Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Inspector_North]

Of all the 1000's of text messages collected, I would surmise the crown would only include in evidence, messages they and LE felt were of some relevance to the case. Some messages might show the moral character, some might show the accused's activities which are case related. Being a largely circumstantial case, all the minutia, summed together, add up to the crown's case.

It is difficult to determine with any certainty what the "tar" messages is in reference to. The picture of the blue tarp does not show any tar.

In the crown's final statements, they will have more latitude to speculate than during the evidence stage. Perhaps they will shed some light on what they believe the "tar" might be.
Or, like the Riverside hoses, we might never know.

I agree, and both "tar" texts had additional information that may be of relevance, and not the "tar" part. MOO


Jul 4 11:03 am Millard texts Smich: "Left some dough on the coffee table in basement. Black tar negro!"

Jul 4 3:40 pm Millard texts Smich: "k. pull your passport papers out, we can fill em out."


Jul 4 3:48 pm Smich texts Millard: "I will after. I'm already getting tar ready." - reference to getting his passport application I believe.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

A few of things about the spliff reference.

1) DM despised tobacco smoking. It was not allowed in the house. IIRC, his dad and his dad's fiancee who I believe passed away, were both heavy smokers. This if I remember correctly was from WM's fiancee's brother from the US who did an interview with the media, and mentioned that all WM and his sister did was drink and smoke.
2) DM made a point to talk about vaporizing, and that it was better since it was inhaled at a lower temperature.
3) Why would MS ask about the spliff many hours after the text from DM? It's not like they ever ask about this sort of thing in past tense. They often mention they are going to get high, are currently getting high, or waking up from a high. Yet both texted about this particular "spliff".

MOO

Urban Dictionary: Spliff: "A spliff is an old school term originally referring to any joint where you might have to "split the difference" between tobacco and cannabis."

Thank you very much. I so appreciate all the info and discussion in this group. Lovely, thoughtful, caring, intelligent group.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Gloria77]

When do the closings begin?

 

[Grey-St]

When do the closings begin?

Tuesday, December 5th. Next week.

 

[Oreck]

They are sequestered in a hotel. They each have their own rooms and are alone except when they are all together deliberating. I don’t think they can see anyone at all, or watch tv. There are cops that sit outside of the juror’s rooms.

What about cell phone and laptop? Do you know?

 

[JuneBug67]

This cold call you’re referring to was made June 13, than there’s nothing again until Jul 2, and from that point it seems Dm is getting increasingly impatient with isho. I notice we see texts from Isho to Dm, but not too many replies from DM to Isho...maybe calls him on the phone instead.
One of the texts that Isho sent DM that sticks out to me is “Ur actin like thers a prob when there’s not. So just stop.”

I'm not sure how this relates to my point? I'm not saying that poor DM had a gun thrust into his hands. There was clearly an interest once it was broached, and yes, clearly communication beyond the texts. The whole thrust of my original post was to wonder how people are pinning an alleged murder weapon on MS when even DM didn't go looking for it in June 2013.

He's super anxious for something for sure, but for what is not clear. He was still anxious to acquire something by late on the 4th, so it's truly not obvious if or how any of it fits into Laura's death. The whole body of gun facts in these cases is a bit confounding. We know there were at least three because of the charges on MWJ et al. We've seen pictures of two and aren't likely to see any more. We know DM claimed to MS that guns, plural, were lost in a break in at Maplegate, yet we have accounted for at least two via WM and TB.

 

[mimimic]

Would the Jury have received any additional texts that are not in billandrews timeline? I just feel there are so many blank unfinished conversations that could be put together more complete, if they had the whole conversation.

If the crown found extremely disturbing details would the crown leave them out? My mind goes there because they all seem to like gore, MS acting video and the music video AM told LB to watch. I couldn't watch MS video. Not trying to muddy the waters and LB- it's more likely AM who sees the gore but in the video the girls are violent because someone deleted her/them off facebook, so they plan a kill revenge.

I only recently watched it as i didn't think it would be pertinent.

 

[winter2017]

IT is over for MS he is not charged in death of DM s father. When the jury reaches verdict MS will either spend the rest of his life in prison or eventually will get out.
DM I am certain will be convicted of M1 and he is never getting out of prison.
I know from one group on fb we are all going to be celebrating when the verdict of M1 is given to DM in this case.
Most of us wish there was the death penalty because DM does not deserve a nice cushy cell and three meals a day.
Plus the public has to be tortured by having him in the public eye again in 2018 for another trial. Hopefully, that one is very fast and he gets another M1 and will be considered a dangerous offender.
It has been gruesome to have to be made aware of his existence. Getting to see him in action at this trial was the vilest, sick experience imaginable. I found out just how vile he was by his antics in this trial.
<modsnip>

 

[Grey-St]

What about cell phone and laptop? Do you know?

