AZ AZ - Tempe, HispFem, UP1987, 15-19, hitchhiking, overdose, Apr'02

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I have so many questions. More and more every day.
Was the drug dealer ever located? Asked about the event? It's been only this one guy account everywhere but what about the other one? If not, why it's even believed that there was ANY drug dealer with them in that car on that day?

They got to the guy through his gf's fingerprints found on a CD located near the victim's body. But how that CD even ended up there?
Most people store their CD's close to the radio and glove box, in front of a car.
He claims she was in the back seat with a drug dealer.
So... his gf's CD's were just scattered on the floor and backseat of his car? And despite of front seat being empty he decided to have them both on the backseat, where his belongings were?
Nothing crazy about it, it's totally possible, but those unusual details are piling up like crazy.

So she's convulsing, OD's. Drug dealer still in his car, in the backseat, with her. Then two guys are dragging tiny girl's body out of the car, or one with the other one still sitting in and not one hears CD box hitting the ground.
Then this odd carless drug dealer sees no issue with casually getting out of the car WHERE they dumped her body. He's not interested in getting a lift far from there asap, he heads away on foot! And apparently gladly listens to this guy's instructions as he leaves reassured that this drug dealer is totally going to call for an ambulance.

It doesn't even sound like this drug dealer was ever there with them. Only thing he's doing in the story is taking full responsibility for having drugs, selling drugs, causing her death and leaving her with no help. Cause of course, our guy told him to call an ambulance.

In another version of the story he picks up random hitchhiker, drives her around, SHE is the one who gets drug dealer in, and guy seems to have no issue with having both of those people, and cocaine in backseat of his gf's car and as she OD's he feels confident enough in that situation to instruct this stranger guy to do things.
This doesn't make sense either.
 
Kind of a thought out of left field but it is known that one of the first things human traffickers do, is try to get their victims hooked on drugs. This whole situation just seems a bit more orchestrated than what the witnesses are trying to lead us to believe. This guy just happened upon this young lady and she willingly got in his car, expressed a need for drugs at that very moment and the driver just happened to know a drug dealer who was available right then? Then her pants being unbuttoned by one of these guys and her halter top just happened to shift as well…This all sounds like a bunch of bull to me. It’s sad that we cannot hear her side of the story because I’m willing to bet that it wouldn’t match theirs. I am wondering if someone associated with these two men took her in and promised her work, before handing her off to one or both of them. It saddens me to think that a family (possibly in Mexico, Central or South America) is probably holding out hope that in these last 20 years their daughter has made something of herself and will someday come home and tell them all about her successful new life.
 
What's your source for all this? If you posted it earlier, I missed it. It would be helpful to include it with each post so we can follow your logic...
 
So, could the perp possibly be in Mexico now? Per the bit about him fleeing to Mexico in fear of being arrested.
Thank you so much @beubeubeu for the in-depth analysis of all this! Super helpful.
 
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carbuff said:
What's your source for all this? If you posted it earlier, I missed it. It would be helpful to include it with each post so we can follow your logic...
Click to expand...
If that question was for me, then my source was this very thread, collected, rearranged and listed chronologically in easier to read and see through way, provided years ago by fmw63.
I was under impression that this is what we're all talking about since there was never any other source of info on this case out there. Apparently it wasn't clear enough.

I'm unable to repost all that with quotes cause site is breaking on me way too often and with all my posts removed (cause lacking those quotes) would require few dozens of quotes in each post.

But it's all there. If anyone is still curious about what exactly happened, then I suggest to copy all fmw63's post into a notepad and reading it like that.
Then narrowing it down in chronological order and noticing where that guy's story changes and where is elephant in the room kind of hint.
IMO IMO IMO etc.

She wasn't just in his car - IMO. Where she also was - is in fmw63 posts.
Literally all in there.

​

 
beubeubeu said:
If that question was for me, then my source was this very thread, collected, rearranged and listed chronologically in easier to read and see through way, provided years ago by fmw63.
I was under impression that this is what we're all talking about since there was never any other source of info on this case out there. Apparently it wasn't clear enough.

I'm unable to repost all that with quotes cause site is breaking on me way too often and with all my posts removed (cause lacking those quotes) would require few dozens of quotes in each post.

