Baez - Just Lost The Trial

[Peepers]

How many times have we seen interviews with juries after the fact, and they say "yeah we thought the defendant did it, but the state didnt prove their case". It happens all the time.

 

[Mohabi]

Al-righty now. I have read entire thread so far.

Now I ask this question.

Where was CA? Sleeping???? Answer with expanded version I can envision JB telling: MY STORY ONLY .... JB it's plagiarism if you use any of this in your future tales. And yes, I will sue.

OK, let's say CA is sleeping. So GA somehow figures out Caylee is missing. Goes to ICA and whispers "Caylee's missing" and the two of them quietly as a mouse so not to wake CA or the dogs (side note, Yorkies are chatty little things, I have own them and they are NOT QUIET dogs) go on a room to room search. Lifting sofas, bed linens, open closet doors, kitchen cabinets, stereo cabinet doors, bathroom cabinets and shower curtains, Caylee's room, under the crib turned into toddler bed, in the closets ......... wait they couldn't go into the master bedroom and look to see if Caylee crawled into bed with CA or look in the master bathroom tub to see if Caylee was there because that would alert CA that no one had paid attention to Caylee in the early morning hours when she was supposed to be sleeping. Only CA has the ability to hear sleeping noises through closed doors.

So they creep through the patio door, feeding the dogs treats so they would keep quiet, and did a do-diligence search IN THE DARK without turning on lights so as not to alert CA but use a flashlight after bumbling around to find it. Gingerly ICA went to one side of the house, stubbed her toe and under her breath mumbled a TOS word. Meanwhile GA tiptoes over by the pool, which is by the master bedroom kicking the dogs to keep them quiet, shines the flashlight around the pool, thinks he sees something. Gets the ladder. Climbs in and finds Caylee climbs out. ICA appears and GA in a whisper says "look what you have done, your mother will blame you" so get rid of her. I'll take care of your mother in the morning when she leaves for work, DO NOT COME OUT OF YOUR ROOM. Keep Caylee with you or there will be trouble and you will go to jail. No one will believe your story. Only I can save you.

CA was at work.

 

[stmarysmead]

Remember when Cindy was accusing Jesse Grund?

So we are now to believe that Casey knew Caylee drowned but was allowing her family to smear an innocent man with a murder charge? It's simply stunning to think of all that has occurred ion the last three years and, if one believes Casey...she just sat in jail and let it happen.

She was not sitting in that cell with George controlling her...or the family demanding her silence. She was the "CEO."

But she sat there for three years because she wanted to save her story till she was facing a death penalty felony?

I guess if her home were on fire, she'd sit in bed, waiting... till the flames were at her door. Cause she is a victim....

 

[Soulmagent]

BBM

This questions isn't just to thedeviledadvocate, it's to anyone that can answer it. I don't get the significance in this. Does this mean that there wasn't decomp smell in the car at that time? George says it was overwhelming when he picked it up. Casey says in a text that the smell is there, and it smells like death. So I don't understand the need to plant doubt about the car smelling at this time (in the towyard.)

what date did she text amy about the death smell,

On the calander of days it says on the 17 of JUNE she was driving Toni jeep.

Where was her car? Also she had called GA again this day.

Here is June 17th 2008. Very interesting and Casey is upset this day and not using her car.
http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days-061708.htm

 

[hpvdr]

Yes, Yes, Yes Casey the victim - that's all she has ever cried about.

The way I see it Caylee, Cindy, George, Lee and anyone else that has ever known Casey are victims. The world is a much better place with Casey behind bars.

 

[fifteen89]

FWIW: The DT in the trial I served on did the same thing. The accused did end up testifying in his own defense.

Did the defendant in that case come with a set of circumstantial 'baggage' similar to Casey's? I think the Prosecution team, any one of them, would LOVE the chance to cross examine her.

 

[trafficsUP66]

Not to mention what he said about Lee

How he was taking into his father's footsteps, although it didn't go that far..
He says

"It got so bad that the FBI tested his DNA to see if he was Caylee's father"


Now, how the hell does it not go as far as George, but far enough that the FBI tests Lee's DNA, which suggests a hell of a lot more than what they were saying about George?

And when did Lee ever deny the allegations, and say that when the time is right he would talk about it?


And too, if George Anthony was walking around the yard with a dead child, I am so sure someone would have seen him. They sure seen Casey back her car into the garage!

