi. Accordingly he went to his office and used a phone from the bag and then spent nearly two hours in a coffee shop where he was known, with his wife, making sure to pay using his credit card. Then he went to the school assembly. Unfortunately he seems to be an unnoticeable sort of chap. Afterwards perhaps he ascertained from the news or from locals that the deed was done, and didn't bother with an alibi for the rest of the day.

I think there would have needed to be further local assessment before the kidnapper arrived prepared to scoop up William and I don't know how this was done.

I don't think this explains the early presence of the cars, but perhaps they were waiting for the family to arrive even before Spedding's call that morning.

I'll say again, entirely speculation.

One of my favourite theories (and i have several) is very very close to this one. I would also add perhaps there was a 3 degrees of separation moment like 'and you wont believe who these foster kids are'?

 

[SouthAussie]

http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/1513862/missing-15-hours-who-found-tyler-asks-his-mum/
I find it just as odd as you Karinna, and the 1st articles all said, no scent was detected. full stop. They specified "beyond the boundaries" later. Having said that the above article is relevant I think.
The above article is about a two year old child who went missing on just the other side of Middle Brother forest in 2013. They used the dogs that day too and didn't find him. He was located 15 hours later, 200m away from where he disappeared by volunteers. So I found that story interesting, because of the location and the year it happened to highlight that the dogs don't always find them when they are right there. For what reasons, I don't know. Where he was found is in other articles I haven't linked to. The only other thing it makes me query is if this child's disappearance was due to human intervention and then he was returned in the dark. I've kept my mind open on this to see if it is related to Wt's case, and the coincidence that the dogs and police did not find the child. In this instance the search was called off, but volunteers persisted. MOO

Just jumping off your post, frogwell.

We did a ton of research about SAR dogs in the Gary Tweddle case. He had run from a hotel, wandered along the side of roadways, through bushland, and was eventually found deceased 1½ km away over the side of a mountain. An intensive search was carried out for about 6 weeks, before he was found. Gary's scent was lost very quickly after leaving the hotel.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...e/news-story/4aa8c99ba615f5897f6eddab2efcaae7

There are many things that interfere with SAR dogs picking up a scent, and losing it.
- Wind direction
- Wind speed
- Time of day
- Weather conditions
- Dew
- The presence of hazardous materials
- Details about the subject
- Loose dogs/cats/animals
- Other SAR teams
- Physical obstacles
- Contamination of the area (i.e., if family members have been beating the bushes for a lost relative, can reduce the effectiveness of a SAR dog, for dogs have trouble discerning between the scent of the subject and the scent on/from a family member)
. .... to name a few.


It is not an exact science. Research went a long way towards us understanding the abilities and results of SAR & cadaver dogs in their work.

.

 

[Bohemian]

MISSING TODDLER WILLIAM TYRELL VICTIM OF POSSIBLE TARGETED KIDNAPPING FROM KENDALL
LIA HARRIS, The Sunday Telegraph
January 3, 2015 10:00pm

The timeline of William Tyrell’s disappearance.

'Mrs Wilson said she heard the two children playing in the neighbouring yard before she left to run errands in the township about 90 minutes before William disappeared, just metres from her home.'​

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...l/news-story/46b94ee67cf7e7c2cb4ba6a276388da8

 

[Wexford]

I'd interpret it as a reporter who didn't realize what he had written made no sense, probably meant to say no scent beyond the yard, if there was no scent in the property it wouldn't add fuel to William being abducted.
Reporter deserves a rap over the knuckles for confusing you.

Misinterpretation. I would say it should have read: Dogs found no trail. They found his scent in the yard as expected...it would have been all over as he had been riding his bike and running around playing with his sister. No trail found meant nothing was found outside of the expected perimeter so no clue as to where he went. It stopped at the driveway but we know he rode his bike there and back. Sniffer dogs were no help. End of.

 

[Bohemian]

I would consider it a positive result if cadaver dogs were unable to find William's scent or scent trail. Whether blood-scenting dogs were used in the search for William, I don't know, but the result would be similarly positive wrt to finding no scent or scent trail.