But it's all there. If anyone is still curious about what exactly happened, then I suggest to copy all fmw63's post into a notepad and reading it like that.
Then narrowing it down in chronological order and noticing where that guy's story changes and where is elephant in the room kind of hint.
IMO IMO IMO etc.

She wasn't just in his car - IMO. Where she also was - is in fmw63 posts.
Literally all in there.

​

Click to expand...

Sorry, when the posts were deleted, my comment became irrelevant. I should have quoted better. It was about something specific but now I don't remember what it was. Something related to the concerts.
 
carbuff said:
Sorry, when the posts were deleted, my comment became irrelevant. I should have quoted better. It was about something specific but now I don't remember what it was. Something related to the concerts.
Click to expand...
Info from this thread and fmw83's posts says that guy claimed that she wanted to buy tickets for some "hispanic band coming to town".
And that with whatever reason he drove her past nearest groccery store from same chain, next to few others, from Phoenix to Tempe, to another groccery store, when they supposedly tried to purchase the tickets just to learn that this store isn't selling them.
Then guy allegedly started driving her all the way back, next to where he picked her up to check for those tickets in groccery store near his gf's appartement.

My speculation, my opinion, my long gone google searches found no "hispanic band" playing there till the end of the month.
Could be something small and obscure, untraceable online and lost... but chain stores aren't usually selling tickets for tiny local concerts.
But next evening, there was a concert of Mexican singer, guy well over 50+. IMO not someone who could get interest of teenage girl in 2002 - unless she would be Mexican AND had some specific sentiment towards this specific singer.
We don't know if she was Mexican, her dna doesn't hint at that, but, from posts in this thread we know that WHO was for sure illegal immigrant, possibly Mexican, surely (from this thread) planning to run and hide in Mexico?
That guy. The only source of info about the girl. The one who was changing his story from the point one, yet still ended up surrounded by unexplained details.

So, my speculation, my opinion, my conclusions after reading through this thread and learning about:
- guy's bizarre idea to call his cousin to the 7eleven parking lot to "give him a ride" in car he was already driving,
- guy's wish for his cousin to take the car,
- guy's wish for his gf to not go to pick up kids from family and to not go back home but to pick him up firt, then go to pick up kids,
- guy's concern that their house could be "robbed" and not allowing gf to get in till next day evening, insisting on spending night in motel for "safety reasons",
- guy's quick plan to go to Mexico asap
was to suspect that it wasn't the girls idea to "buy tickets" for middle aged Mexican singer concert.

Certainly possible that with some reasons she could be interested in going there, maybe to meet someone, maybe cause she liked this music a lot.
But between teenage girl who was likely not a Mexican and 25+ guy likely hanging out with a lot of guys from Mexico, including many older than him I'd bet on him and his crowd being the source of info about that concert, not the girl. IMO.



Specific locations are mentioned in this thread. They're miles and miles apart.
 
Thanks for repeating all that. I think there's no doubt that guy was up to no good...but he's missing now, right? Or am I remembering a different case?
 
carbuff said:
I think there's no doubt that guy was up to no good...
Click to expand...
Well, the thing is that there may be some doubts even about that.

I'm sorry, I wish I could make it properly - with quotes, links, screens and maps, but since I still have major issues with my laptop and website is occasionally breaking on me I can only type (I don't really have time for that but thoughts about this case won't leave me).

So let's say that I'm theorising and speculating my own opinions and it's my opinion that those speculations are based on info that could be found in this thread in fmw83's posts.

Following that info speculation we may learn I thought that possibly:

