AZ AZ - Grand Canyon, 'Little Miss X' UP9859, Wht/Hisp Fem, 11-17, nail file case "P" & "R", Oct'58

[UVB76]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

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There is pictures of the skull in the images section.

In the description of the file, it says there was an engraved P with an R carved in. I'm imagining Donnis carving it in for her last name, Redman. and the P, for her nickname, Pinkie. So sad.

 

[alllads]

In the description of the file, it says there was an engraved P with an R carved in. I'm imagining Donnis carving it in for her last name, Redman. and the P, for her nickname, Pinkie. So sad.

According to http://azdailysun.com/blogs/crimina...cle_1abf60ae-3133-11e3-b651-0019bb2963f4.html , Miss X is unlikely to be Pinky. Pinky was fair-skinned and blonde, Miss X is thought to be darker skinned, with dark brown hair that had been sun bleached to light brown - still darker than Pinky's.

 

[talelights]

Need assistant in researching the cemeteries in Coconino County, as Little Miss X might not be in the Flagstaff cemetery at all, what about the William's area, as the deputy sheriff of the time was from that area, and he was charged with hand carrying the found remains to Connie Smith's dentist in South Dakota and then to Denver for forensic testing. Since there was no firm id of the remains could they be resting someplace besides Flagstaff's cemetery?

 

[SilentSleuth]

I feel like more MPs from throughout the country should be looked at. I think this is a body dump.

Has Brenda Howell been looked at?

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

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[lindamichelle1]

I read that Mary Begay was excluded

 

[STANDREID]

As per Wiki, this case is still unsolved and the victim unidentified. It also mentions that some clothing was found near the body that included some female underwear that was too large for the victim so apparently either the killer was a woman or a man with a fetish.

 

[ellemo]

As per Wiki, this case is still unsolved and the victim unidentified. It also mentions that some clothing was found near the body that included some female underwear that was too large for the victim so apparently either the killer was a woman or a man with a fetish.

Or the child's mother was also killed and was dumped somewhere else (or nearby but never found)

 

[Any123]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

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No rule outs listed

 

[ElMeow]

Have they gotten anywhere in the search for her remains?

I think she could be either Brenda Jo or Elsie Mae Roane http://www.nampn.org/cases/roane_elsie.html

But we can't confirm or exclude anyone until lMX's remains are found.

I have a theory as to why the belongings of other people were there. I believe she was originally dumped at a yet-to-be-discovered site, possibly with Donnis Redman, and Mary Begay. I think that the area had flooded in the spring or maybe summer of 58, and her body as well as the belongings of Redman were transported in the flood to the location that she was found. The fact that the area is known for being a body dump supports this theory.

 

[madamx]

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1193ufaz.html

Unidentified Female
Date of Discovery: October 31, 1958
Location of Discovery: Grand Canyon National Park, Coconino County, Arizona
Estimated Date of Death: 18 months prior
State of Remains: Skeletal
Cause of Death: Unknown


Physical Description
** Listed information is approximate

Estimated Age: 11-14 years old
Race: White/Hispanic
Gender: Female
Height: 5'0"
Weight: 105 lbs.
Hair Color: Naturally red or auburn but dyed light brown. Wavy, but may not have been natural.
Eye Color: Unknown

Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown

Dentals: Available.
Fingerprints: Not available.
DNA: Not available.

Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: White wool cardigan short sleeve sweater,
brown plaid with green and red pattern World Gamons GRAFF California Wear capri (pedal pusher) pants,
white rayon underpants (size small),
white Maidenform Alloette cotton bra (size 34C).

Jewelry: Gold neck chain with tiny curb-style links, 18-inch, 10k.

Additional Personal Items: Small jar of Ponds cold cream,
nylon white comb,
small white powder puff with traces of sun-tan colored powder,
small blue plastic nail file case with the indentation of the capital letter "P" written in script, followed by the indentation of a hand printed capital letter "R."

 

[madamx]

Case History
The victim's skeletal remains were found about 10 miles southeast of the Grand Canyon.


Investigating Agency(s)
If you have any information about this case please contact;

Agency Name: Coconino County Sheriff’s Department
Agency Contact Person: N/A
Agency Phone Number: 928-226-5012


Agency Name: Coconino County Medical Examiner's Office
Agency Contact Person: Amy Kelly-McLaughlin
Agency Phone Number: 928-679-8775



Agency Case Number: LE: 509-01397; ME: 12-064; NCMEC: 1137582
NCIC Case Number: Not entered
NamUs Case Number: UP #9859
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

 

[madamx]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Hair color
Brown

Head hair
long, light brown with a slight wave. The wave appears artificial according to reports.

