Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[SouthAussie]

This is from a legal site …

Protection Against Self Incrimination​

If you are called as a witness and placed in the position where answering a question or providing evidence will incriminate you, you must still answer the question and produce the evidence. Under Section 18B.2, any information that you do give in a NSWCC hearing cannot be used against you in civil or criminal proceedings. Section 18B.3 allows evidence you give to be used in proceedings related to contempt of NSW Crime Commission investigations.

NSW Crime Commission

An article on NSW Courts and Commissions, giving information about Nsw Crime Commission.

www.armstronglegal.com.au

I would suggest that FM Barrister will argue this point extensively.

The general wording states they can’t use evidence from the NSWCC, but whether or not there is a technicality with the law and the wording, who knows???

If a child was testifying as a direct witness would that make a difference?? Do they have enough other evidence to make a legal case, without the NSWCC evidence??
If not, you would think they would drop the case???

I am not sure if the “contempt” (Section 18B.3) would hold, as FM has been found not guilty of Lying to the NSWCC???

You do raise a good point SA.

IMO

I am reading virtually the same thing, in the Act. That any evidence that a person gives cannot be used against them, but they can be charged with lying (if they are thought to have lied), at a Crime Commission hearing.

Crime Commission Act 2012 No 66


Also, this ....
Section 39(2) provides that an answer made, or document or thing produced, by a witness at a hearing before the Commission is not admissible in evidence against the person in any civil or criminal proceedings or in any disciplinary proceedings.

An exception includes where the evidence is utilised in proceedings seeking to prosecute a witness on the basis that their evidence was false or misleading.

CRIME COMMISSION NSW SUMMONS- WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW


Which seems to highlight to me that the police didn't care about the consequences for sister. They were single focused.
And they still didn't find William.

1. They sat on the alleged assault, did not notify FACS for seemingly quite a while
2. They reportedly have a weak alleged assault case
3. When they did notify FACS, sister was instantly removed ... no foster family counselling given, no attempts at reconciliation with the foster family, just gone from the home she had lived in for (was it?) 11 years .. most of her life
4. Was she taken away with just the clothes on her back? None of her favourite things?
5. This life instability/event could be very damaging for sister during her teen years and beyond
6. I would bet that sister didn't know this would be the consequence of angrily rebelling against another foster child, she might have thought she could stay and the other child would go.
(all IMO)

I feel very sad for her.

 

[SouthAussie]

After hearing evidence from IN at the inquest I fully expected the Police to re open the case of woman found in the Manning River?? (When FA alleged he had scratches from oysters … ) Anyone else recall that??? Margaret Cox.


Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

And

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71


IMO

I wonder if they kept any relevant evidence from that murder, and if DNA evidence can now help them successfully prosecute FA.

Same with the schoolgirl .... is there a law that says he can't be prosecuted 3 times for the same murder?
Perhaps if new and compelling evidence arises (DNA evidence has come a long way), they can prosecute again.

Helen Harrison, murdered 1968
Minister backed paedophile Frank Abbott in court twice: William Tyrrell inquest hears

Margaret Cox, murdered 1996
William Tyrrell inquest: ‘I didn’t want Frank Abbott near my kids’

 

[SLouTh]

Same with the schoolgirl .... is there a law that says they can't be prosecuted 3 times for the same murder?

It would be highly unusual, if it has even been done before in Australian Legal Courts, for a third trial, as they have already tried him twice already ….
A second trial doesn’t happen very often with the Australian Law of “Double Jeopardy“.

What Does Double Jeopardy Mean?​

The term “double jeopardy” only applies in the criminal court in Australia. Section 17 of the Criminal Code Act outlines a defence that an accused person who has already been tried and convicted or acquitted upon indictment for a specific offence cannot be charged with the same offence again.

This law was designed to ensure that persons found not guilty for an offence would not continue to be questioned by police and charged again for the same offence. The person charged should be allowed to assume that their legal matter has been finalised.