1. "That guy" wasn't conntacted directly by the investigators. It wasn't possible at the time cause there was no known connection between him and Tempe Girl. So he had some time to come up with the story or/and talk about this with some other people possibly involved.
2. There was a woman who owned two sets of CD's, both stored in similar looking containers. One of those she had in the car she was using on daily basis. Second was supposed to be in second car that she owned - but that second car was used by her boyfriend ("that guy").
3. One of those containers was found at the scene. Woman's fingerprints found on one of cd's. Woman identified days after the Tempe Girl's body was found, contacted by LE and confused on how her cd's ended up there.
4. Then we might believe that she confronted "that guy" and asked if he knows anything about that cause Woman offered the investigator an explanation that she heard from "that guy" (her bf). He indeed knew "something" but reassured her that she has no need to worry and that he hasn't done anything wrong.
5. "That guy" called investigator as well and offered his version of the story (and that was different from what he told his gf) but there was nothing in that story that was incriminating him.
6. One may think that his story is pretty shady.
- he picked up this random girl with no possesions just walking through the neighbourhood, very close to his bf's house,
- according to him girl was acting strange, like she was on drugs, spoke only Spanish and wanted to buy ticketS for some Spanish band's concert,
- so he took her on 30ish mins drive to the groccery store, heading from North Phoenix towards West Tempe just to learn that they're not selling tickets,
- so he turned back, heading to the other groccery store from same chain, that was located in walking distance from where he claimed he picked the girl up from the street,
- then Girl changed her mind, didn't wanted tickets anymore, she wanted to buy some coke and ask him f he knows where to get it,
- so he turned back again and headed towards Tempe again (sic!) to meet some mysterious drug dealer at the 7eleven parking lot, picked him up, kept driving while Girl bought drugs and proceeded to smoke it, instantly started having seizures so they dumped her at the nearby parking lot (empty at this time of night/evening),
- according to him she was totally alive and still moving while they dumped her there,
- so he headed back towards 7eleven parking lot and told drug dealer to call 911 on the girl - and some call was indeed made, but first part not understandable then caller claimed that he's fine and ended the call,
- in the meantime "the guy" called his cousin to give him a ride (he was in the car he was driving and this supposed cousin got a lift from someone else to get there),
- sometime later cousin showed up, took the wheel, drove him to the place where he could exhange checks for money, left him ("the guy" there and took the car with him)
- then (from here) ACCORDING TO THE WOMAN'S "the guy" called his girlfriend to pick him up, then they visited her family members to pick up her kids (as they were staying with them while she was at work) and arrived back home to see doors opened,
- the Woman never got in there on that night, he got inside, claimed that nothing is missing or disturbed but fearing that might be a break-in, they left and spend night at motel, to came back afternoon next day.

JMHO, my opinion, my speculation and so on - BUT nonetheless.
I think we all know that:
- she had her pants slided down, exposing her panties,
- he claimed that he unbuttoned her pants to "help her breathe" while she got seizures,
- there was semen-looking stains on her butt and tighs but he was confident that's not his.

In different circumstances I'd lean towards possibility that he's not the one responsible as clinical example of rabbitholing BUT (my speculations) relying on what could be found in this thread and fmw83's posts one can point out that:
- "the guy" was in US illegally, or so he claimed to his girlfriend, informing her that he's heading straight to Mexico for some time,
- "the guy" was one of the possesive, yet mysterious towards his girlfriend, she wasn't allowed to know much about his friends, companions, locations, daily activities and so on,
- giving random girl an (at least) 1,5 hour long ride, just to call cousin to take the wheel and give him a ride, and doing that only to call YET ANOTHER person, his gf to pick him up and give him yet another ride is pretty freaking unusual scenario to spend the evening,
- to some it might sound awfully suspicious that just then somebody "went inside" their house, stole nothing, disturbed nothing, but left doors wide open.

My conspiracy, my theory, my opinion:
It doesn't sound like he was the only one involved in this, or even the one responsible - unless he was lying about the semen and it was indeed his (in such case pretty likely that it's all on him).
IMO it sounds like it's pretty possible that he was, to a degree covering for someone who was using that car he was driving. He wasn't surprised by LE and confronted by their findings, he ended up warned ahead of cd's being found at the scene and LE making this connection.
Could be that he had nothing to lose telling this story in which he theoretically haven't done anything illegal before getting lost in Mexico. Cause wasn't he pretty much "burned" at the time? LE was able to connect him to the cd's owner, the car, and the dead girl's body, so also to the fact that he was in US illegally - no reason for him to expose anybody elses possible involvement (no matter if they were also illegal or legal and wanting to stay).

Not saying that I believe that's what happened but with infor... speculation this limited it's also possible that his bizarre story was coverup for someone else with his limited involvement. Why those doors were left open? Someone still in there maybe, cleaning up? Taking something of hers?
If his girlfriend wasn't instantly alarmed by his call for a drive despite of him having a car, nor it being somewhere with someone for couple days then possibly he acted weird and sketchy all the time?

MO, my speculations, my conspiracy theories only.
 
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