I've heard of TV's being removed from rooms, so maybe the same applies for cell phones and lap tops? Simply not allowed to bring these items? If one needed to make a call to family and/or friends, they could use the phone in the room. I think anything that could be connected to MSM would be disallowed, though.
JMO, though, I'd have to do some research. I don't know how strict these conditions are in our Canadian system.

 

[bambam22]

I looked up black tar in the urban dictionary....I think he was referring to heroin....I believe they did this in the past....here is what the urban dictionary says
Top definition


black tar

unknown​

a type of heroin produced in Mexico. it is the main type of heroin used in the Western United States. it may be sticky, like roofing tar, or hard. colors range from dark brown to black. the reason for its tar-like consistency and appearance is due to the crude manner in which it was processed. it is often sold in this state at purities ranging from 20-80%.
black tar heroin is usually injected or smoked, but can also be made into powder or dissolved in water and snorted. it is typically thought that while injecting black tar will destroy your veins faster than injecting china white, but the fact remains that its gummy consistency requires the needle to be rinsed thoroughly between uses, which may or may not put users at a lower risk of getting the package.
black tar can be made into mexican brown powder heroin by being cut with lactose, though other cutting agents have been used, of course.

 

[Inspector_North]

IT is over for MS he is not charged in death of DM s father. When the jury reaches verdict MS will either spend the rest of his life in prison or eventually will get out.
DM I am certain will be convicted of M1 and he is never getting out of prison.
I know from one group on fb we are all going to be celebrating when the verdict of M1 is given to DM in this case.
Most of us wish there was the death penalty because DM does not deserve a nice cushy cell and three meals a day.
Plus the public has to be tortured by having him in the public eye again in 2018 for another trial. Hopefully, that one is very fast and he gets another M1 and will be considered a dangerous offender.
It has been gruesome to have to be made aware of his existence. Getting to see him in action at this trial was the vilest, sick experience imaginable. I found out just how vile he was by his antics in this trial.
<modsnip>

I agree with your DM will be found guilty of M1. I am currently at this point over 50% leaning towards the jury finding MS guilty of M1. For me, there was plenty of evidence on MS that proves he was involved in the pre planning, at the location of the murder, and played a role in the destruction of the victim. Of course my assessment could change after I hear the closings.

One other thing, MS never showed or indicated in any text, the surprise, anxiety, or paranoia that I would expect to see from someone who was not involved from the beginning (starting around Feb of 2012). All the way up to July 23rd when he was photographed with the rake, and wrote those RAP lyrics. Which we know by that time he knew what went down. MOO

 

[andreww]

Searching through Bill's timeline, I only find two references to "tar"

Jul 4 11:03 am Millard texts Smich: "Left some dough on the coffee table in basement. Black tar negro!"


Jul 4 3:48 pm Smich texts Millard: "I will after. I'm already getting tar ready."

One thing I noticed when looking at the "tar" reference. Both mentioned the spliff first. Is that important? Don't know.

Jul 4 10:00 am Millard texts Smich: "I rolled my first spliff." [Possibly refers to rolling up the blue tarp]
Jul 4 3:21 pm Smich texts Millard: "How's the spliff?"

I think the spliff reference and the tar references are two separate things. Millard rolls the spliff at the farm (JB in blue tarp). I think saying that reminds him that he wants to get high when he's done and he instructs MS to acquire some black tar (either hash oil or heroine) for later. Smich texts later in the day that he has succeeded in getting the drugs and is preparing them for use.

At first I thought the two were related but the fact that MS was at Maple Gate and Millard was at the farm with the spliff already rolled seems to negate that theory.

 

[bambam22]

I agree with your DM will be found guilty of M1. I am currently at this point over 50% leaning towards guilty of M1 for MS. For me, there was plenty of evidence on MS that proves he was involved in the pre planning, at the location of the murder, and played a role in the destruction of the victim. Of course my assessment could change after I hear the closings.

One other thing, MS never showed or indicated in any text the surprise, anxiety, or paranoia that I would expect to see from someone who was not involved from the beginning (starting around Feb of 2012). All the way up to July 23rd when he was photographed with the rake, and wrote those RAP lyrics. Which we know by that time he knew what went down. MOO

I think DMgets M1 for sure. Although there is no body and no forensic evidence, there isa huge amount of circumstantial evidence that jury should be able to puttogether. I think the letters were the final nails in the coffin&#8230;.why is someonedesperately be trying to put together a story and alibi &#8230;.also, I hope the CApoints out the jury that DM letter says &#8220;The night Laura disappeared&#8221;&#8230;.how doeshe even know she disappeared or even more the night she disappeared? Doesn&#8217;t hebelieve she is still alive?
I think MSwill not be convicted of M1. I think the jury will be given another option suchas accessory after the fact and /or disposing of a dead body. I think the jurywill have a much easier time finding him guilty of something lesser

 

[Just4TB]

There have been some negative references to Thomas Dungey over the course of this trial, implying he is not doing a good job as defense lawyer for MS. This implication is largely based on the times when Dungey did not say much. However, the absense of TD speaking, is part of his defense strategy. As such, I disagree that TD is not doing his job.