What is Double Jeopardy in Australia and Does it Apply to Your Case?

If you have been tried and found not guilty for an offence, does double jeopardy to your case in Australia?

guestlawyers.com.au

 

[Chrissy74]

The link you provided says that Mr Craddock made that statement on 18th March 2020.
With FA scheduled to give testimony the following week, but the inquest was adjourned. Link

AB testified on 6th October 2020.
The inquest concluded on 8th October 2020.
Plenty of time for the police to speak with AB between March and October. imo

Regardless, an inquest attendee says that AB was that person .. and I have no reason to disbelieve that.

The Coroner also told the court “there’s nothing in relation to this matter which I consider to be a cold case”.

Is the coroner suggesting in her statement Ws case is solvable?

 

[Couldbe]

It was sad to learn of what was revealed in relation to the defence of the FM in referring to her alleged assault charge.
William Tyrrell’s foster mother denied mental health application over alleged assault of young girl
“Magistrate Peter Feather said: “Seems that the alleged victim began to act up to some extent.”

.... was diagnosed with major depressive disorder and PTSD, and some of her mental ill-health relates to the “difficult relationship she had with her mother and the loss of her mother in most recent years … in fairly difficult circumstances,” he said.

It was unlikely that .... would ever re-offend, the court was told.”

 

[SouthAussie]

Looks like the NSW Govt appeal is getting ready to start.




NSW Supreme Court List

"A directions hearing is a short hearing to decide matters related to the timing of when things happen during the proceeding." Link

 

[LolaAngelina]

Looks like the NSW Govt appeal is getting ready to start.


View attachment 419761

NSW Supreme Court List

"A directions hearing is a short hearing to decide matters related to the timing of when things happen during the proceeding." Link

Thanks SA, this will be very interesting. Also who spells Harry that way??

 

[JBowie]

Also who spells Harry that way??

It's almost harried ... which I think is appropriate in his case.

 

[FromGermany1]

Thanks SA, this will be very interesting. Also who spells Harry that way??

Harrie is a variant form of Harry (Old German): the English variant spelling of Henri.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Harrie is a variant form of Harry (Old German): the English variant spelling of Henri.

Oh very interesting, thanks.

 

[SouthAussie]

Not seeing anything about the Directions Hearing today, for the appeal by the State of NSW against BS.

But I do notice that a further Directions Hearing has been set for 31st May, then two dates for the Hearing - 13th and 14th June.

Search NSW Court and Tribunal Lists | NSW Online Registry

onlineregistry.lawlink.nsw.gov.au

 

[Burtrito]

Is there any news from the inquest? When will findings be presented?

 

[SLouTh]

Is there any news from the inquest? When will findings be presented?

That is an excellent question that none of us know the answer to….


Today is International Missing Childrens Day

As the world marks International Missing Children’s Day today, these are the 63 Australian children that vanished without a trace.

Some, like William Tyrrell are household names, etched in the minds of Australians. Others are less well known, but for their parents and families, the wondering and hoping and searching never ends.

SNIP>>>>>>>

The crucial time period to obtain evidence after a person vanished was the first 48 hours – and the nature of missing persons cases made that hard.
“There’s witnesses we can’t find or people who have forgotten information, or don’t remember details. And the devil is in the detail,” he said.(Det Insp Sims)

https://www.news.com.au/national/63-australian-children-who-have-vanished-without-a-trace/news-story/184622941e0b5a67a2d8dfdd4117012a

 

[Couldbe]

That is an excellent question that none of us know the answer to….


Today is International Missing Childrens Day

As the world marks International Missing Children’s Day today, these are the 63 Australian children that vanished without a trace.

Some, like William Tyrrell are household names, etched in the minds of Australians. Others are less well known, but for their parents and families, the wondering and hoping and searching never ends.

