Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #48

[SouthAussie]

Hi South Aussie , stuff up the reply with your quote, my child snuck up on me, jumped ten feet into the air, not computer savey, how do you delete it this is the second time it has happened.
I know about the restriction about Social Media even as a foster child, different in my time but it was place there. Not allowed to do musical performances with class, do ballet/ performances be on debate/sport team in case my photos got shared.
It was very annoying but when I was old enough no longer on Welfare, I moved like an Elephant in Ballet Classes, I twinkled my toes across local theater groups, joined Shakespeare Debate( After that Richard 3, was banned or performed or even mentioned with the Shakespeare local group for some years)
Just thinking about as there were tough restrictions regarding foster family if Foster Family or extended members comes under court charges the children are removed. The FFQ I was removed from them(which I discovered in my records)was not due to complains from the school neighbours etc but they, the Welfare were informed that a member of the family was facing Court. Even though it was Children's Court the rules were applied and I was removed from them.

A thought just crossed my mind, it is rather a horrible one as I do look at memories of my past.
I know in my time foster children were easy target, as the Welfare does not like to be public as we saw in William case.
In my thoughts,William was grabbed by a person with bad/disgusting intention not just because he was a child, but a Foster Child, he was an easy target. It has been stated the people in the area knew William and Lindsay were Foster Children in a small town word does get around and to the wrong ears.
I believe if Lindsay had come out before William that fateful day we would be looking for Lindsay and William left with the shock of the loss of his sister.

Many People with bad intention would take an advantage due to Welfare Restrictions

In case many kids I heard/remember were sexual abused Welfare did none thing.
I, at the age of thirteen fought off an attack, I was punished for it. The boy's Mum demanded my punishment was still not good enough had me banned from certain parts of the school because her dear boy was so scared of me and that Welfare Girl(she called me) was trouble.She even came inside my Foster Family Q home four months later and insulted me saying I did damaged to School Property(Ripped up/torn down the Rose Bushes, really 1 they were native plants 2) me rip up Rose Bushes with my bare hands???)
This charming boy along with my FF Sibling the following year tormented me for over period of a few weeks, following me home pulling at their pants chanting that they were going to rape me. When they were confronted, my FF sibling said"She is Welfare. She is None thing I can do what ever I like to her. This was report to Welfare but none thing was done.
Sadly to a lot of people back twenty five years ago and more, if you were Welfare you belonged to the gutter.
I still face some people bigot attitude, from 40 years and up who had the cheek to question if I was a good parent.
I was one of the lucky one Leaving FFQ I was determined to forge my way in life
Many former Wards still suffer to these days from of their lost childhood.

Yes, lots of kids harmed. Some now taking people to court on historical charges, as well as the official institutional inquiries.

I am not sure that people in Kendall knew that William was a foster child before he disappeared? Maybe they did. I just don't recall reading that anywhere.
They may have only known that this daughter of FGM had a couple of kids .... unless they were close enough to FGM/FGD to know that this daughter had no kids, then all of a sudden she had a baby and a little girl. I guess that's possible.

I suppose FM/FD's close friends may have known, and possibly coworkers too ... and then word could have got around a bit from there.
Although, in Lia's podcast, she mentioned how police retraced their steps via CCTV - as much as they could - to ensure that they were not followed from Sydney, and also investigated to see if anyone had a grievance against them.

 

[Warshawski]

Yes, at some point in time I will go through MSM articles and add those items. I want to see if I put them together exactly what time period the Coroner is looking at for him. Or if it is the entire day.

And I wonder where Heather was. I feel that she must have not been around at significant times - or has said in her statement that he was outside tinkering in his outbuildings and she didn't see him. The Coroner seems to also be questioning his morning walk that day.

I noticed that when Laura Beacroft visited him, she had him show her exactly what cups/plates he used that morning for his tea and toast, among other things. They put him way under the microscope on a fairly extended basis.

The intensive investigation of him (as opposed to others in the street, as far as we've been made aware) is of interest to me.
Do we know exactly which neighbour FGM suggested raised her suspicion?