Also, certainly all the "screaming" and "crying" of the two would have been heard by neighbor's. they may not have been able to see beyond the privacy fence but since they'd heard Casey screaming at her parent's inside the home before, they'd have heard george and her outside! That would have been remembered and reported once the "missing" story came out--specially with the date being known as the 16th.

Sorry if someone else brought this up--just trying to catch up on all of yesterday!

Hope this is brought up when neighbor's are testifying.

Also, hope they show the visitation video where she wants to know why Cindy is crying already--meanwhile Casey's actually LAUGHING at her distraught mother! And of course, her denial that Caylee drowned per the media reports--Casey shakes her head, rolls her eyes & says 'surprise, surprise'.

At the time, there was 'no body, no crime' most likely as per Baez.

Oh yeah, Caylee was dead and she cried and cried until what--two hours later go to the video store then spend two days in bed with her boyfriend without any change whatsoever? My child, the one I had an amazing relationship with, who loved me and I loved beyond this world, is dead and out to rot in the woods so lets have some sex and go to the bar???

If this jury buys any of this--i mean, she's showing all sorts of emotion in front of them NOW but NOTHING on that day and any day forward???

Yuh, he's lost this case on so many levels--so long as we have a common sense jury who sees that Caylee is the real VICTIM cuz it sure isn't Casey. (imo, Mallory showed more real pain and agony than MOTY)

 

[fifteen89]

I wonder if anyone will bring up the A's dogs. They had two, IIRC correctly Cindy said they followed Caylee eveywhere...where were the dogs when ICA and George were supposedly searching?

Good question!

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

BBM

This questions isn't just to thedeviledadvocate, it's to anyone that can answer it. I don't get the significance in this. Does this mean that there wasn't decomp smell in the car at that time? George says it was overwhelming when he picked it up. Casey says in a text that the smell is there, and it smells like death. So I don't understand the need to plant doubt about the car smelling at this time (in the towyard.)

It does not mean there was no horrendous odor in the car. There was. However, SB is very knowledgeable about the smell of human decomp in relation to a car. After finding the white trash bag, he then allowed the car with a terrible smell to be driven away. Under oath he said he would not allow a vehicle to leave his lot if it had evidence in it. This means he must have thought he had been mistaken about the odor of human decomp, and that it was instead the odor of rotten garbage, or he would never have let the car leave his lot. If he honestly believed it was the smell of human decomp, he would have called the police. If he still believed the odor was from human decomp, then it follows that he should have called the police because human decomp in the trunk of a car is almost certainly evidence of a crime.

In other words, JB was trying to raise reasonable doubt as to whether or not the horrendous smell was from human decomp or from trash. The testimonies stated they thought it was human decomp, but the witnesses actions were the actions that would have been taken if the odor was caused from trash.
As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[Doodlelover]

" using a murder story to cover an accident..."


actually, the story is, she accidentally drown. where is murder alluded?

imo only the state has called it murder?

ica old story was kidnapping, but the new story is bad daddy frightened her into saying that. right?

actually I love what you've proposed here. i get the point, that the story is so preposterous, it is by its nature unbelievable. especially compared to the so called truth that it was an accident.

I just don't see the "murder story to cover an accident..."

ica old story: kidnapping

jb new story:accident and they were just trying to hide the body, and the entire event, as if Caylee's disappearance from this earth would never be discovered. and dirty old Kronk somehow ("we'll never know how") got the body and tried to make money off it.


and somehow the idea that a former detective would try and hide an accidental drowning victim's body is just as outlandish as anything else, even a murder story to hide an accident. because noone is gonna believe that a former detective would believe they could pull that off. you don't just erase a child and get away with it.

what do you think?

Yes, I see what you mean.

When I say murder to cover an accident, I mean once they found Caylee's body with duct tape, it did look like murder and while it was never spoken outright, it was implied that Zanny was the murderer. Of course Jose was going to explain all of this to us at the trial and then we'd all understand. Ya right.

So technically, she is saying she tried to cover an accidental drowning with a kidnapping, you are right on that, but either way to cover an accident, which happens all the time and is totally believable to a nanny kidnapped and murdered the child (once Caylee was found we were supposed to believe that the nanny did it).

It's just bass akwards, KWIM?? It's sooo out there for a person to do that, never mind two seemly normal people to do it together. The odds of that are just too improbable. Especailly when there was no good reason to hide an accident. Were the two of them that scared of Cindy that they would go through all of this rather than say an accident happened.

