Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #55

[Warshawski]

Except number 14 was explained at inquest..Dr Sleuth do you have notes on this?

Hi Georgy, would you help me understand your comment please. think I’m missing something

IMO, this was a List of the different colour cars that have been raised during the course of the investigation into William’s disappearance.
I appreciate the time & attention given to its compilation.

I don’t believe the List came with any condemnation of drivers / owners / passengers etc etc. But I sure hope it may jog a memory, help with the missing pieces in the puzzle.

 

[Warshawski]

@Georgy do you mean this one? Was explained at the inquest?

14. Kendall store owner: well dressed man who asked for directions to Benaroon dr driving a grey station wagon.

Would be great to finally have an answer on who this was...

ahh - ok - I think it may have been a Store owner in Kew who reported this.
But Kew is only about 5 mins from Kendall, IMO

 

[Tinker Taylor]

ahh - ok - I think it may have been a Store owner in Kew who reported this.
But Kew is only about 5 mins from Kendall, IMO

Yes, my bad, it was Kew.

 

[stormbird]

National Missing Persons Week launches with aim of saving families from 'a lifetime of grief', ABC News

"The annual campaign, run by the Australian Federal Police and now in its 32nd year, aims to spotlight cases to jog people's memories in the hope of throwing up the vital nugget of information that could change everything."

 

[Blues Clues]

Australian-first forensic program seeks to name our country’s unidentified human remains

 

[stormbird]

This is a timeline of neighbour movements on the morning of 12 September 2014, based on information I found in Caroline Overington's book, "Missing William Tyrrell". (I've only included movements which were listed with a specific time. The book didn't explain why other movements were not given a time, or not mentioned.) I replaced people's names with their house numbers, for privacy, and to show where they were moving. "B" stands for Benaroon Drive, "E" is for Ellendale Crescent e.g. Mr 48.B represents MFC, who was staying at 48 Benaroon Drive.

All times are approximate, and all movements involve driving, I think, except where noted to be a walk.

6.00 to 6.30 am: Mr 16.B leaves (1)
6.30: Mr 31.B leaves (2)
6.30: Mr 43.B leaves on a walk via the fire trail (2)
6.30: Ms 9.B and Ms 16.B leave on a walk (2)
7.15: Mr 30.B leaves (2)
8.00: Ms 31.B sees three of her children off to the bus stop (2) or she takes them to the bus stop (3)
8.10: 19.E junior walks to the bus stop (2)
8.30: Mr 18.B leaves (2)
8.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B leave (1)
8.40: Mr 48.B (MFC) leaves (4)
8.45 to 9.00: Mr 19.E leaves (2)
8.50: Mr 43.B walks home on Benaroon Drive from Batar Creek Road (2)
9.00: Ms 30.B leaves (2)
9.00: Mr 21.B returns home (2)
9.05: Mr 10.E returns home (2)
9.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B return home (1)
10.30: Ms 43.B leaves (2)
11.06: Senior Constable Rowley arrives (5)

Notes (page numbers are from a paperback):
(1) Missing William Tyrrell, 2020, chapter 10, page 205
(2) ch.10, p.206
(3) ch.2, p.25
(4) ch.2, p.15
(5) ch.2, p.30

Map of house numbers (with thanks to Google Maps for the base outline, which shows property boundaries and roads). The pink asterisk marks William's last known location:

 

[madoodi]

This is a timeline of neighbour movements on the morning of 12 September 2014, based on information I found in Caroline Overington's book, "Missing William Tyrrell". (I've only included movements which were listed with a specific time. The book didn't explain why other movements were not given a time, or not mentioned.) I replaced people's names with their house numbers, for privacy, and to show where they were moving. "B" stands for Benaroon Drive, "E" is for Ellendale Crescent e.g. Mr 48.B represents MFC, who was staying at 48 Benaroon Drive.

All times are approximate, and all movements involve driving, I think, except where noted to be a walk.

6.00 to 6.30 am: Mr 16.B leaves (1)
6.30: Mr 31.B leaves (2)
6.30: Mr 43.B leaves on a walk via the fire trail (2)
6.30: Ms 9.B and Ms 16.B leave on a walk (2)
7.15: Mr 30.B leaves (2)
8.00: Ms 31.B sees three of her children off to the bus stop (2) or she takes them to the bus stop (3)
8.10: 19.E junior walks to the bus stop (2)
8.30: Mr 18.B leaves (2)
8.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B leave (1)
8.40: Mr 48.B (MFC) leaves (4)
8.45 to 9.00: Mr 19.E leaves (2)
8.50: Mr 43.B walks home on Benaroon Drive from Batar Creek Road (2)
9.00: Ms 30.B leaves (2)
9.00: Mr 21.B returns home (2)
9.05: Mr 10.E returns home (2)
9.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B return home (1)
10.30: Ms 43.B leaves (2)
11.06: Senior Constable Rowley arrives (5)