My mind went to the 'mystery man' who left due to 'supposedly' being uncomfortable with all the activities etc ( according to PS). Have we heard anything of that person from anyone else ?

But who of us knows who FGM was referring to ?

All simply my own thoughts & opinions of course.

 

[Warshawski]

I don't think so - no 10:10am call. A 9:02 call briefly. And a 9:59-10:07 call.

Landline records show a brief call was made to the hospital at 9.02am, and a longer, eight minute call, was made at 9.59am.
Details of ‘deeply troubling’ police grilling of Tyrrell person of interest

I personally think Laura worked well with Jubes. He would have been the one to second her to the strike force in 2015.
She is also the one he trusted to do the walkthrough with Paul Savage. She has the expertise to study behaviour. imo

Thanks SA.

I'm so confused with all the 'seemingly' conflicting times as mentioned across the various reports; And I'm now loath to take comments from the various reporters, podcasts etc (C or others ) as being anything other than a 'he said / she said scenario, as IMO they're just doing their best to stay newsworthy; it's simply their attempt at gathering information that will prick interest / make the headlines.
Until proved otherwise, IMO it's all just hearsay...

It's such an inexplicable & appalling situation. How is it possible that a young child can go missing from a suburban environment with no one (as far as we know) able to offer up any information to explain or assist.

For me it's only the police reported occurrences that I can rely on - and they're few & flaw between, understandably I guess.

Call records from PS phone line would only report the calls made - not who made the call/s.
Phone records can be suppoenered from the Telco but I'm not sure if these days technology means that can extend to actual Voice records (texts from mobiles, yes)

 

[deugirtni]

The intensive investigation of him (as opposed to others in the street, as far as we've been made aware) is of interest to me.
Do we know exactly which neighbour FGM suggested raised her suspicion?

My mind went to the 'mystery man' who left due to 'supposedly' being uncomfortable with all the activities etc ( according to PS). Have we heard anything of that person from anyone else ?

But who of us knows who FGM was referring to ?

All simply my own thoughts & opinions of course.

It is my belief that FGM was referring to PS's next door neighbour, the one who ultimately moved away. It is already known this man kept 'irregular hours', and that police searched his home 3 times within a 24 hour period, and that they were suspicious about a 'box' over one of his windows. This is what FGM said according to this MSM, wherein she mentions he lives alone (which PS did not live alone at the time), and that he kept odd hours. It also sounds like FGM didn't really have much of a reason to suspect him, but more that she was just offering up whatever suggestion(s) she could think of. imo.:

William Tyrrell's foster grandmother was initially suspicious of a neighbour on Benaroon Drive in the wake of her grandson's disappearance, because he lives alone and keeps odd hours, according to her witness statement taken two days after he went missing.
....
Released to the Herald on Tuesday, the statement reveals the foster grandmother initially told police that her neighbour could have been involved in the toddler's disappearance.

"I can't think of anyone who would want to harm William. I was asked this question initially by Wendy HUDSON (a police woman who lives in Kendall) and I suggested [a neighbour] across the road (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone). Wendy assures me that she has checked him out thoroughly," it reads.

The man has been vetted by Strike Force Rosann investigators, and found to have had no involvement in the case. He has since left the Kendall area.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...r-reveals-her-suspicions-20190430-p51ijw.html

 

[deugirtni]

Thanks SA.

I'm so confused with all the 'seemingly' conflicting times as mentioned across the various reports; And I'm now loath to take comments from the various reporters, podcasts etc (C or others ) as being anything other than a 'he said / she said scenario, as IMO they're just doing their best to stay newsworthy; it's simply their attempt at gathering information that will prick interest / make the headlines.
Until proved otherwise, IMO it's all just hearsay...

It's such an inexplicable & appalling situation. How is it possible that a young child can go missing from a suburban environment with no one (as far as we know) able to offer up any information to explain or assist.

For me it's only the police reported occurrences that I can rely on - and they're few & flaw between, understandably I guess.