Was their fear of Cindy that much greater than their love for Caylee? I don't think so, at least not for George.

 

[fifteen89]

JB wants the jury to believe that while ICA and GA were in the Anthony home, somehow this scenario occurred: Caylee Marie tiptoed thrru the house, slid open the patio door and then very quietly closed it behind her, stealthily crept over to the pool, climbed up the pool ladder which had miraculously been connected to the pool again...then Caylee Marie, knowing how careful her grandparents were with her and that pool, stood facing that deep expanse of water (remember how tiny she was) boldly jumped in anyway and silently drowned herself to free ICA who just didn't want her anymore but didn't want anyone else to have her. Leave it to ICA, who, fed up rotting in jail and only getting baloney sandwiches, consumed with jealousy and resentment, took almost three years to come up with this alibi....she would blame Caylee Marie for killing herself. ICA was so misled by her deteriorating brain cells, going nutz in her private cell, thought this clever concept would allow her to get away with murder. It could have been an almost perfect murder, but rage, acting in haste, (such a waste) and duct tape got in the way of ICA. All of this is really not her fault, of course.
(Sorry for all the run-on sentences - my brain just doesn't think in paragraphs and it is too old and worn to be trained. I know it was silly and childish to write this, but I just lost it and can't stand any more of this stupid waste of taxpayer's money.)

Karma is going to take care of ICA.

I've heard plenty of kids playing in and around pools - they are NEVER quiet. So would Caylee have screamed at the top of her lungs for help? Or would every ounce of adrenaline in her tiny little body have been spent on trying to breathe?

I'm definitely on karma's side.

 

[Tuffy]

It does not mean there was no horrendous odor in the car. There was. However, SB is very knowledgeable about the smell of human decomp in relation to a car. After finding the white trash bag, he then allowed the car with a terrible smell to be driven away. Under oath he said he would not allow a vehicle to leave his lot if it had evidence in it. This means he must have thought he had been mistaken about the odor of human decomp, and that it was instead the odor of rotten garbage, or he would never have let the car leave his lot. If he honestly believed it was the smell of human decomp, he would have called the police. If he still believed the odor was from human decomp, then it follows that he should have called the police because human decomp in the trunk of a car is almost certainly evidence of a crime.

In other words, JB was trying to raise reasonable doubt as to whether or not the horrendous smell was from human decomp or from trash. The testimonies stated they thought it was human decomp, but the witnesses actions were the actions that would have been taken if the odor was caused from trash.
As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

Even though they already admitted that Caylee was dead, and both George and Casey knew it? Why pretend that the odor wasn't death then? This is what I don't get. With the new theory that Caylee died at home, why bother with this?

 

[countzero]

CA was at work.

Thanks for the clarification of time.

Oh good grief, now it just goes to show ya when JB was spilling it from his lips I took early morning hours to be between 12Am - 6Am. not after 7am. Now it should make "cents" since it doesn't make dollars for JB. :twocents: JB needs to be specific if he wants to be believed. Nope, that won't work either.

 

[fifteen89]

Also, another question to ponder. Wouldn't the DT's "theory" make more sense if GA wasn't there? I could see it happening (for the sake of argument) when ICA was there alone - then she panics to hide the tragedy from CA and GA...but if GA was there, and CA was going to find out anyway...why hide the body? What would the point be of NOT calling 9-11??

Your JB quote in your sig says it all:
"When we have finally spoken, everyone, and I mean everyone, will sit back and say 'now I understand' 'that explains it'." -Jose Baez

You are correct, Mr. Baez. I understand completely. Your client is a complete liar.

 

[ami]

It does not mean there was no horrendous odor in the car. There was. However, SB is very knowledgeable about the smell of human decomp in relation to a car. After finding the white trash bag, he then allowed the car with a terrible smell to be driven away. Under oath he said he would not allow a vehicle to leave his lot if it had evidence in it. This means he must have thought he had been mistaken about the odor of human decomp, and that it was instead the odor of rotten garbage, or he would never have let the car leave his lot. If he honestly believed it was the smell of human decomp, he would have called the police. If he still believed the odor was from human decomp, then it follows that he should have called the police because human decomp in the trunk of a car is almost certainly evidence of a crime.

In other words, JB was trying to raise reasonable doubt as to whether or not the horrendous smell was from human decomp or from trash. The testimonies stated they thought it was human decomp, but the witnesses actions were the actions that would have been taken if the odor was caused from trash.
As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

BBM.

