Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #62

[Cant run and hide]

In a daily mail article the other day they mentioned FM was spotted throwing something out FGM car window. I’m wondering if this was maybe Williams shoes? Could this be the sudden interest if he had bare feet or not??

Have the police stated that fm threw something from the car?
I haven't seen this article yet.

 

[SleepyJoe]

IIRC The police have not said they have an accident balcony theory. The media has said that.

Listen to what the police have said. They said they have new evidence. It is not speculative. They are looking for William's remains. They are searching specific areas based on specific not speculative new evidence.

100% agree

 

[The gavel]

In a daily mail article the other day they mentioned FM was spotted throwing something out FGM car window. I’m wondering if this was maybe Williams shoes? Could this be the sudden interest if he had bare feet or not??

I've thought about this and I don't think it's the shoes. Because, the shoes are foam and cheap looking and they look like they would degrade very quickly.
I've wondered if it's a murder weapon. Whether that be a garden implement, knife etc

The injury to her hand that day with a completely ridiculous reasoning (slipped and fell on a stick, seriously?) Would certainly support there being a murder weapon. IMO

 

[Trmtrm2]

If you wanted to adopt, is it a quicker process to foster initially?

Say there was a lengthy delay to adopt a child but if you fostered a child through that process and that child ended up being put up for adoption, would you then as the foster parent be most likely to be able to adopt?

I hope that makes sense....

I guess unless someone hav left children in your care maby through their will for you to adopt, the only way you can get your hands on a child is through the foster system, im not sure if there is an option to put your name down for adoption anywhere in Australia but I could be wrong, its more like other countries that you put your name down for an adoption

 

[Juju71]

Hopefully it's refused. The case is a matter of public interest and seeing as though the FF have gone to great pains to remain anonymous so nobody can identify the FD, it should be published under the same anonymity they've been afforded throughout the entire case. IMO

That's not correct. The FF have not gone to any lengths to suppress their identities. It's the law. It's for the protection and privacy of the children in their care.
This is a simple legal construct that media must adhere to.
It is not at the request of foster carers.

 

[Angeline]

The injury to her hand that day with a completely ridiculous reasoning (slipped and fell on a stick, seriously?) Would certainly support there being a murder weapon. IMO

I don't understand how one could get a graze on their hand from that. It would be interesting to know whether the graze was on the palm or top of the hand.

A graze on the palm would make sense if you fell and put your hands out on the ground to steady yourself.

I also don't understand how WT got a black eye from climbing on the FFC and falling.

 

[Juju71]

You do not even have to go that far, if WT died accidentally a coverup to protect his sister could be seen by some as a noble lie.

I keep reading people saying "I can't believe someone would do XYZ".
Trust me people of all backgrounds have done absolutely everything you can think of and worse.
Forget about what someone could do and follow the evidence.

Sociopaths are incredibly common in our society, people truly underestimate their prevalence, they would have no issue in covering this up and feel justified in doing so.

Psychopaths and sociopaths make up between 1% and 4% of society. I understand how we true crime buffs might believe it's more common. It's actually not.

 

[Estelle]

katydid23 said: ↑
But that child was seen standing up in the back seat. If he was able to stand up, why would she have to kill him? That makes no sense to me.

My reply: IMO the only way FFC could have gotten away with this is to have no witnesses and no noise from a scream from a fall and so on. So IMO probably there was not a child's car seat in FGM's car so IMO FCC could have told WT secretly that "we are going to see Daddy" so come with me in Granny's car. So she could have quickly put him in the back seat of the car and could have suffocated/strangled him on the way then put his body in a creek weighted down. It worries me about the red string found recently. ALL MOO

New clue found despite heavy rains hampering search for William Tyrrell

 

[The gavel]

I don't understand how one could get a graze on their hand from that. It would be interesting to know whether the graze was on the palm or top of the hand.

A graze on the palm would make sense if you fell and put your hands out on the ground to steady yourself.

I also don't understand how WT got a black eye from climbing on the FFC and falling.

Nor do I. I've only ever seen black eyes on people who were punched, elbowed, thrown or had a nose job. The BM was also concerned about him being too skinny. ​

 

[BeaSmith]

I don't understand how one could get a graze on their hand from that. It would be interesting to know whether the graze was on the palm or top of the hand.

A graze on the palm would make sense if you fell and put your hands out on the ground to steady yourself.

I also don't understand how WT got a black eye from climbing on the FFC and falling.

The last person seeing him alive having a hand injury is indeed suss, hope they have a photo of that

Do we know if the black eye incident was before or after the emails requesting to reduce visitation with the BPs?

 

[organised_chaos]

Psychopaths and sociopaths make up between 1% and 4% of society. I understand how we true crime buffs might believe it's more common. It's actually not.

At the extremities - 4% of the australian population is 1036379.

