Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #78

[SLouTh]

What if the analysis was inconclusive?

How would you really prove either time? I think the metadata would need to be synched to something to which the foster family had no access--eg a cloud account belonging to the camera maker. They might do that sort of thing with cars, but cameras, no idea, I'd be doubtful.

I have no idea either … but I am certainly not an IT person …. But why bother doing a forensic meta data test if they can’t prove it ?? Either way ???

Would a Coroner order a test that would only yield more doubt? rather than a conclusive result??

IMO

 

[SLouTh]

What if the analysis was inconclusive?

How would you really prove either time? I think the metadata would need to be synched to something to which the foster family had no access--eg a cloud account belonging to the camera maker. They might do that sort of thing with cars, but cameras, no idea, I'd be doubtful.

What I find more doubtful now that the NSWCC has been involved, is will we ever know the whole truth of the matter ….. if they are above the law, and can make an offer, that doesn’t reflect on an alleged POI, being involved ……

Then how do we honestly know, for sure, that we are not in the midst of seeing that plan play out?? (A bit like an elaborate “sting” in reverse)

Perhaps time will tell ….

Imo

 

[Awakening]

I was listening to a podcast on my drive this morning and wondered if we had this technology in Australia and if we had it at the time William disappeared?

“The disappearance of 13-year old Yara Gambirasio became known as the murder that obsessed Italy for years. The teenager disappeared on November 26, 2010 just a few hundred yards away from her house.

The experienced magistrate, Letizia Ruggeri, was called in to lead the investigation. Ruggeri and her investigative team learned that Yara’s cell phone pinged a cell tower in Mapello, a town a few miles away, at 6:49 p.m. on the evening she disappeared.

Ruggeri and her team traced all the cell phones that passed through Mapello that evening, which was over 15,000 cell phones.

One of the cell phones that investigators intercepted was the phone of a Moroccan man, Mohammed Fikri. On one of these phone calls, Fikri was recorded as saying “forgive me God, I didn’t kill her”.

However, Fikri was quickly ruled out as a possible suspect in Yara’s disappearance.”

https://forensictales.com/murder-of-yara-gambirasio/

Does anyone know if police have this technology in Australia?

Where police can retrospectively identify all phone calls in the area and intercept the discussions?

If they could do this then this would pick up any nefarious calls FM made or a paedophile who abducted WT?

 

[Awakening]

000 call at 10:58am
Police arrival at 11:06am
FF arrived at just after 10:30am

From 09:40 - 10:30 ( for example ) is not much time for an accident to occur, a hastily made plan to be made under extreme stress, a drive and disposal, and car back in FGM carport , before FF arrived back at FGM….
And a plan made under those circumstances that could fool the Police for 9 years ??
The timeline is just so tight ….

Honestly I don’t know ?? But to me there is still no hard evidence …. (Loads of discrepancies.. yes)

IMO

Well I couldn’t do it. But being a true crime tragic, I’ve been surprised and shocked by the little time some killers have taken to murder their victim, dispose of the body and evidence and then casually slip back into life appearing normal to everyone around them.

It’s possible is what I’m saying.

And whether FM or someone else was responsible, to me they’ve had a certain amount of luck (for lack of a better word) to have gotten away with it for as long as they have.

 

[Awakening]

What if the analysis was inconclusive?

How would you really prove either time? I think the metadata would need to be synched to something to which the foster family had no access--eg a cloud account belonging to the camera maker. They might do that sort of thing with cars, but cameras, no idea, I'd be doubtful.

From my internet searches, digital camera forensics is a bit different to computer forensics and the exif data can be manipulated including date and time.

“There are some portions of EXIF data that can be manipulated by the user, so they can’t be viewed as reliable on their own merits, that being the image description, date and time, author, and in some cases the GPS timestamp can be changed through the settings long before photographs are produced, which leads to skewed data results upon initial examination.

There also savvy users who know how to remove EXIF data prior to disseminating photographs or video, so when you analyze the file, you come up with a lot of blanks.”

Digital Evidence, EXIF Data, and Law Enforcement Agencies

Digital evidence EXIF data acts as a second layer of data in digital evidence that we can use to obtain exacting information concerning a crime, and also can serve as a way to eliminate suspects.

caseguard.com

 

[SLouTh]

Does anyone know if police have this technology in Australia?

Where police can retrospectively identify all phone calls in the area and intercept the discussions?

If they could do this then this would pick up any nefarious calls FM made or a paedophile who abducted WT?

The 7 Documentary mentioned that all the phone data was downloaded from 2 nearby towers . . So I would assume the Police went thru that data meticulously…

I honestly don’t know if Aus has that technology to intercept phone calls already made, but I assume the AFP does … or could access it if required …

If a paedofile didn’t have their phone turned on, then it would be untraceable .. and IIRC FA did not have his phone switched on that day, for example …..