Clothing with body
white wool cardigan short sleeve sweater, brown plaid with green and red pattern capri (pedal pusher) pants with the label "World Gamons GRAFF California Wear, white rayon underpants, small size elastic top and bottom, Maidenform "Alloette" white cotton brassiere, size 34C.
Footwear

Jewelry
18 inch, 10 carat solid gold neck chain with tiny curb-style links.
Eyewear

Other items found
with body
Small jar of Ponds cold cream, nylon white comb, small white powder puff with traces of sun-tan colored powder, small blue plastic nail file case with the indentationof the capital letter "P" written in script, followed by the indentation of a hand printed capital letter "R"

Hair and Sweater

 

[madamx]

what struck me about this doe is that her Nickname was Pinky and her last name is Redman.. which made me think of the initials scribed in the makeup.. and also that the car was found abandoned in Arizona

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2409dfca.html



Donnis Marie Redman
Missing since March 1, 1958 from San Pedro, Los Angeles County, California
Classification: Lost, Injured, Missing

Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: June 10, 1943
Age at Time of Disappearance: 15 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2"; 105 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White Female. Blonde hair; blue eyes.
Clothing: She was last seen wearing brown capri pants and a yellow sweater.
Nickname/Alias: Pinky
Dentals: Not available.
DNA: Available.


Circumstances of Disappearance
Donnis Redman was last seen with her boyfriend, Michael on March 1, 1958, in Las Vegas, Nevada. The car of the boyfriend was found in Williams, Arizona a few days later. Boyfriend Michael James Griffin, age 18, is also

 

[madamx]

Maybe they thought the remains to be very young and she was older.. sometimes mistakes are made the first drawing looks like her.. the only thing that does not match is the hair..



Coconino County, Arizona
25 to 27 year old native american female
Case Information
Status
Missing
First name
Ida
Middle name
Mae
Last name
Lee


Date last seen
November 01, 1956

Date entered
07/07/2016
Age last seen
25 to 27 years old
Age now
86 years old
Race
Native American
Ethnicity

Sex
Female
Height (inches)
61.0 to 65.0
Weight (pounds)
110.0 to 120.0
City
Grand Canyon National Park
State
Arizona

County
Coconino
Ida was last known to be working at a hotel in November of 1956 and has not been since since.

 

[Pavel]

Maybe they thought the remains to be very young and she was older.. sometimes mistakes are made the first drawing looks like her.. the only thing that does not match is the hair..

Even though there certainly are a lot of adults who could be interpreted as children due to their size, I'd say confusion like this is almost impossible. The bone structure of a mature woman is very different from one of a 11-14 -year-old and the developmental stage of the teeth and jaw must have given some information as well. It would be a one in a thousand - kind of a mistake to mess the age estimation this bad.

Details about her belongings make me wonder, though... A girl between eleven and fourteen (especially concidering the era), wearing a C-cup bra, dying hair and being missing for decades without being identified?! If I'd have to guess, her age would be around 16 to get all the details match.
In comparison, my mother, who's born around the same time period, would have probably been 16-17 at similar height, weight, bust size and dental development.
Either this girl was a really early bloomer on many aspects OR she was still at her teens but signifiantly older than the estimation. If she really was as young as the estimate suggests, maybe she'd been missing for a least a couple of years before her death? That way she might have been reported missing but changed so much she resembles the original information only very vaguely.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Even though there certainly are a lot of adults who could be interpreted as children due to their size, I'd say confusion like this is almost impossible. The bone structure of a mature woman is very different from one of a 11-14 -year-old and the developmental stage of the teeth and jaw must have given some information as well. It would be a one in a thousand - kind of a mistake to mess the age estimation this bad.

Details about her belongings make me wonder, though... A girl between eleven and fourteen (especially concidering the era), wearing a C-cup bra, dying hair and being missing for decades without being identified?! If I'd have to guess, her age would be around 16 to get all the details match.
In comparison, my mother, who's born around the same time period, would have probably been 16-17 at similar height, weight, bust size and dental development.
Either this girl was a really early bloomer on many aspects OR she was still at her teens but signifiantly older than the estimation. If she really was as young as the estimate suggests, maybe she'd been missing for a least a couple of years before her death? That way she might have been reported missing but changed so much she resembles the original information only very vaguely.

As for bust, I was a D by 14 so it's not super out there

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[wordsick]

Clothing: She was last seen wearing brown capri pants and a yellow sweater.

This seems to be a match/near-match as well.

 

[carbuff]

Donnis side by side with the reconstruction. Click to enlarge.

There's a lot that matches. Facially close, age, circumstances, demographics, even clothing. The only reservations I see are that she would have had to have dyed her hair after she disappeared (plausible if they were planning to elope or something), and the timeline is tight based on estimated postmortem interval.

 

[carbuff]

Ida Mae Lee also appears to have good circumstances: she was working at a hotel at the Grand Canyon per Charley Project when she disappeared, and the timeline is better--she disappeared November 1956, two years before the remains were found.

Demographics fit except for age.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Ida Mae Lee – The Charley Project

The Charley Project blog also has some interesting background information that might or might not be relevant.Seeing Ida Mae Lee living…maybe

 

[sonz82]

Avis Marie hardman? Went missing sometime in the mid to late 50s age 16