Call records from PS phone line would only report the calls made - not who made the call/s.
Phone records can be suppoenered from the Telco but I'm not sure if these days technology means that can extend to actual Voice records (texts from mobiles, yes)

The 8 minute call made from PS's landline, was to Casino Hospital, where PS's brother was at, at the time, so in my mind, it only makes sense that it would've been PS who had made the call. It was approx half an hour before HS was leaving for bingo, so she may have been getting herself ready to go (I know that is what I would've been doing). Even if it was HS making the call because perhaps she was better at sorting out plans/details as sometimes females are(??), my guess would be that PS would be standing right there with her, listening to the plans being made FOR him - since apparently he was to pick up his bro from the hospital and transport him back to the brother's home that day (according to reports and testimony).

To me, PS is a big red herring, and is taking the place in MSM of Spedding, now that he is no longer the focus, but that is just my guess. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Wow @Shadow@light, that sounds like a horrible lost childhood you experienced. I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences. Hopefully attitudes towards fosterchildren have changed since then. It is certainly eye-opening to consider why Alanna Smith may have ended up so bitter toward the facs system and their covering up of things that happen/ed to children while in care. imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

It's such an inexplicable & appalling situation. How is it possible that a young child can go missing from a suburban environment with no one (as far as we know) able to offer up any information to explain or assist.

The plan, from whomever (that would be interesting the most), was perfect (it seems). And maybe, not only RC had an aversion against someone, who played a role of an omniscient Mrs. Voluntary Activity (my personally image of someone, I don't know - admitting it). MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

The plan, from whomever (that would be interesting the most), was perfect (it seems). And maybe, not only RC had an aversion against someone, who played a role of an omniscient Mrs. Voluntary Activity (my personally image of someone, I don't know - admitting it). MOO

Something to think about is Feb 2014.
FGM's hubby died in Feb 2014.
Savage was arrested and charged for breaching the AVO against him for stalking the postie also, in Feb 2014.

I can't help but wonder if the delivery of sympathy cards, and perhaps flowers, to FGM at that time had postie in the area of Savage's house at that time. Hence, the breach of the AVO came about - with Savage waiting around for her daily delivery. And perhaps FGM (and/or FPs) getting somewhat involved - asking Savage to leave postie alone, being a recorded witness for the police.

As Shadow said, if 'Lindsey' had been alone for a short period that morning would it have been her that was taken instead? Did which child it was matter, or did it just matter that hurt was inflicted on that family?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

As Shadow said, if 'Lindsey' had been alone for a short period that morning would it have been her that was taken instead? Did which child it was matter, or did it just matter that hurt was inflicted on that family?

I believe: yes, it did matter. It had to be little W. MOO of course

 

[SouthAussie]

The intensive investigation of him (as opposed to others in the street, as far as we've been made aware) is of interest to me.
Do we know exactly which neighbour FGM suggested raised her suspicion?

My mind went to the 'mystery man' who left due to 'supposedly' being uncomfortable with all the activities etc ( according to PS). Have we heard anything of that person from anyone else ?

But who of us knows who FGM was referring to ?

All simply my own thoughts & opinions of course.

It seems that it was the person in the 'creepy house' that FGM alluded to. His home was searched 3 times in the first 24 hours, so it seems that police took her suspicions on board initially.

A close neighbour committing this crime makes the most sense of all. imo
And ranks highly when using the KISS principle - and the Occam's Razor philosophy.

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>
Wow Shadow@light, that sounds like a horrible lost childhood you experienced. I'm so sorry to hear of your experiences. Hopefully attitudes towards fosterchildren have changed since then. It is certainly eye-opening to consider why Alanna Smith may have ended up so bitter toward the facs system and their covering up of things that happen/ed to children while in care. imo.

It is also interesting to note that foster carers are not given details about abuses and neglect that happened to the child prior to taking the child on. Just the issues that the child now has - trust issues, anxiety, fears, stability issues, medical issues - things that can affect the fostered person for their whole life, if they don't overcome them.