Notes (page numbers are from a paperback):
(1) Missing William Tyrrell, 2020, chapter 10, page 205
(2) ch.10, p.206
(3) ch.2, p.25
(4) ch.2, p.15
(5) ch.2, p.30

Map of house numbers (with thanks to Google Maps for the base outline, which shows property boundaries and roads). The pink asterisk marks William's last known location:

View attachment 258520

Thanks Stormbird. That is a great timeline! The thing that stands out is that between 9.30 and 10.30 there is no known/documented movement on the street. Which is of course understandable on a residential street with people going to work and kids going to school. Makes me think if the perpetrator(s) had been to the street before or was familiar with the neighbours' movement. Again the quietness of the street at that time is to be expected anyway.
Does anyone remember around what time the neighbour was out on Benaroon on his mower?

IMO

 

[Warshawski]

G

This is a timeline of neighbour movements on the morning of 12 September 2014, based on information I found in Caroline Overington's book, "Missing William Tyrrell". (I've only included movements which were listed with a specific time. The book didn't explain why other movements were not given a time, or not mentioned.) I replaced people's names with their house numbers, for privacy, and to show where they were moving. "B" stands for Benaroon Drive, "E" is for Ellendale Crescent e.g. Mr 48.B represents MFC, who was staying at 48 Benaroon Drive.

All times are approximate, and all movements involve driving, I think, except where noted to be a walk.

6.00 to 6.30 am: Mr 16.B leaves (1)
6.30: Mr 31.B leaves (2)
6.30: Mr 43.B leaves on a walk via the fire trail (2)
6.30: Ms 9.B and Ms 16.B leave on a walk (2)
7.15: Mr 30.B leaves (2)
8.00: Ms 31.B sees three of her children off to the bus stop (2) or she takes them to the bus stop (3)
8.10: 19.E junior walks to the bus stop (2)
8.30: Mr 18.B leaves (2)
8.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B leave (1)
8.40: Mr 48.B (MFC) leaves (4)
8.45 to 9.00: Mr 19.E leaves (2)
8.50: Mr 43.B walks home on Benaroon Drive from Batar Creek Road (2)
9.00: Ms 30.B leaves (2)
9.00: Mr 21.B returns home (2)
9.05: Mr 10.E returns home (2)
9.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B return home (1)
10.30: Ms 43.B leaves (2)
11.06: Senior Constable Rowley arrives (5)

Notes (page numbers are from a paperback):
(1) Missing William Tyrrell, 2020, chapter 10, page 205
(2) ch.10, p.206
(3) ch.2, p.25
(4) ch.2, p.15
(5) ch.2, p.30

Map of house numbers (with thanks to Google Maps for the base outline, which shows property boundaries and roads). The pink asterisk marks William's last known location:

View attachment 258520

Thanks for giving your time to this, such a great timeline & so good to have available.

Just a small comment re Mrs 43.B ..... I believe it noted at inquest it was 10.37 am. (Tyrrell neighbour faced damaging questions)

1 minute or 7 minutes - currently the scum stays put.

 

[stormbird]

G


Thanks for giving your time to this, such a great timeline & so good to have available.

Just a small comment re Mrs 43.B ..... I believe it noted at inquest it was 10.37 am. (Tyrrell neighbour faced damaging questions)

1 minute or 7 minutes - currently the scum stays put.

Warshawski,

re the 10:37 for Ms 43.B: I agree, that's the time which is usually given, so it's a bit strange that CO would list it as 7 minutes different. I came across a few things which were reported differently elsewhere, but for the timeline I just listed the times as they are stated in the book.

 

[Blues Clues]

This is a timeline of neighbour movements on the morning of 12 September 2014, based on information I found in Caroline Overington's book, "Missing William Tyrrell". (I've only included movements which were listed with a specific time. The book didn't explain why other movements were not given a time, or not mentioned.) I replaced people's names with their house numbers, for privacy, and to show where they were moving. "B" stands for Benaroon Drive, "E" is for Ellendale Crescent e.g. Mr 48.B represents MFC, who was staying at 48 Benaroon Drive.

All times are approximate, and all movements involve driving, I think, except where noted to be a walk.