This is a recent article on the use of blood-scenting and cadaver dogs in missing and deceased persons' cases. If anyone's interested in further reading on this subject, Professor Shari Forbes of UTS' Forensic Science department is considered an Australian expert and the author of scholarly journal articles in this field.
__________

For sniffing out crime and missing persons, science backs blood-detection dogs
August 18, 2017 6.21am AEST
LaTara Rust and Shari Forbes

Authors:

LaTara Rust
PhD candidate, University of Technology Sydney

Shari Forbes
Professor, University of Technology Sydney

Disclosure statement:

LaTara Rust receives funding from the Australian Government Research Training Program Scholarship and the Australian Research Council (ARC).

Shari Forbes receives funding from the Australian Research Council and USAID.

'It’s difficult to contemplate the tragedy of losing a loved one and never knowing what happened to them.

Every year, an estimated 38,000 people go missing in Australia. While almost 95% of these individuals are found relatively quickly, 5% become long-term missing persons cases, with many suspected victims of foul play.

British toddler Madeleine McCann disappeared in 2007 on a family holiday in Portugal, and has never been found. Sniffer dogs in this case initially assisted in locating blood samples found in the holiday home.

However, the use of canines has attracted controversy due to misunderstandings about the sensitivity of dogs to reliably find evidence through scent at a crime scene.

But our recent research shows that for sniffing out blood, dogs are one of the best investigative screening tools for expediting crime scene searches.'

Read more at:

https://theconversation.com/for-sni...sons-science-backs-blood-detection-dogs-82213

 

[frogwell]

No need to apologize Warshawski, Earlier i was doing an internet search on articles where it was stated about the SAR dogs detecting WT's scent. All the articles in my internet search came up saying there wasn't any scent detected by the dogs and one of my links from msm actually stated no scent was detected "in the yard" where WT was. The poster found an article in a women's Weekly magazine that was posted that stated there was a scent detected on the boundary of the yard. But i still haven't seen a regular msm source for that information? There either "Was" or there "Wasn't" a scent detected and it can't be both. That's all. That is why i said earlier believe whatever you want because there is conflicting information about that issue.

Well, I think it is a valid point about the scent. Just because his scent was not found beyond the boundary, it could be assumed that WT's scent that was found in the yard, stopped at the boundary. But it doesn't say that. This particular piece of reporting has always seemed a bit word-smithy to me and the jury is still out for me on that piece of information. MOO

 

[Bohemian]

Well, I think it is a valid point about the scent. Just because his scent was not found beyond the boundary, it could be assumed that WT's scent that was found in the yard, stopped at the boundary. But it doesn't say that. This particular piece of reporting has always seemed a bit word-smithy to me and the jury is still out for me on that piece of information. MOO

Journalist Greg Bearup travelled to Kendall and toured the scene at Benaroon Drive. This is a snippet from the report of his interview with Superintendent Paul Fehon:

What happened to missing boy William Tyrell?*
The Australian
Greg Bearup
12:00AM September 20, 2014

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...l/news-story/55fe696ecdf5361c3f164bec8bd03e4d

'Within a few hours [of William's disappearance] police with sniffer dogs arrived from Port Macquarie. The bush surrounding the house had been “contaminated” but the handlers, with their dogs, swept further out into the bush. They could pick up no scent.'

[*Note: If anyone wants to read the entire article, copy the headline and and paste it into the Google search bar.]

 

[iailwa]

It's all become a confusing jumble of information to me, as just posted upstream, let's hope the investigation team has a very capable & organised 'administration' team as I also don't know how they remember & cross match everything!

To me tho, this makes sense of the fact that William was at one stage riding his bike on the driveway (am sure that was said ?) I think somewhere it was also mentioned that he liked to greet / farewell Dad in the driveway (what driveway ? Hadn't they just arrived night before? Did they have a similar length of drive at home in Sydney ?) so perhaps he rode down that morning beside Dad to wave him as he drove off - which would have given anyone on the road a good view of a little boy in residence. ... parked cars, vehicles doing uTurns, people just driving by ..

Does anyone have knowledge of / good description of the supposedly 'well dressed man' who was asking directions that day to Benaroon Drive? (What time was it when he was asking?)

thank you for helping my addled brain

It's funny but I've read conflicting reports about this man. Some articles say he was asking for direction to near William's St, others say to William's street, some say he was at the local grocery store in Kendall, others say he was at local store in Kew. I know they got several stores in Kendall to keep their CCTV footage, and also the Tennis club which is just a little further up the road. I think the latter was for car identification. As for what he looks like or what he was wearing, no info...