AZ - Gilbert resident Preston Lord, 16, murdered by "Gilbert Goons"

[Mack the Knife]

OMG That report!

I don't know you but believe you when you say you're not excusing him but I would say your empathy is misguided. Every sociopath and psychopath has a sad background. You may as well feel sorry for the dad, too. He probably had a terrible upbringing, as well. These people are dangerous and not worthy of anyone's pity. That girlfriend, too, is off her rocker. Here she was in a years long relationship with a married man, Travis, talks about what a criminal he is and still lets him pay for her phone and wants to "help" his psycho son. She's obviously a rescuer type who is attracted to violent men. That whole report is a five alarm fire and all these people are like something out of a horror movie. I hope they're all locked up for life. The dad won't be, of course, but maybe with some luck he'll get it for accessory after the fact and do 20 years. He makes me think of Joran Vander Sloot's father and his sons are just like Joran.

I disagree, and stand by my statements and feelings.

People are complicated, and so my opinions on people reflect that. If I knew about horrible things done to Travis, I would feel badly about it. Christa Pike brutally tortured and murdered Colleen Slemmer, then bragged by showing off a piece of her skull. I still am sad for the unstable and abusive way that Christa grew up, and how her cries for help went unanswered.

A different kid in Talan's shoes would not have done the same thing. But then maybe if Talan was in a different situation--if his father didn't supply him with drugs and alcohol from a young age, if LE had taken the reports of the Gilbert Goons seriously earlier, if a teacher or coach had noticed Talan's emotional and behavioral problems, if his parents set a good example for him--maybe Talan wouldn't have done what he did. Of course he's not a little kid who is developmentally unable to understand the consequences of his actions, but he's not an adult, either.

 

[formerlyme]

I am not sure how I feel about this, I am not necessarily pro death penalty actually lean more against it. But hoping this isn't signalling a lack of good strong evidence. Also not so sure who did what , I am sure this is going to be a difficult case.

Maricopa County Attorney's Office not seeking death penalty for three suspects in Preston Lord case

ABC15 learned Tuesday that the Maricopa County Attorney's Office will not seek the death penalty for three suspects in the Preston Lord case.

www.abc15.com

 

[Mack the Knife]

I am not sure how I feel about this, I am not necessarily pro death penalty actually lean more against it. But hoping this isn't signalling a lack of good strong evidence. Also not so sure who did what , I am sure this is going to be a difficult case.

Maricopa County Attorney's Office not seeking death penalty for three suspects in Preston Lord case

ABC15 learned Tuesday that the Maricopa County Attorney's Office will not seek the death penalty for three suspects in the Preston Lord case.

www.abc15.com

Is it possible it is harder to prove that the death penalty is appropriate for 3 defendants when all 7 of the alleged perpetrators are facing the exact same charges? (save for Dominic Turner, who has an aggravated robbery charge on top of the murder and kidnapping charges.)

The minors cannot be sentenced to death, so I'm wondering if the concern is a jury might get tripped up over the idea of punishing them differently for the same crime when they're all charged as adults.

 

[formerlyme]

Is it possible it is harder to prove that the death penalty is appropriate for 3 defendants when all 7 of the alleged perpetrators are facing the exact same charges? (save for Dominic Turner, who has an aggravated robbery charge on top of the murder and kidnapping charges.)

The minors cannot be sentenced to death, so I'm wondering if the concern is a jury might get tripped up over the idea of punishing them differently for the same crime when they're all charged as adults.

completely possible, I just think so many were involved it is hard to say who made the fatal blow and that would hold up a jury as well. I will find peace with it, I pray for Preston's family.

 

[Cryptic]

Someone needs to make a deep dive into the families, and arrest any adults who cooperated or aided and abetted.

I agree- the father who arranged for his son to "hide out 'n heal" would be an excellent start.

But for some reason, aiding and abetting type charges seem to be rare. Maybe the burdens of proof for these charges are high?

Or, perhaps there is some deep seated institutional reluctance to use them, especially against family, to avoid a "Big Brother" impression?

 

[formerlyme]

I agree- the father who arranged for his son to "hide out 'n heal" would be an excellent start.

But for some reason, aiding and abetting type charges seem to be rare. Maybe the burdens of proof for these charges are high?

Or, perhaps there is some deep seated institutional reluctance to use them, especially against family, to avoid a "Big Brother" impression?

it is possible victims families may go after the parents in civil court after all is said and done...

 

[Cryptic]

I think several of the crimes went unreported so the connection was not there at first.

Then factor in the "Goonies" might not have distinctive clothing, tattoos, "sign", "tags", official name etc. etc.

Though this does not "un gang" them, it can make them harder to track. This could be especially so if they are committing assaults in several different jurisdictions, including a larger city where individual assaults can get lost in the over all crime background.

Several years ago, SOCAL had to deal with a series of "established surfer groups" known to viciously attack rivals and others. Similar to some street gangs, two of the uhmm...."groups" were multi generational with one featuring a surfing MMA practicing father with two large sons in competitive MMA.

Seeking to enhance assault charges, the prosecutors tried to the surfer groups designated as youth gangs. But.... they also ran into some of the same problems:

No official group names, no clear way to establish membership via clothing or tattoos, most members had no criminal convictions, surfer groups were largely white, but had Hispanic and Asian members- so harder to establish an ethnic membership criteria that could suggest a racist orientation etc.

 

[formerlyme]

Then factor in the "Goonies" might not have distinctive clothing, tattoos, "sign", "tags", official name etc. etc.