6.00 to 6.30 am: Mr 16.B leaves (1)
6.30: Mr 31.B leaves (2)
6.30: Mr 43.B leaves on a walk via the fire trail (2)
6.30: Ms 9.B and Ms 16.B leave on a walk (2)
7.15: Mr 30.B leaves (2)
8.00: Ms 31.B sees three of her children off to the bus stop (2) or she takes them to the bus stop (3)
8.10: 19.E junior walks to the bus stop (2)
8.30: Mr 18.B leaves (2)
8.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B leave (1)
8.40: Mr 48.B (MFC) leaves (4)
8.45 to 9.00: Mr 19.E leaves (2)
8.50: Mr 43.B walks home on Benaroon Drive from Batar Creek Road (2)
9.00: Ms 30.B leaves (2)
9.00: Mr 21.B returns home (2)
9.05: Mr 10.E returns home (2)
9.30: Mr 51.B and Ms 51.B return home (1)
10.30: Ms 43.B leaves (2)
11.06: Senior Constable Rowley arrives (5)

Notes (page numbers are from a paperback):
(1) Missing William Tyrrell, 2020, chapter 10, page 205
(2) ch.10, p.206
(3) ch.2, p.25
(4) ch.2, p.15
(5) ch.2, p.30

Map of house numbers (with thanks to Google Maps for the base outline, which shows property boundaries and roads). The pink asterisk marks William's last known location:

View attachment 258520

Thank you so much Stormbird - this would have been time consuming.

I have seen a car timeline which I can't provide a link for and as such it is outside TOS sorry. It includes more cars although none that really raise any suspicion, mainly comings and goings. LH who was unloading groceries from the back of her car as one example.

I haven't read CO's book - did she mention the time the postie was in the street?

 

[stormbird]

Thank you so much Stormbird - this would have been time consuming.

I have seen a car timeline which I can't provide a link for and as such it is outside TOS sorry. It includes more cars although none that really raise any suspicion, mainly comings and goings. LH who was unloading groceries from the back of her car as one example.

I haven't read CO's book - did she mention the time the postie was in the street?

Blues Clues,
As far as I can see: no, CO's book doesn't give a time for the postie in Benaroon. And it suggests the postie was a man (see the "him" in the quote below), which doesn't fit with what has been reported elsewhere.

This is what the book says about the vehicle which Mr and Mrs C heard (with my notes in brackets):

"[Mr C], and his wife, [Ms C], had been out that morning, but they had returned about 9.30 a.m., to have morning tea on the deck until shortly before 11 a.m. Their house, at 51 Benaroon Drive, is diagonally opposite number 48.

Both remembered hearing what they assumed was the postie enter the street. They were half-listening for him [sic], because the [holidaying residents of No.52, across the road] had asked them to take in the mail while they were in Queensland.

'It was a very, very quiet street, you can always hear somebody coming up the road,' [Mr C] said, recalling that he turned to his wife when he heard the car, saying: 'That could be the postie.'

He thought the car had stopped to do a U-turn, or maybe turn in a circle [?], before heading off again.

'It didn't stop at [PS's], it stopped at [FGM's],' he said. 'I don't know how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. It stopped, and then it kept going.'

[Ms C] also remembers hearing that car.

'You do hear quite a lot,' she said, of Benaroon Drive. 'And I thought this could be the postie. Because it wasn't going slow, it was going reasonably fast, like the postie does.'

[Ms C] said the car paused before it went off again, and it was only when police came asking about unfamiliar vehicles in the street 'that we sat back and started to think that was maybe somebody stopping and picking William up?' said [Mr C]."

- "Missing William Tyrrell", 2020, chapter 4, pp.75-6.

BBM because to me it seems a little bit odd to have not imagined the car might be significant. But it does show the potential importance of "unknowing witnesses" who might have seen or heard something they thought was too ordinary to report.

 

[stormbird]

Thanks Stormbird. That is a great timeline! The thing that stands out is that between 9.30 and 10.30 there is no known/documented movement on the street. Which is of course understandable on a residential street with people going to work and kids going to school. Makes me think if the perpetrator(s) had been to the street before or was familiar with the neighbours' movement. Again the quietness of the street at that time is to be expected anyway.
Does anyone remember around what time the neighbour was out on Benaroon on his mower?

IMO

madoodi,

re Lawnmower Man: there's a good post in thread #39, post #1500 by Websleuther frogwell who reported after attending an inquest hearing. In summary, neighbour LH saw Lawnmower Man on the ride-on when she returned home from grocery shopping at 10:30/10:35, and later, neighbour AMS spoke to him after the first police car arrived.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Warshawski,

re the 10:37 for Ms 43.B: I agree, that's the time which is usually given, so it's a bit strange that CO would list it as 7 minutes different. I came across a few things which were reported differently elsewhere, but for the timeline I just listed the times as they are stated in the book.

I believe the difference was that the CCTV at the Tennis Club was found to be 9 minutes slow and it takes 2 minutes to drive from Benaroon Dr to there.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I'm wondering if someone who was present in the court on 26th March 2019 might be able to give me some information specifically from two witnesses? I'm not sure which of our members were present at the inquest on that day, thus my question.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

Blues Clues,
As far as I can see: no, CO's book doesn't give a time for the postie in Benaroon. And it suggests the postie was a man (see the "him" in the quote below), which doesn't fit with what has been reported elsewhere.