A defense lawyer is often a lightning rod, it comes with the territory. The accused are who should be reviled, not the defense. The key points to remember, are the right to a legal defense, and the right to a fair trial, both of which are cornerstone of our justice system, within our civil society. And MS is entitled to those rights, guilty or not.

Anyone accused of a criminal charge has the right to know the case against them and put forward a defence. In addition to being a principle of fundamental justice, this right is also protected by the right to a fair trial under section 11(d) of the Charter.

"Full answer and defence" encompasses a number of things, including the right to counsel (also see section 10), the right to examine witnesses, and most importantly, the right to full disclosure by the Crown (see R. v. Stinchcombe, 1991).

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secti...reedoms#Right_to_make_full_answer_and_defence

A defense lawyer's principle purpose is not to "get his client off the charges". Rather, the defense lawyer's purpose is to ensure that his client gets a fair trial, with knowledgeable representation acting in the interest of the client. So long as Dungey mounts a vigorous defense, and ensures that his client received a fair trial, ensuring proper procedures followed, then he has done his job. If the prosecution and jury follow procedure, and the jury determines his client is guilty as charged, this ought not reflect badly on TD.

 

[winter2017]

Are both DM and MS serving 25 years for first murder? Do they have to serve the full 25 years? If MS is convicted of a lesser charge in this trial would it be added to the 25 years. If he is not convicted of M1 it is definite he will in future be released. DM is a lifer, like Barnardo because I am 99.9% sure he is going down in this case. Thank god to know he will never be out there free.

I think DMgets M1 for sure. Although there is no body and no forensic evidence, there isa huge amount of circumstantial evidence that jury should be able to puttogether. I think the letters were the final nails in the coffin&#8230;.why is someonedesperately be trying to put together a story and alibi &#8230;.also, I hope the CApoints out the jury that DM letter says &#8220;The night Laura disappeared&#8221;&#8230;.how doeshe even know she disappeared or even more the night she disappeared? Doesn&#8217;t hebelieve she is still alive?
I think MSwill not be convicted of M1. I think the jury will be given another option suchas accessory after the fact and /or disposing of a dead body. I think the jurywill have a much easier time finding him guilty of something lesser

 

[andreww]

I think DMgets M1 for sure. Although there is no body and no forensic evidence, there isa huge amount of circumstantial evidence that jury should be able to puttogether. I think the letters were the final nails in the coffin&#8230;.why is someonedesperately be trying to put together a story and alibi &#8230;.also, I hope the CApoints out the jury that DM letter says &#8220;The night Laura disappeared&#8221;&#8230;.how doeshe even know she disappeared or even more the night she disappeared? Doesn&#8217;t hebelieve she is still alive?
I think MSwill not be convicted of M1. I think the jury will be given another option suchas accessory after the fact and /or disposing of a dead body. I think the jurywill have a much easier time finding him guilty of something lesser

I'm not really sure if that's an option but we'll have to wait and see when the judge charges the jury. But I believe the three options will be M1, M2 or Manslaughter.

 

[andreww]

Are both DM and MS serving 25 years for first murder? Do they have to serve the full 25 years? If MS is convicted of a lesser charge in this trial would it be added to the 25 years. If he is not convicted of M1 it is definite he will in future be released. DM is a lifer, like Barnardo because I am 99.9% sure he is going down in this case. Thank god to know he will never be out there free.

I believe 25 years is the minimum. After that he would have to apply for parole. But yes, assuming he is found not guilty here he could technically be released when he is about 47 i believe.

 

[winter2017]

I hope they will make public the outcome of the civil case the Bosma have and the ruling of the court about the transfer of DM s assets to his mother.
She is getting old and I wonder what happens when she dies and all her assets. I think she is even still getting paid for doing nothing, from the company the father started.
I think if DM is convicted it is a strong chance he will be in the death of the father. The inheritance he got from death of father will not go to him.
It would be good to see the money go to the Babcock family and Bosma family and also if the court rules the transfer of DM s assets to money illegal that most of the money goes to those families.
DM should be stripped of all money, so he is made to suffer more. I really hope that happens.

 

[bambam22]

Are both DM and MS serving 25 years for first murder? Do they have to serve the full 25 years? If MS is convicted of a lesser charge in this trial would it be added to the 25 years. If he is not convicted of M1 it is definite he will in future be released. DM is a lifer, like Barnardo because I am 99.9% sure he is going down in this case. Thank god to know he will never be out there free.

I don’tknow for sure, but I would imagine whatever sentence they get for this trialwould be added on to what they currently have

 

[andreww]

That said, if Smich wants to get out in 25 years he is going to need to take responsibility and admit to his part in TBs murder. He's going to have to be a model prisoner, take courses, work, and stay out of trouble. Somehow I don't see that guy doing that, so I won't hold my breath.