Didn't sound like he thought the odor was evidence in and of itself. It was a sign that evidence might be there - but upon opening the trunk he saw no evidence of a dead body. Therefore allowed the car to drive away. My guess -he knew the scent of human decay, but he was not a forensics expert so didn't consider the scent to be evidence. Not many people would. Evidence to the average joe means a body, a severed hand, blood spatters, a hunk of hair, etc. To a forensics expert it means a lot of things that are invisible to the naked eye - including scents and chemical residue. So I don't think it follows that your average joe would necessarily call the police because of a smell in someone else's car. (Also, maybe he was in denial of the horrible truth and living in Simon-World to deal with it?)

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

The psych evals? I suppose it was confirmed that Casey is a compulsive liar, and a whole lot of other stuff, and so they chose to explain her psychosis by blaiming the parents and especially George.

Have a look at Casey's expressions when she's talking to her lawyer

http://www.wftv.com/video/28057616/index.html

Why does Casey look so small in this video? Compare her height to Baez and the other gal. I think they have her chair lowered to make her look more child like.

 

[Tuffy]

Yes, I see what you mean.

When I say murder to cover an accident, I mean once they found Caylee's body with duct tape, it did look like murder and while it was never spoken outright, it was implied that Zanny was the murderer. Of course Jose was going to explain all of this to us at the trial and then we'd all understand. Ya right.

So technically, she is saying she tried to cover an accidental drowning with a kidnapping, you are right on that, but either way to cover an accident, which happens all the time and is totally believable to a nanny kidnapped and murdered the child (once Caylee was found we were supposed to believe that the nanny did it).

It's just bass akwards, KWIM?? It's sooo out there for a person to do that, never mind two seemly normal people to do it together. The odds of that are just too improbable. Especailly when there was no good reason to hide an accident. Were the two of them that scared of Cindy that they would go through all of this rather than say an accident happened.

Was their fear of Cindy that much greater than their love for Caylee? I don't think so, at least not for George.

I know exactly what you mean Doodlelover! It doesn't make sense at all. Supposedly, the drowning happened on George's watch. It's an accident that Jose himself admits happens all the time in Florida. They wouldn't get in trouble with the law, just Cindy. But by not reporting it, and trying to cover up that she had even died, they risk getting in trouble with both!

If I were on the jury, I would call shenanigans on the whole convoluted story the Defense is trying to serve up!

OT- I love Doodles too! Your's in the avatar pic is adorable!

 

[fifteen89]

I am figuring that, in this internet age, he will be quite finished after this case. Even potential clients who themselves have not first hand seen accounts of his bumbling off towards an abyss to plummet into, will have people around them that have, and may warn the potential client.

Besides, I have this notion that, after this trial, Baez will get embroiled in a huge aftermath. I think Casey will sue him, as will her parents. Roy Kronk even may, depending how this all still pans out....

I rather feel for Baez next of kin, who will be feeling the fallout as well. Socio-economically I mean. Ripple-effects can carry far.

Didn't someone in jail recommend JB to Casey? LOL I might take that as a not-so-good reference!!

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Even though they already admitted that Caylee was dead, and both George and Casey knew it? Why pretend that the odor wasn't death then? This is what I don't get. With the new theory that Caylee died at home, why bother with this?

The defense has to try to raise reasonable doubt to as many parts of the prosecutions case as possible. Just as the state has built a mountain of circumstantial evidence, the defense will try to raise reasonable doubt with as much of this mountain as they can.

The smell in the trunk will be brought in over and over in the states case, so anything the defense can do to raise reasonable doubt on this part of the evidence is significant.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[affinity]

A juror who has experienced sexual abuse within the family might agree with Baez' assertions that incest made KC "go crazy". How many jurors would have this capacity to recognize pathology and after affects based on abuse? (Possibly the juror who is a counselor, but still, what an uphill battle to fully explain it to the others).

The important thing is that they (even a sympathetic juror) won't give her a pass for Caylee's "accidental" death. KC could had been a sex slave held in capitivity (which, of course, she wasn't) and they still won't say..... "Oh, OK...THAT explains it, ok!"

The defense team undoubtedly scanned the best bits (most favorable to them) on all the discussion groups and now they have put the most "controversial" issues into a stew for the jurors. I predict Jose Baez is going to go down for all this in a big way.