This is what the book says about the vehicle which Mr and Mrs C heard (with my notes in brackets):

"[Mr C], and his wife, [Ms C], had been out that morning, but they had returned about 9.30 a.m., to have morning tea on the deck until shortly before 11 a.m. Their house, at 51 Benaroon Drive, is diagonally opposite number 48.

Both remembered hearing what they assumed was the postie enter the street. They were half-listening for him [sic], because the [holidaying residents of No.52, across the road] had asked them to take in the mail while they were in Queensland.

'It was a very, very quiet street, you can always hear somebody coming up the road,' [Mr C] said, recalling that he turned to his wife when he heard the car, saying: 'That could be the postie.'

He thought the car had stopped to do a U-turn, or maybe turn in a circle [?], before heading off again.

'It didn't stop at [PS's], it stopped at [FGM's],' he said. 'I don't know how long, about as long as it takes to put a letter in the box. It stopped, and then it kept going.'

[Ms C] also remembers hearing that car.

'You do hear quite a lot,' she said, of Benaroon Drive. 'And I thought this could be the postie. Because it wasn't going slow, it was going reasonably fast, like the postie does.'

[Ms C] said the car paused before it went off again, and it was only when police came asking about unfamiliar vehicles in the street 'that we sat back and started to think that was maybe somebody stopping and picking William up?' said [Mr C]."

- "Missing William Tyrrell", 2020, chapter 4, pp.75-6.

BBM because to me it seems a little bit odd to have not imagined the car might be significant. But it does show the potential importance of "unknowing witnesses" who might have seen or heard something they thought was too ordinary to report.

Mr and Mr 51B heard a vehicle turn around in front of No 48 about 10.05am

Hoping someone who was at the inquest that day can confirm from their notes the time and how the couple described the vehicle?

 

[Loxoli]

Mr and Mr 51B heard a vehicle turn around in front of No 48 about 10.05am

Hoping someone who was at the inquest that day can confirm from their notes the time and how the couple described the vehicle?

I wasn’t aware that the Crabb’s stated the car that sounded like the postie actually stopped in front of no. 48 and that it was 10.05am. That’s very interesting indeed.

 

[ekardh]

Hello,
I don't know all the ins and outs of this case but I notice it's quite an active thread on here.
Have people abandoned the idea that William simply wandered off into the woods and got lost?
I know that large-scale searches were conducted but larger objects than a small boy have gone unnoticed before or found many years later in places already searched.
There was a good amount of woodland behind the house, and William was playing as a tiger. I could see him venturing into the woods as part of the game.
It was also a fairly remote neighbourhood. It seems unlikely that opportunist kidnappers were just hanging around and had a perfect opportunity to snatch him without anyone noticing. It does happen, I know. However, I get the impression everyone is convinced of foul play when AFAIK there is no evidence.

 

[SLouTh]

Thank you so much Stormbird - this would have been time consuming.

I have seen a car timeline which I can't provide a link for and as such it is outside TOS sorry. It includes more cars although none that really raise any suspicion, mainly comings and goings. LH who was unloading groceries from the back of her car as one example.

I haven't read CO's book - did she mention the time the postie was in the street?

Hi Blues,
I have read both books and no time was given for the Postie, and to my knowledge that info has never been released from the inquest (from the media).... there was an article at the first tranche that stated "her times had been been handed to the Police" but nothing further..... and that was also the first mention of the female Postie.....
It would be fantastic to know the actual time.....

 

[SLouTh]

Mr and Mr 51B heard a vehicle turn around in front of No 48 about 10.05am

Hoping someone who was at the inquest that day can confirm from their notes the time and how the couple described the vehicle?

I wasn't at the inquest but that info came from Beacroft's evidence if that helps.....

 

[SouthAussie]

I wasn’t aware that the Crabb’s stated the car that sounded like the postie actually stopped in front of no. 48 and that it was 10.05am. That’s very interesting indeed.

When was that stated, I wonder. As far as I am aware, they heard a vehicle - not that it stopped. Just that they heard it going up the street and turning around.


During those inquiries, a couple living on Benaroon Drive shared that they'd heard a car going towards the foster grandmother's home and turning around about the time William went missing.
Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.
Det Sgt Beacroft said though 150 metres away from the foster grandmother's home, the Crabbs could likely hear a car in the quiet street.
'Boy in Spiderman suit' seen in car the day William Tyrrell abducted

Two more neighbours both claimed to have heard what they thought was 'the postman' going up the street that morning.
They were sitting on their back deck having a cup of tea and didn't see the car itself.
Mystery surrounds unusual cars spotted William Tyrrell’s street same day the toddler disappeared | Daily Mail Online

Lia Harris: The post woman delivered the mail around ten or ten-thirty each morning, which is the time that William disappeared on September 12, 2014. And the court heard, on that particular morning she had delivered the mail earlier than she normally did.
Was it an Accident?