IMO

 

[JLZ]

Does anyone know if police have this technology in Australia?

Where police can retrospectively identify all phone calls in the area and intercept the discussions?

If they could do this then this would pick up any nefarious calls FM made or a paedophile who abducted WT?

I don't think the article said where the recording came from. I don't believe the telcos routinely record conversations. There are records of which phone called which phone and for how long, and ping records identifying phones moving through the area. At one time it was reported that the Kendall ping data was not useful because too many cars passed through on the nearby motorway. Apparently it was too many to check. That decision may have been reconsidered, I don't know.

 

[FromGermany1]

I think we need to also consider the timeline. Alive and well at 9:40am, missing by 10:05-10:15am.

Not a heck of a lot of time for an incident to happen, realise William was deceased and could not be saved, hurry to find a bag/container, stuff William into that, chuck the bag into a vehicle, cart it off to who-knows-where (where he couldn't be found), get home and "pretend" to look for William.

imo

The time was only sufficient to "cart him off" ALIVE to some place in the neighborhood and give him to an unknown person, who may have been an acquaintance of FGM and may have been a pedo also. Maybe somebody waited for this handing over, where the rusty old car was dumped overhead? That location was years later once more in the discussion as an area, which was treated mysteriously (media) and owned by an unnamed person, if I remember well (and vague unfortunately, I admit).
I would like to know, what ever came of this piece of land and his secret owner. And why was it a new lead once in the search for little W at all?

 

[JLZ]

What I find more doubtful now that the NSWCC has been involved, is will we ever know the whole truth of the matter ….. if they are above the law, and can make an offer, that doesn’t reflect on an alleged POI, being involved ……

Then how do we honestly know, for sure, that we are not in the midst of seeing that plan play out?? (A bit like an elaborate “sting” in reverse)

Perhaps time will tell ….

Imo

I don't have any anxiety about that. For one thing I don't think the coroner would co-operate.

 

[SouthAussie]

Does anyone know if police have this technology in Australia?

Where police can retrospectively identify all phone calls in the area and intercept the discussions?

If they could do this then this would pick up any nefarious calls FM made or a paedophile who abducted WT?

In the case you are speaking of the recording was due to a wiretap. It was not due to a telco retaining a recording of the phone call. I had to look further into that case as I know that telcos do not record external phone conversations. And they advise you if your conversation with the telco itself is going to be recorded.

This is the info that a telco retains .... the source, the destination, the date, the time and the duration of a communication. Link


Ruggeri put wiretaps on hundreds of phones. Her team also tried to trace the owners of all the handsets – some 15,000 – which had passed through Mapello on the day of Yara’s disappearance. One of these belonged to a Moroccan man called Mohammed Fikri. In one wiretapped conversation, in late November, the interpreter heard the phrase: “Forgive me God, I didn’t kill her”. Link

 

[SouthAussie]

Well I couldn’t do it. But being a true crime tragic, I’ve been surprised and shocked by the little time some killers have taken to murder their victim, dispose of the body and evidence and then casually slip back into life appearing normal to everyone around them.

It’s possible is what I’m saying.

And whether FM or someone else was responsible, to me they’ve had a certain amount of luck (for lack of a better word) to have gotten away with it for as long as they have.

I am presuming that in the cases you are speaking of, there was some kind of evidence showing that the killer was the killer? Enough to know they murdered and concealed in a short period of time and then blended back into normal life?

In this case, some 9 years on, there is still no evidence of what happened to William. (As stated by Lonergan recently ... "we simply do not know what happened to him")

 

[bearbear]

in regards to the photo, imo wasnt it reported ff was very good with computers and tech etc, it was in some news article but i cant find it?

 

[SouthAussie]

in regards to the photo, imo wasnt it reported ff was very good with computers and tech etc, it was in some news article but i cant find it?

As @Awakening said above ... "There also savvy users who know how to remove EXIF data prior to disseminating photographs or video, so when you analyze the file, you come up with a lot of blanks.”

And there is your forensic evidence of tampering ... a lot of blanks.

There would be evidence of tampering. If the times were manipulated. I think with this camera, forensics would have shown that the EXIF time was never touched on the camera. From the date of purchase until the time they seized the camera and all of their devices.

We have posted comments by several reliable journalists that the times on the photos were found to be correct (after the 2nd look).

imo

 

[Awakening]

In the case you are speaking of the recording was due to a wiretap. It was not due to a telco retaining a recording of the phone call. I had to look further into that case as I know that telcos do not record external phone conversations. And they advise you if your conversation with the telco itself is going to be recorded.