 

[katydid23]

Nor do I. I've only ever seen black eyes on people who were punched, elbowed, thrown or had a nose job. The BM was also concerned about him being too skinny. ​

So many 3 and 4 yr olds go through a 'skinny' phase because they are having rapid growth spurts and growing taller very fast---and they get skinny. Go look at a preschool and see how many kids look really skinny at that age.

 

[The gavel]

So many 3 and 4 yr olds go through a 'skinny' phase because they are having rapid growth spurts and growing taller very fast---and they get skinny. Go look at a preschool and see how many kids look really skinny at that age.

What's your opinion on what happened?

 

[The gavel]

At the extremities - 4% of the australian population is 1036379.

Higher % of lawyers and police are psychopaths too

 

[Estelle]

Psychopaths and sociopaths make up between 1% and 4% of society. I understand how we true crime buffs might believe it's more common. It's actually not.

However, how do you know that FCC could not be one of the 1-4%?????

 

[The gavel]

The last person seeing him alive having a hand injury is indeed suss, hope they have a photo of that

Do we know if the black eye incident was before or after the emails requesting to reduce visitation with the BPs?

Before. The BM could still see it on the last visit. The visit where William was on her lap and more affectionate than normal.

 

[organised_chaos]

Higher % of lawyers and police are psychopaths too

and surgeons and journalists...here are the top 10 professions that psychopaths gravitate towards...

The 10 professions with the most psychopaths

 

[drsleuth]

I’ve been reading through the Inquest threads and came across something that I couldn’t find a definitive answer to.

MFC said he returned around 10:35 and drove into the garage. He met FFC, realised what was happening then ran around looking and calling out for WT. FFC called Police who arrived at 11:06.

First responder testified at the inquest that he did not search the garage or the cars. More specifically he stated:

“I would have tried to do it, but it was either locked or too heavy for a young child to lift himself’

Was the garage door open for MFC to just drive on in? Presumably, he closed it behind him?

Is that why LE have been focussing on the garage floor?


Police officer takes stand in Tyrrell inquest

Just wondering, if LE have gone back to the start then this could be one of the loose ends they’re tying up. Unless there is an explanation RE an auto door.

If I re-call correctly he didn't check the garage or the attic, all cars were checked.

I wonder if it was a Skype video or just voice call? Did they ever find that out?

The call lasted approx 40 odd minutes from memory & it was checked out too!

OMG the statement from FFC remembering so much detail of the guy in his late 50s with a beer belly driving past!! Isn't this the same woman that told the 000 receptionist there were no cars around? Suddenly recalling all these other things in so much detail!! How can you tell someone has a beer belly when they drive past?? Did he get out of the car and parade around for her? This seems so far fetched - I have never read this statement before. Can you post the link where this is from please?

This info is from the inquest & has been discussed here at length & in MSM. She would have been asked 100's of questions around these cars before the inquest many years later IMO

Yes ... it might have been without video. He needed a stable internet connection during the call, is all we really know.
I believe he was meeting with a Qld client (link provided previously) and perhaps this call involved internet data of some kind


"A short time later, William Tyrrell's foster father arrived back from Lakewood, a 10-minute drive away, where he had gone in search of a better internet connection for a work conference call."
This is what we know about the William Tyrrell case

Correct!

I wonder why the foster father wasn't at the inquest joining the foster mother, i can understand he would use work as an excuse but surely someone can take a few days off and be there for some of the time for something so important when they call him their son and run the camping for him to be returned wouldn't being there be a priority

He was there for some of the inquest & wasn't for some parts, just the same as the Bio mother & father.

He says plump women blonde hair piled on top of head , wearing white shirt sleeved top - no description of car ?

The cars have been described & discussed here way back & in MSM

But that child was seen standing up in the back seat. If he was able to stand up, why would she have to kill him? That makes no sense to me.

Me either

At the time, he did not know there was a missing child. So the importance of reporting it was absent in his mind.

He knew that night when it was on the local news

I just noticed, FF said he got FG the paper from town that day because she had asked him to. But in this photo she is sitting there reading the paper. Might be nothing.

Yep she was reading an older local paper, MFC was getting her a current paper, which from memory he picked up in Kendall.....

I also compared it to another photo and the person in that chair is in completely different clothes.

They are the same IMO

Highly likely it is in the official police statement timeline which the public has never been privy to IMO

Yep, I agree

Ellendale Crescent.
The 000 call they asked the Cross st, its Ellendale crescent but she didn't know that she said its her mother's house she wouldn't know she seams to be trying to ask people, basically made a issue of it, I thought it was so odd especially when the 2nd last visit was a street Christmas party her perents lived there for quite some time,

So I just wanted to confirm was the cars that she decided on her drive to Port Macquarie airport were now on the street was in fact on Ellendale Crescent? The cross street that on the 000 she made a big issue of not knowing the name of?