SNIP>>>>>>>

The crucial time period to obtain evidence after a person vanished was the first 48 hours – and the nature of missing persons cases made that hard.
“There’s witnesses we can’t find or people who have forgotten information, or don’t remember details. And the devil is in the detail,” he said.(Det Insp Sims)

https://www.news.com.au/national/63-australian-children-who-have-vanished-without-a-trace/news-story/184622941e0b5a67a2d8dfdd4117012a

Thankyou Slouth, for highlighting the existence of the many children who have disappeared ….. never to be returned to their families.

JMO – The circumstances surrounding those disappearances would have some elements in common, but others that are not common across those 63 children in their removals.

Never giving up hope on solving what has happened to these children seems to help with the despair!

 

[Detective Willy]

William Tyrrell foster father quizzed over mystery phone

William Tyrrell's foster father was interrogated about a mystery phone registered in his name which was disconnected just three days before his foster son vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I can’t say I recall reading this before

 

[Couldbe]

William Tyrrell foster father quizzed over mystery phone

William Tyrrell's foster father was interrogated about a mystery phone registered in his name which was disconnected just three days before his foster son vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I can’t say I recall reading this before

JMO – I wonder if Detectives then pursued questioning the Foster Mother about this mystery phone? If it turned out that the Foster Mother knew about it, would the phone have been used to make use of its camera?

William Tyrrell foster father quizzed over mystery phone
“'I wonder whether than might have been (the foster mother's) what do you call it, you know the internet cards ... no idea.'
Detective: 'So ... that phone there ... is the only phone'.
Foster father: "Yep, yep ... that's bizarre. It's Telstra too ... no idea.'”

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't understand, why one owns a cell phone and doesn't use it for 9 months. What might be the trick behind this? There has to be a certain ruse, I believe.

 

[Warshawski]

I don't understand, why one owns a cell phone and doesn't use it for 9 months. What might be the trick behind this? There has to be a certain ruse, I believe.

Hi FromGermany. It’s always seemed quite a strange to me, but perhaps for a different reason.

However ‘strange’ can also be quite innocent.

IMO the ‘terminology‘ being used of ‘phone’ is a tad misleading.

I don’t believe Police were referencing an actual ‘handset / phone’, but instead were talking about another ‘mobile number’ appearing in JS’s Telstra account - which showed no activity in the 9 mths it was connected.
(according to the comments in the article provided above by Detective Willy)

JS said he’d had the same number for 9 years.

He also said that he upgrades his iPhone version regularly.

It’s many years since my career in mobile technology however I think there’s still only 2 options to get a new version handset -
Buy 1 ‘outright’
or
do what many people often do and that’s get a ‘new contract’ which will provide a new phone / handset at a heavily subsidised price / certain plans will give a ‘free’ handset

I‘m wondering if JS previously always purchased his new version iPhones outright, however if finances got a bit tighter, perhaps that outlay wasn’t viable in a lump sum, and the decision was made to get another contract, throw the new SiM in the drawer & put old SIM in new Phone ( & pay the additional monthly fee for the new contract). If he didn’t manage the home finances he may not have even been aware.

Now I’ll go back to what about this seemed ‘strange’ to me:
it’s that it was disconnected after 9 months.
Imo, these contracts are minimum 12 months duration

So for me, I’m interested in why it was disconnected at that time, 3 days prior to their hurried & early Sydney departure - a disconnection that imo will have added sizeable fees on to the next phone bill.

anyway, all just my thoughts & opinions, as we chat around the collective table and I hope everyone is keeping safe & well.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

DBM

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't see why it's hard to understand. Some people don't like mobile phones because they like to talk to people in person.

Some find them impersonal and don't like the feeling that they have to be always contactable.

I know a few people who don't even own one, but I can understand why they might feel the need to own one and only use it when they have to. I have heard of people who have them but rarely use them, and only if they have to.
Like once or twice a year.

I think, a successful business man has at least one cell phone in usage nowadays. Anything else would surprise me.