Something I learned from my foster carer friends.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just a couple of things about an AVO, otherwise it is likely a he said/she said situation that cannot be proved. Unless there are text communications or CCTV - which for Savage might not be the case.

BBM
The applicant (you) presents their case first. The defendant or their solicitor will then have the opportunity to ask you and your witnesses questions about your evidence.
You or your lawyer (or the Police Prosecutor in a police application) will be able to ask the defendant and their witnesses questions about their evidence.

About Apprehended Violence Orders (AVO)

At the hearing, the court will hear evidence from both sides and any witnesses from each side.
What will happen at an AVO hearing

 

[Whàngarei]

The intensive investigation of him (as opposed to others in the street, as far as we've been made aware) is of interest to me.
Do we know exactly which neighbour FGM suggested raised her suspicion?

My mind went to the 'mystery man' who left due to 'supposedly' being uncomfortable with all the activities etc ( according to PS). Have we heard anything of that person from anyone else ?

But who of us knows who FGM was referring to ?

All simply my own thoughts & opinions of course.

she may have thrown shade at a few neighbours but the one focused on initially left the property without a pic of him ever being released. That is unfortunate imo.

 

[sosocurious]

Bit of a typo in the first couple of GO advertisments - Geoff Own.
He did not start advertising until the February 2014 it seems.

The Chronicle, the forthnightly newsletter for Kendall

 

[Blues Clues]

From Lia Harris Inquest tweets :

The court heard records showed he made a phone call at 9.59 to Casino Hopsital, where his brother was a patient, which lasted 8 minutes. He was making arrangements to pick him up. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

Det Beacroft told the court she believes William disappeared between 10.05am and 10.15am. She is asked if that puts Savage inside making a phone call for a portion of the time she believes he would’ve been abducted. She responds yes. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

The court heard Mr Savage made another phone call at 10.41am after his wife left for bingo to an x-ray business to arrange an appointment. He tells the court he does not remember making that call. @10NewsFirst @10Daily

Lia Harris also talks about the calls in the Podcast Episode - Faded Memories

Is it known if this call was from a land line or a mobile? Would this have been verified with the x-ray clinic or only taken from his phone records. Is it possible this call was a pocket dial?

 

[drsleuth]

Is it known if this call was from a land line or a mobile? Would this have been verified with the x-ray clinic or only taken from his phone records. Is it possible this call was a pocket dial?

Landline, put portable phone with just one handset, could easily have made call from sitting out the front on his verandah IMO. ( He did have a mobile ( that he bought off his grand daughter) , old style flip phone that he said was more an ornament & only used for travel ) ..........

 

[kiwi50]

Bit of a typo in the first couple of GO advertisments - Geoff Own.
He did not start advertising until the February 2014 it seems.

The Chronicle, the forthnightly newsletter for Kendall

Gosh he certainly was a Jack of all trades, wonder if he was master of any.

 

[Blues Clues]

Landline, put portable phone with just one handset, could easily have made call from sitting out the front on his verandah IMO. ( He did have a mobile ( that he bought off his grand daughter) , old style flip phone that he said was more an ornament & only used for travel ) ..........

Thank you Dr - so the call to the x-ray clinic was not likely to be a pocket dial. It seems odd timing to be making that call with his planned departure within 20mins.

 

[drsleuth]

Gosh he certainly was a Jack of all trades, wonder if he was master of any.

And they were all read out in court...............I wondered if it would ever end

 

[they'll get you]

It is also interesting to note that foster carers are not given details about abuses and neglect that happened to the child prior to taking the child on. Just the issues that the child now has - trust issues, anxiety, fears, stability issues, medical issues - things that can affect the fostered person for their whole life, if they don't overcome them.

Something I learned from my foster carer friends.

Tiahliegh Palmer’s name was published when she went missing and before she was found murdered and she was in foster care.
The only difference I can see is maybe is to protect William’s sister otherwise I can’t see a difference.