Could this be a tractic that she didn't lie or make anything up, that no cars were on her mother's street but were on the cross street that she has no clue what the name is at a point in time were the children 2nd last visit was on the street for a Christmas st party and her mother is selling so wouldn't they maby hav looked at tiles and might be a time that they would know the side street name

I would love to see this 000 call on one of them crime shows every thing is so sus, you think it was important to say the foster child in my care has disappeared, you think it would be important to say she drove to the pony club and he wasn't there, I think its unusual to mention a frecle when parting the hair unless the child was dead and unidentifiable that they would only be able to identify by a frecle under his hair, if she didn't want the neighbours to know that she is fostering why be worried about that the child is missing the police should of been called before a drive to the pony club, I don't understand why FGM didn't take the initiative to make the 000 and say my daughter is driving to the pony club to look for her foster child that was only meters away

Why would the 000 caller need to know exactly where she looked thou?

Totally agree. The freckle isn’t a distinguishing feature for the purposes of finding a child who’s wandered off and from a distance would help police differentiating him from other children.

Secondly, you’d mention a drive to the pony club in the 000 call if that had happened. She ONLY mentions having looked up and down benaroon dr.

Thirdly, she essentially waited an hour to call 000 to report a missing 3yo. But initially claimed it was 5mins - maybe 10-15.

Where do get an hour from?? Link?

How soon after did WT's sister give her first account of events? That day? Days later?

And Nana? That day?

Do we have records of either's first account of that day's events?

<modsnip>

That day & days later, it's in the 2 books we can discuss here & the one we can't ......

Im sure the drive to the pony club was before the 000 call can anyone confirm or is it unknown when the pony club drive was

This was discussed at length recently , right here on this forum.....

Though I would add the cuppa tea was warm after first police arrived i wonder if that mug she said she takes it in was left inside or outdoors

Where has it been said the cup of tea was warm???

Those don't seem like believable motives to me.

I can believe maybe she is a psychopath and has no feelings and killed him.

But I don't believe her motive would be she didn't want to adopt him so she killed him. I guess I don't know enough about her to know if she was capable of doing so. Its just seems hard to accept, seeing her whole family sitting happily on that deck outside, playing and colouring pictures for her father's gravesite. And the whole time she is planning to kill the 3 yr old in the next few minutes, and dump him in the short time window that her husband was gone?

Seems a stretch to me too Katy....

She said he was only meters away, but she drives all the way to the pony club to look for a child that is only meters away away from her on her mother's property, it opens up a time frame of no alibi, and I think at this stage we may not know the order of events as to what stage in the search for WT did she hav no alibi driving to the pony school, everyone's statement is a little different, the tea is still warm after all this time

Who said the tea was still warm??

When they have mention FFC and MFC going for a drive - that is pointess - no specific destination - they could be passing letters with information to each other or even writing something down which is not picked up by the bugging device. MOO

Why go for a drive to do that thou, they could easily do that at home.

Yes and what gets me is why would you drive all that way to look for a child that you’ve said ‘doesn’t wander off’…
Also who makes a cup of tea when your child is missing. If my kid went missing I wouldn’t be sitting around making a cup of tea that’s for sure! I wonder if there was anything else added to that tea (eg a stiff drink).

Actually ,the cups of tea were made before William was missing. It's all in these threads

drsleuth, who was at the inquest, has reported to us that FGM was reading an old newspaper.

Yep

I feel like the Four Corners episode should be required viewing for this thread:

Whatever ends up happening, there have been so many miscarriages of justice in multiple government agencies. Amazing that basically a 3-year-old boy is responsible for exposing so many ills in the system. I hope more people start paying attention.

I think everyone who has been following this case & on these threads for 7 years would have watched this??

The problem isn't that she went searching in the car. The Problem is that she didn't tell police or anyone else that she went searching in the car. IMO

But she did..

She didn’t mention it in the 000 call. She said she had searched up and down Benaroon and that’s all.

Why did she need to mention it in the 000 call, what would it have changed??

Does anyone think that FGM might be the informant by way of her will and probate?

No

Same here, SA. I have been here since the beginning and that is the first time I read this, too. I am worried a lot of these new posters have read too many SM posts and rumours and not enough of the earlier threads here. I am very concerned that someone may post something here based off gossip and rumour on FB and have this thread shut down.

I wouldn't be surprised if I read on here he was taken by an alien....

I keep seeing reference to the FFC walkthrough but I can't find it on youtube or by searching the forum. Can someone please link it for me (I'm sorry, absolutely hopeless of me I know).

It's been posted here recently & is easily found.

I seem to remember hearing that going horse riding was part of the days plans and that it was all booked in. Maybe it was a podcast I listened to - maybe it was “Nowhere Child” by The Australian. Does anyone else recall this?