This is the info that a telco retains .... the source, the destination, the date, the time and the duration of a communication. Link


Ruggeri put wiretaps on hundreds of phones. Her team also tried to trace the owners of all the handsets – some 15,000 – which had passed through Mapello on the day of Yara’s disappearance. One of these belonged to a Moroccan man called Mohammed Fikri. In one wiretapped conversation, in late November, the interpreter heard the phrase: “Forgive me God, I didn’t kill her”. Link

Thanks. Certainly the podcast made it sound like they were recording all calls and police had powers to access them.

As per another poster, FA had his phone off that day which seems suspicious to me, unless this was something he routinely did.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks. Certainly the podcast made it sound like they were recording all calls and police had powers to access them.

As per another poster, FA had his phone off that day which seems suspicious to me, unless this was something he routinely did.

FA had his phone off for 3 days when William disappeared.

There is a link somewhere back in the threads. If I can easily find it, I will add it.

imo

ETA
What the link says is that FA's phone showed no movement for 3 days. IIRC his alibi was that he went to a church lunch or something with a daughter (I think) but that alibi could not be confirmed. And his phone showed no movement.
Whatever he did for those three days, his phone was in one place.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #57

Some notes about Part 2, 7News Investigates: The Disappearance of William Tyrrell (link goes to 7Plus which only works if you have an account and are in Australia, I think): Former friend of FA, "Steve": - FA got his pension on Thursday 11 Sep 2014 (the day before William went missing) and...

www.websleuths.com

 

[Awakening]

This reads to me that it’s possible for telcos to store calls and emails. It’s a bit vague, and I’m not sure that the public would know exactly what police and government have access to. MOO.

“Records of communications such as calls, SMSs and emails can also be requested, including the source, the destination, and the date, time and duration of a communication.

We also receive warrants, which can require us to provide access to the content of stored communications, or real-time access to communications as they are carried over our network”

Our legal obligation to provide information - Telstra

We provide assistance and information every day to a range of government agencies, including emergency services.

www.telstra.com.au

 

[Awakening]

FA had his phone off for 3 days when William disappeared.

There is a link somewhere back in the threads. If I can easily find it, I will add it.

imo

ETA
What the link says is that FA's phone showed no movement for 3 days. IIRC his alibi was that he went to a church lunch or something with a daughter (I think) but that alibi could not be confirmed. And his phone showed no movement.
Whatever he did for those three days, his phone was in one place.

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #57

Some notes about Part 2, 7News Investigates: The Disappearance of William Tyrrell (link goes to 7Plus which only works if you have an account and are in Australia, I think): Former friend of FA, "Steve": - FA got his pension on Thursday 11 Sep 2014 (the day before William went missing) and...

www.websleuths.com

Just read it. This guy has so many red flags, lord knows how he was ruled out and FM named as the “only POI”.

 

[SouthAussie]

This reads to me that it’s possible for telcos to store calls and emails. It’s a bit vague, and I’m not sure that the public would know exactly what police and government have access to. MOO.

“Records of communications such as calls, SMSs and emails can also be requested, including the source, the destination, and the date, time and duration of a communication.

We also receive warrants, which can require us to provide access to the content of stored communications, or real-time access to communications as they are carried over our network”

Our legal obligation to provide information - Telstra

We provide assistance and information every day to a range of government agencies, including emergency services.

www.telstra.com.au

Stored call content = voicemails. They are stored on a server somewhere. They have to be stored so a user can dial into the voicemail system and retrieve their voicemails.
We had a conversation on a thread here (I have no idea now which case it was) about the info that is stored. There were a few of us that had spent time working in the tech side of telcos.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

Just read it. This guy has so many red flags, lord knows how he was ruled out and FM named as the “only POI”.

I personally think she was the "sole POI" in the big dig. imo

What I would love to know is who was the POI who was (apparently) ruled out "on just a phone call" as stated by FM to a friend in the surveillance recordings.

 

[JLZ]

As @Awakening said above ... "There also savvy users who know how to remove EXIF data prior to disseminating photographs or video, so when you analyze the file, you come up with a lot of blanks.”

And there is your forensic evidence of tampering ... a lot of blanks.

There would be evidence of tampering. If the times were manipulated. I think with this camera, forensics would have shown that the EXIF time was never touched on the camera. From the date of purchase until the time they seized the camera and all of their devices.

We have posted comments by several reliable journalists that the times on the photos were found to be correct (after the 2nd look).

imo

Blanks are evidence of tampering, but might there be a sophisticated method of tampering that doesn't leave blanks? To reply to Slouth, you would still look for the signs of tampering, even if their absence was not absolutely conclusive proof that it didn't happen.