Though this does not "un gang" them, it can make them harder to track. This could be especially so if they are committing assaults in several different jurisdictions, including a larger city where individual assaults can get lost in the over all crime background.

Several years ago, SOCAL had to deal with a series of "established surfer groups" known to viciously attack rivals and others. Similar to some street gangs, two of the uhmm...."groups" were multi generational with one featuring a surfing MMA practicing father with two large sons in competitive MMA.

Seeking to enhance assault charges, the prosecutors tried to the surfer groups designated as youth gangs. But.... they also ran into some of the same problems:

No official group names, no clear way to establish membership via clothing or tattoos, most members had no criminal convictions, surfer groups were largely white, but had Hispanic and Asian members- so harder to establish an ethnic membership criteria that could suggest a racist orientation etc.

Yes, I am thinking maybe classify it as multiple gangs, each group of 3, that did attacks would be a gang since 3 used to be the magic number, I am sure you can find enough similarity in their fashion, word choice, probably even an alpha that could be the role of leader, rules 'don't tell'. I know I am grasping for straws I just want as many charges as possible that will stick I guess that is the trick the prosecutor is facing, charges that will STICK.

 

[Cryptic]

Yes, I am thinking maybe classify it as multiple gangs, each group of 3, that did attacks would be a gang since 3 used to be the magic number, I am sure you can find enough similarity in their fashion, word choice, probably even an alpha that could be the role of leader, rules 'don't tell'. I know I am grasping for straws I just want as many charges as possible that will stick I guess that is the trick the prosecutor is facing, charges that will STICK.

I dont think you are grasping at straws. Rather, my bet is that prosecutors could be using the same general technique to support a gang classification. Maybe something like:

- Have various members committed crimes as a group 3X or more? Then, their purpose is criminal activity.
- Are you in two way contact with 3 or more group members 3X or more a day via social media: Then you are an affiliate of the group member of the group.
- Do you do all of the above, and use group nicknames, common group slang, defer to one individual as the "Alpha Male" 3X or more?

Then you are a member of the gang.

 

[formerlyme]

laws are getting added. I still feel hold the homeowner responsible for parties as well, it is my understanding the party Preston was at was wild and the parents of the party host/hostess were there.

Gilbert Council approves ordinance changes targeting teen violence

One ordinance bans the sale or possession of brass knuckles to minors, while the other targets unruly gatherings.

www.abc15.com

 

[Cryptic]

I still feel hold the homeowner responsible for parties as well,

I would say, civilly responsible to a degree, but I dont think laws holding such party sponsors them crimially responsible are forthcoming.

At the end of the day, our legal system is Roman Law: In the broad sense, illegal actions are clearly defined and written down. Actions not declared to be illegal are legal- period. Did one perform the illegal action- yes, or no?

Given our Roman law system, its hard to make people who are one, two, or three steps removed from a criminal action part of the criminal action.

As a side note, Mexico and many other countries have Napoleonic law. In this law system, there is a responsibility to contribute towards an orderly society. In these countries, one can be held criminally responsible for crimes that they indirectly facilitated- but did not perform.

As an illustration.....

A USN shore patrol office once explained to me that he needed to bring food and clothing to a Marine doing 2 years in a Mexican prison. The Marine was two steps lower in a chain of interaction that led to the death of a man who was killed resisting arrest by Mexican police. He never would have been convicted of "indirect responsibility for a justified death" in the US. But.... such convictions occur under Napoleonic law.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

completely possible, I just think so many were involved it is hard to say who made the fatal blow and that would hold up a jury as well. I will find peace with it, I pray for Preston's family.

Yes, but didn’t at least one of those involved (TR) apparently post something online that he was involved and surmised that ‘I was just too strong’? Or words to that effect? Please tell us the prosecutor’s office and investigators have that information archived at the ready.

This whole episode is disgusting. And the poor child killed at their hands and whatever they call it, was it some sort of sick warped ‘pleasure’? And the mentality of the parents…… and the school supposedly receiving money for other incidents IIRC? I better stop here. Suffice to say, let’s hope criminally and civilly several are brought to their knees or better. MOO

 

[formerlyme]

I would say, civilly responsible to a degree, but I dont think laws holding such party sponsors them crimially responsible are forthcoming.

At the end of the day, our legal system is Roman Law: In the broad sense, illegal actions are clearly defined and written down. Actions not declared to be illegal are legal- period. Did one perform the illegal action- yes, or no?

Given our Roman law system, its hard to make people who are one, two, or three steps removed from a criminal action part of the criminal action.

As a side note, Mexico and many other countries have Napoleonic law. In this law system, there is a responsibility to contribute towards an orderly society. In these countries, one can be held criminally responsible for crimes that they indirectly facilitated- but did not perform.

As an illustration.....

A USN shore patrol office once explained to me that he needed to bring food and clothing to a Marine doing 2 years in a Mexican prison. The Marine was two steps lower in a chain of interaction that led to the death of a man who was killed resisting arrest by Mexican police. He never would have been convicted of "indirect responsibility for a justified death" in the US. But.... such convictions occur under Napoleonic law.

I did see a commercial here in the phoenix area (not far from Gilbert) about how it is illegal to supply alcohol for underage parties. I thought the timing was a bit convenient with them talking charges possible for the parents. I think in addition to civil charges. The adults in question would have had a responsibility to contact authorities when the party got over crowded and wild. And if they were aware that drinking/drugging were going on....