I've never heard that before, can you remember where you heard that from??

Nearly everyone who commits a crime convinces people of their innocence, until they don't and the evidence catches up with them.

Also, we haven't had the ability to even view her facial expressions, so it's easier to manipulate behind a sheath of protection. She's been completely shielded from any scrutiny whether it be though the FACS guidelines or police or having anything about her removed off the internet.

I agree that it was probably a snap decision, a frenzied attack, even. The reason I think this is because if she had planned it, her story wouldn't be full of gaping contradictions. If she planned it, she did a very bad job. However, covering it up, especially for 7 years with the expense and lives it's destroyed makes it a lot worse than a simple heat of the moment attack. IMO

BBM: some of have , she was on full few everyday at the inquest.

The FM often says one thing and does the other, if you analyse her statements. It's hinting at pathological lying.

In regards to Jubelin, a lot of people fangirl over him and even refer to him as "jubes" as if they have some personal relationship with him. So bizarre.

I have often wondered if their professional relationship didn't cross the line into something more intimate, like close friendship perhaps. Might be another reason he didn't scrutinise her properly. IMO

So now we are "speculating " that she was having an affair with GJ

C.O book

Do you refrences for that . It's been stated before we need to do this

I agree.. Similarities to keli lane

No similarities IMO

Yes IMO it was MFC who probably wanted a family - a girl and a boy. Maybe it was a second marriage when they had not had children - maybe they tried IVF and it did not work out. Maybe FFC reluctantly agreed with the idea to keep her husband happy.

Maybe they just both wanted to give 2 children, who had already had a hard start to life, a loving family home???

 

[The gavel]

If I re-call correctly he didn't check the garage or the attic, all cars were checked.



The call lasted approx 40 odd minutes from memory & it was checked out too!



This info is from the inquest & has been discussed here at length & in MSM. She would have been asked 100's of questions around these cars before the inquest many years later IMO



Correct!




He was there for some of the inquest & wasn't for some parts, just the same as the Bio mother & father.



The cars have been described & discussed here way back & in MSM



Me either



He knew that night when it was on the local news



They are the same IMO



Yep, I agree



Why would the 000 caller need to know exactly where she looked thou?



Where do get an hour from?? Link?



That day & days later, it's in the 2 books we can discuss here & the one we can't ......



This was discussed at length recently , right here on this forum.....



Where has it been said the cup of tea was warm???



Seems a stretch to me too Katy....



Who said the tea was still warm??



Why go for a drive to do that thou, they could easily do that at home.



Actually ,the cups of tea were made before William was missing. It's all in these threads



Yep



I think everyone who has been following this case & on these threads for 7 years would have watched this??



But she did..




Why did she need to mention it in the 000 call, what would it have changed??



No



I wouldn't be surprised if I read on here he was taken by an alien....



It's been posted here recently & is easily found.



I've never heard that before, can you remember where you heard that from??



BBM: some of have , she was on full few everyday at the inquest.



So now we are "speculating " that she was having an affair with GJ



Do you refrences for that . It's been stated before we need to do this


No similarities IMO



Maybe they just both wanted to give 2 children, who had already had a hard start to life, a loving family home???

Please don't misquote me. I said I was wondering if she became close friends with Jubelin. I didn't say affair.

 

[JBowie]

Psychopaths and sociopaths make up between 1% and 4% of society. I understand how we true crime buffs might believe it's more common. It's actually not.

Psychopathy & sociopathy:

• 1% of the general population are psychopaths
  Dr. Robert Hare, Criminal psychology researcher, Creator of the PCL-R
• 4% of Americans are sociopaths
  Dr. Martha Stout, Harvard University psychologist
  In the 2005 book, "The Sociopath Next Door" Harvard University psychologist Martha Stout claims one out of every 25 people in America is a sociopath. She defines sociopath as a person with no conscience.
• 5-15% of Americans are Almost psychopaths
  Dr. Ronald Schouten, Associate professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School
  Ronald Schouten refers to the "almost psychopaths" in his book "Almost a Psychopath"

In more specific areas

• 20-25% of prisoners are psychopaths
  Dr. Robert Hare, Criminal psychology researcher, Creator of the PCL-R
• 4% of CEOs and Business Leaders
  Paul Babiak (with Robert Hare), Research psychologist and executive coach
  Hare and Babiak noted that about 29% of corporate psychopaths are also bullies.
• 10% of people in the financial services industry are psychopaths
  Dr. Christopher Bayer, New York psychologist & psychoanalyst, Wall Street Psychologist
• 10% of Wall street employees are psychopaths
  Sherree DeCovny, Writer on CFA magazine
  As written in the March/April 2012 issue of the CFA magazine

I like this bit: 5-15% of Americans are Almost psychopaths